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WACO YMF

Old 03-05-2010, 04:09 AM
  #10426
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ORIGINAL: aminiet

Ken.

I promised my wife I wasn't going to build another one. What's available?
Janelle asked me when I was going to buy a few more kits.

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Old 03-05-2010, 11:32 AM
  #10427
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Default RE: WACO YMF

On the Pica Waco, where the fuselage meets the trailing edge of the vertical stab,there seems to be a big step. What's the best way to make this a little bit more scale looking? The full size doesn't seem to have this problem.

Bob: WB #160
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Old 03-05-2010, 12:27 PM
  #10428
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Gunner,

Are you talking about the vertical post? As the stringers come to the rear they land on F-44 (Tail End Joiner) and are capped by F-45 (Tail End Cap) which is then sanded to blend (tapered) with the stringers and is the same thickness as V-8 (the Rudder Leading Edge). Look at the Fuselage Plan View of the 1990 plans under the rudder side view and just in front of the elevator top view.

If you are talking about the horizontal joint from F-13 back, that is covered with a fairing on the full size. The Pica uses V-4 to simulate the fairing and it has to be sanded to shape. It should be a little taller as the full size fairing starts a little higher on the Vertical Fin.

P1 - Tail group of YMF NC 14081
P2 - Fairing on YKS NC 17457 rear view (same tail group, the fuselage is a cabin so it is slightly different than the YMF)
P3 - Fairing on YKS NC 17457 side view
P4 - Closer picture of the fairing on YMF NC 14081
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Old 03-06-2010, 02:37 PM
  #10429
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Thanks,John. I guess I made F-45 a little too wide because it only matches the rudder thickness at the very edge. Forward of that, it is wider than V-4. Maybe I can make another fairing between the vert stab and the horizontal stab to help match the shape of F-45.
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Old 03-06-2010, 06:44 PM
  #10430
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Just curious, approximately what is one of the 1/5 scale pica waco ymf kits unopend untouched in the box worth these days? Are they sort of valueable or not?
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Old 03-07-2010, 04:06 AM
  #10431
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ORIGINAL: davidgeorge212

Just curious, approximately what is one of the 1/5 scale pica waco ymf kits unopend untouched in the box worth these days? Are they sort of valueable or not?
That depends. Are you talking about the box with the Blue and Cream Waco, or the box with the Red and white Waco? Either way, we have kind of hurt the values of these kits, since you can now build your own. Sorry bout that, but the kits were getting up into the four hundred dollar range, and they won't ever be really worth that. The last new one that I saw in the LHS was $185.00.

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Old 03-07-2010, 09:52 AM
  #10432
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Bill,

I have a question about some plans I have. I have been trying to find one of the 1/5 kits and they are just a bit beyond what I want to spend right now, and I may go ahead and get the plans for it from AMA, but in the meantime, I have a set of plans for a UPF drawn by Jerry Behrens. They look ok, but don't look quite right to me. I am not proficient in the scale outlines like you and some of the others here, so I was wondering if anyone here might have checked them out in the past. These are 90" WS I think. Thanks in advance!
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Old 03-07-2010, 09:59 AM
  #10433
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I just picked one up at perry this weekend and thats about what I payed for it It is the one with the blue and cream colored waco on it. I payed a little more actually but thats because he threw in an aftermarket fiberglass cowl and a wheel pants. Im not in to buying and selling kits or anything but I do love building and everyone seems to like the pica. I am happy that I found one and cant wait to build it.

Oh and I did find the websight where you posted the plans up on pdf for the 1/5 and 1/6 scale which look pretty nice. I might use those plans and keep the kit in tact. maybe maybe not.
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Old 03-07-2010, 10:36 AM
  #10434
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David,

The house of Moy site http://www.houseofmoy.com/waco/ plans are good to have as reference. The 1/5th plans on the HoM site are the older 3 page plan set (no date) and have some templates and stuff that were left off the newer plans (1990) that the AMA has. The newer plans are 2 pages and have the tail wheel located in the scale location.

