jn4dflyer

My Feedback: (1)

John, is it a fiberglass sheet that is bonded from the leading edge to the forward spar, inboard of the wingtip bow sheeting? I think that may be where he got confused. In your third photo it looks like fabric was strecthed over the leading edge which would leave the ribs showing through the fabric. Fiberglass sheet would hold the leading edge smooth but still look like fabric in the photo. Just food for thought

Larry

themaj

I've been looking for the right covering for my 1/3 Barth project am seriously considering using the Stits Poly Fiber system. Has any one here tried it? It is the same system as used on full size aircraft except the have a special light weight version of the fabric for model aircraft.

http://www.stits.com/pfdocuments/stits.html

Let me know what you think

Jim

mogman

Hi Jim.

I used the Stitts system....easy to apply, use the poly-tone paint etc. Works great.

Go back to page 531....the big green machine

Cheers,
Dave.
W/B #180

mrdhud

My Feedback: (48)

Hello all,

I guess I was confused I see now from all the pictures there’s nothing over the sheeting but the covering so I won’t be doing it that way.

Jim,

I believe Robert used the stits system and loved it. I’m sure he will give you his opinion.

themaj

mogman

Thanks for the Poly-Fiber comment...Looked at your WACO...looks great! Hope that pilot is not smoking in flight!

Jim

acerc

Jim, I used the stits system and would highly recommend it. Very user friendly. The only thing that I varied from was the fabric adhesive for applying the fabric (poly-tak). I used Sig's stix it, more user friendly and more control able. All the paint covered real well. And when they sayspray ready they mean it, very nice flow from a detail gun on 25lbs. Two coats was all I used and could have got by with just one.

Page 534 post 13350 is mine.

Anyway, give it a shot.

Stickbuilder

The wing in the photo is from a YKS. Is everyone sure that the YMF/UMF uses the same method? I seem to recall seeing the rib on my Grandfather's YMF. Its been years, but I think the ribs showed all the way to the Leading Edge.

Bill, Waco Brother #1

pimmnz

I know the UPF has a smooth leading edge, and the same wings are used on the Y/UMF...
Evan.

skylarkmk1

Dan, Bill, Larry, and everybody,

Yes the wing pictured is from a YKS but the construction is the same as the YMF, only some dimensions are different. The leading edge is covered with aluminum from the top edge of the forward spar around to the bottom edge of the forward spar. The tip sheeting is 1/8" plywood from the last W-6 to the tip and curved to blend the tip.

P1 - Landing lights on 1987 YMF NC 14081. Look at the rib stitching on either side, it stops at the leading edge sheeting and just the tapes continue to the leading edge. The fabric sag between the ribs also stops at the sheeting due to the spar supporting the rear edge of the sheeting.

P2 - 1934 YMF NC 14031, the Platt, Pica and Matt subject Waco. No rib ripples in the leading edge otherwise the reflection would be distorted.

P3 - 1934 YMF NC 14031 close up of the strut fitting, again the rib stitching goes only as far as the sheeting with the tapes going forward.

P4 – 1987 YMF NC 14081, view from the rear of the lower wing, you can see the leading edge where the sheeting is and how the rib stitching stops at that point.

Bill - I will concede that from certain angles from the rear, especially from a low angle, it may look like the ribs go all the way forward due to the narrow sheeting on the leading edge (kids height line of sight)

jn4dflyer

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks John I knew you would set us right.

Larry

LesUyeda

Picture #2 looks just like one that modeled some years ago:-))))))))))))))

Les

skylarkmk1

pimmnz,

The UPF wing while using the same basic construction is a bit different. The top wing is flat with no dihedral and is still a three piece wing (left, center and right panels). The bottom wing has 2° dihedral in each panel. The plywood sheeting as seen on the YKS wing is continued around the inside of the wing tip, top and bottom, about 8-10� or more wide and ends at the aileron spar (Waco Joe can give us the specs). It also incorporates a hand hold in the wing tip.

P1 – aileron and tip of UPF-7 NC 620AM. You can just see the sheeting under the covering at the far end of the aileron.

P2 – underside of the lower wing tip on UPF NC 173E. You can see the outline of the sheeting to the right of the tip and also the hand hold.

skylarkmk1

Les,

Nicely done. If you followed the plans and used the decals, you got the original version of NC 14031 owned by Patterson.

During the last restoration, the personnal markings (the name, bird decal and tri-angle decals) were not put back on. Also the cockpit combing was left off (never got around to puting it on). The cockpit interior was originaly two shades of red fabricoid and is now blue leather. The blue leather was ordered from info on the Paul Matt drawings (an error on P.Matts part) and after recieving the original specs, it was discovered that it was originally red from the factory. NC 14031 left the factory with a Jacobs engine but this was changed (the owner believes) in the late 60s (1968) to a Continental engine. The Jacobs is a bit larger in diameter than the Continental, so with some creative mounting, NC 14031 has an original Jacobs Cowl (even bumps) over a Continental engine.

pimmnz

Thanks Skylark, I did know that, I was jus' pointin' out that, in typical Waco fashion, if'n you take a bit of this, an' a bit o' that, stir it up the wheels from over there, you can add another Waco type to the mix...well, almost...
Just wondering, I wonder if the handholds on the lower UPF wings were done because of its military background, you know, assisting ab-initios' around the field...perhaps the Y/UMFs don't have them as they are supposed to be driven by Sportsmen Pilots who don't need wingtip assistance? Just wondering...
Evan, WB #12.

skylarkmk1

pimmnz,

I have no idea why the hand holds were incorpoarted. To assist with manouvering the planes in the parking areas would be my guess. I have not seen them use at the fly ins, just hard points like the struts. Here a a couple more photos.

P1 - UPF NC 32032, winner of the most authenticaly restored PT-14 (UPF military trainer) at Oshkosh. Photo shows the door, Zinc Chromate paint and the aluminum leading edge (note where the rib stiching stops).

P2 - UPF NC 32032 aileron and wing tip, you can see the sheeting outline throught the coveing.

P3 - UPF NC 32032 wing tip hand hold, you can just see where the sheeting runs by the rib stitching.

Stickbuilder

A little off topic, but yesterday I bought one of my Grandsons (and I have 8 of them and 3 Granddaughters) a ParkZone Super Cub, with the float set. We flew it this morning, and he is hooked. One of the girls is too. This little thing is a blast to fly. It is only 3 channel and brings back the old days to me. Maybe I've been a little wrong about electrics and ARF's..............Naah.

Bill, Waco Brother #1

airplanegeek

Well group....after 6 months of setting in the workshop looking pretty and making its appearance with the full scale aircraft at 2 fly-ins I finially musterd up the courage to go fly my 1/5th waco

IT FLEW GREAT. Two flights today. Each one succesful. Saito 150 is still being tempermental and I am seriously considering a glow driver for the peace of mind it would bring. Right now I am flying with a 16x8 