You can download the plans and take them to Kinko’s or similar, get them printed out (check dimensions) and end up paying about what you would if you order the plan set (#35406) and templates (be sure to ask for them) from the AMA. The bonus with the AMA is that you don’t have to run around going to the store, wasting gas and time, they get delivered right to your door.
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Old 03-07-2010, 11:40 AM
  #10435
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George,

I have the same plans in my flies and I think they were based on the Paul Matt drawings. The first thing I noticed was the use of a lot of pine blocks in the construction and the use of a built up box spar (which I like). Laminated wing tip, stab, vertical fin and rudder outlines are also nice. Some weight can be saved by careful examination of the construction.

Suggest getting a copy of the Nicholas Karstens UPF-7 drawings form the Bob Banka site http://www.bobsairdoc.com/ . The 3 view is S-6 2821 Waco UPF-7. I think they are just a bit more accurate than the PM drawings and use them to modify the fuselage formers and other things.

There are some minor problems in the fuselage cross sections that can be easily corrected using the NK drawings to modify the fuselage formers. The fuselage is kind of weird in that just before the vertical fin it becomes almost square and ends up with the horizontal stab almost sitting on top of the fuse. From the side the fuselage looks a little sway backed compared to the YMF IMHO.

The wings do not show the sheeting around the wing tip, neither do the PM drawings. The wing tips from the forward view are pretty good but could be raised about 3/32” from what is shown on the plans. The plans also show the military notch in the top wing which is the most common version, but there are a few with the shallow curve notch over the forward cockpit (civilian version). Just as a reminder, the top wing is flat (no dihedral) and the bottom wing has 2° on each side. The lower wing incidence is confusing on the Jerry B plans.

The horizontal stab and vertical fin/rudder are quite thick compared to the YMF and the cross sections are not shown on the plans. The NK drawings show the cross sections as a separate drawing, the PM show the cross section on the fuse side view.

The landing gear is close but not scale. I believe JB built this as a sport scale plane and not as a scale competitor.

You might also get some photos from Bob Banka or I have photos of about 10 different UPF with detail shots. PM me for more info on my photos.
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Old 03-07-2010, 08:59 PM
  #10436
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Default RE: WACO YMF


Quote:
ORIGINAL: georgewaldrop

Bill,

I have a question about some plans I have. I have been trying to find one of the 1/5 kits and they are just a bit beyond what I want to spend right now, and I may go ahead and get the plans for it from AMA, but in the meantime, I have a set of plans for a UPF drawn by Jerry Behrens. They look ok, but don't look quite right to me. I am not proficient in the scale outlines like you and some of the others here, so I was wondering if anyone here might have checked them out in the past. These are 90'' WS I think. Thanks in advance!
George,

Up until now, I don't think that there have been any accurate plans or drawings for any Waco, other than some that were languishing in someone's desk. That's all changing, and pretty soon, I believe that there will be a few viable Scale plans available.

Bill, Waco Brother #1
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Old 03-07-2010, 09:06 PM
  #10437
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Default RE: WACO YMF

What was the main difference between the blue and cream kit and the red and white kit
[quote]ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder


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ORIGINAL: davidgeorge212

That depends. Are you talking about the box with the Blue and Cream Waco, or the box with the Red and white Waco?

Bill, Waco Brother #1
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Old 03-07-2010, 10:30 PM
  #10438
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I believe the Blue and Yellow box is PRE 1990 and the White and Red Trim boxtop was 1990 and later. Not 100% certain on this though, Stickbuilder would know for sure but I think this may be close.
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Old 03-07-2010, 10:53 PM
  #10439
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Here's the list of kits I have:

BUSA 1/4 Fokker D-VII I have two German Aces of Iron pilots (unpainted); your choice of either "Hans" or "Richt" goes with the kit. Both are discontinued. I'll take $275 for the plane and pilot. BUSA's price on the plane is $313.95

BUSA 1/4 Nieuport 11 BUSA price $211.95, I'll take $175

BUSA 1/4 J-3 BUSA price $180. I'll take $150 for it. I have the BUSA plans to build it as a L-4, and a discontinued dummy engine kit. I'll sell all of it for $170.

BUSA 1/4 SPAD XIII BUSA price $365. I have two Aces of Iron "Eddie"s, one painted and one unpainted, your choice (see painted one below) I also have a pair of BUSA Vickers gun kits (BUSA price, $22.25 ea.), and a set of DuBro scale wheels. All of it for $325.

FunAero 1/5 SE-5a $115, don't know the mfg price, I think it was around $150

Buyer pays shipping on all deals
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Old 03-07-2010, 11:15 PM
  #10440
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Quote:
ORIGINAL: skylarkmk1
George,

I have the same plans in my flies and I think they were based on the Paul Matt drawings. The first thing I noticed was the use of a lot of pine blocks in the construction and the use of a built up box spar (which I like). Laminated wing tip, stab, vertical fin and rudder outlines are also nice. Some weight can be saved by careful examination of the construction.

Suggest getting a copy of the Nicholas Karstens UPF-7 drawings form the Bob Banka site http://www.bobsairdoc.com/ . The 3 view is S-6 2821 Waco UPF-7. I think they are just a bit more accurate than the PM drawings and use them to modify the fuselage formers and other things.

There are some minor problems in the fuselage cross sections that can be easily corrected using the NK drawings to modify the fuselage formers. The fuselage is kind of weird in that just before the vertical fin it becomes almost square and ends up with the horizontal stab almost sitting on top of the fuse. From the side the fuselage looks a little sway backed compared to the YMF IMHO.

The wings do not show the sheeting around the wing tip, neither do the PM drawings. The wing tips from the forward view are pretty good but could be raised about 3/32” from what is shown on the plans. The plans also show the military notch in the top wing which is the most common version, but there are a few with the shallow curve notch over the forward cockpit (civilian version). Just as a reminder, the top wing is flat (no dihedral) and the bottom wing has 2° on each side. The lower wing incidence is confusing on the Jerry B plans.

The horizontal stab and vertical fin/rudder are quite thick compared to the YMF and the cross sections are not shown on the plans. The NK drawings show the cross sections as a separate drawing, the PM show the cross section on the fuse side view.

The landing gear is close but not scale. I believe JB built this as a sport scale plane and not as a scale competitor.

You might also get some photos from Bob Banka or I have photos of about 10 different UPF with detail shots. PM me for more info on my photos.
Quote:
ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder
Quote:
ORIGINAL: georgewaldrop
Bill,

I have a question about some plans I have. I have been trying to find one of the 1/5 kits and they are just a bit beyond what I want to spend right now, and I may go ahead and get the plans for it from AMA, but in the meantime, I have a set of plans for a UPF drawn by Jerry Behrens. They look ok, but don't look quite right to me. I am not proficient in the scale outlines like you and some of the others here, so I was wondering if anyone here might have checked them out in the past. These are 90'' WS I think. Thanks in advance!
George,

Up until now, I don't think that there have been any accurate plans or drawings for any Waco, other than some that were languishing in someone's desk. That's all changing, and pretty soon, I believe that there will be a few viable Scale plans available.

Bill, Waco Brother #1
John & Bill,

Thanks for the responses! This is what I like about the Brotherhood and this thread. I am not a competition level builder, never have been, and likely won't be for some time to come, but I am more interested in getting there than I have been in the past. That said, I appreciate the comments/cautions about the inconsistencies from scale of the various kits and plans sets out there. I love bipes and round engines, and I prefer giant scale modeling, so I have been looking for larger kits and/or plans for a YMF in particular and I like the UPF and YKS as well. I happened on these large scale UPF plans and decided to grab them while they were available. John, I will definitely be shooting you a PM regarding the pics you have available, and checking with Bob Banka for the more accurate 3-views you mention.

Bill, I am VERY interested in the accurate large scale plans you mention may be coming soon. I really appreciate all I have learned from so many of you guys here. I hope to do a really nice [sport] scale model and learn from the process, then maybe later build a viable competition model.

I have quite a few larger biplane plans/kits/projects to build, so I hope I can get a good start this summer/fall. As I have mentioned in previous posts, I returned to modeling after a 20+ yr departure only this past fall and have been sorting old projects and supplies I had rat holed and still had packed away. I am getting close to having most of it sorted out and back where I can work on my models without moving everything out first. My first project will be to finish some of the partially completed stuff in my shop or sell it to make room, and get funds, for more important projects. Among the projects I want to complete and keep, I have a partially framed StarDuster Too from the old RCKits (Bob Campbell) kit at 1/3.8 scale I believe (90+ inches) plus these Behrens plans for the 90" UPF, and hopefully the true scale YMF plans Bill mentioned...otherwise, probably the Pica 1/5th. Like many other modelers, I have more plans/kits in inventory than I will ever have time or money to complete, but I will never run out of nice planes to build!

Thanks again for the info guys, and Bill, please let me know when those more accurate Waco plans become available...John, expect a PM soon.
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Old 03-08-2010, 05:28 AM
  #10441
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: Neil K

I believe the Blue and Yellow box is PRE 1990 and the White and Red Trim boxtop was 1990 and later. Not 100% certain on this though, Stickbuilder would know for sure but I think this may be close.
The Blue/Yellow kit has an extra page of plans, with the sheeting templates, ABS Cowl parts, aileron sheeting (not correct) and fuel tank sheeting (also incorrect). The Red/White kit loses a page of plan, also has many ABS parts that the other kit does not have. I can't say about the dates for sure, but it is generally accepted that these dates are about right.

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Old 03-08-2010, 02:41 PM
  #10442
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Hello all

Just getting over this nasty FL cold/flu and starting to feel better. I worked the FL Jet show Saturday they had two jets doing 3d flying even hovering that was a sight but the jets just don’t do it for me. I’m hoping to take my Waco out this week and do some taxiing around and see how well the tail wheel works I may even work the nerve up to let the tail wheel come up.
On another note I’ve been reading about vacuum molding table on the web and thinking about building one. They don’t look too complicated and would be pretty inexpensive to make. I was wondering if I could make the aileron skins out of plastic. Has any one tried this and do you think it would work? I haven’t found a source for the plastic yet but I’m sure it’s out there.
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Old 03-08-2010, 03:47 PM
  #10443
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Hi Dan,

in my kit there are glass fiber ailerons with all the corugations. So this will work but you will need a mould to do so.

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Old 03-08-2010, 05:28 PM
  #10444
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Hi Dan,

in my kit there are glass fiber ailerons with all the corugations. So this will work but you will need a mould to do so.

Peter
Peter,

The Pica kits have the corrugated aileron covers too, but they don't have the correct corrugation spacing or count. These are the fifth scale (72" span models). You would probably have a ready market if you offered them in the correct size and spacing for these.

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Old 03-08-2010, 05:39 PM
  #10445
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Dan-Have you tried getting the corregated plastic from Sig? They make (or did make) 3 styles with one that has very close spacing to scale. Perhaps they could be used for a mold!
Check out Page #151 - Post #3753 for full details. I used the 404A and was able to paste the little bit extra that was needed - on to the tips. Can't see them!! Good luck!
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Old 03-08-2010, 06:06 PM
  #10446
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Jim,
I used the Sig on my 1/4 Pepino Waco and I believe I bought the last of the sheets that Sig had to offer as 2 weeks later another guy I know went to buy some and they were no longer available.
Anthony
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Old 03-08-2010, 11:26 PM
  #10447
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Jim,
I used the Sig on my 1/4 Pepino Waco and I believe I bought the last of the sheets that Sig had to offer as 2 weeks later another guy I know went to buy some and they were no longer available.
Anthony
Well that's a bummer!!
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Old 03-09-2010, 12:31 AM
  #10448
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I was thinking I would make another one out of aluminum to use for a mold. The ones I made for mine was a lot of time and work once there painted I don’t think you could tell the difference between the aluminum and plastic. I thought if it would work it would save a lot of time and be kind of fun too.
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Old 03-09-2010, 01:12 AM
  #10449
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You could always cover the plastic with Flite-Metal for the aluminum look. Polish it up and they could be used on a model of UPF N 620AM. Yep, he polished his ailerons instead of painting them. See picture.
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Old 03-09-2010, 08:18 AM
  #10450
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WOW they look good
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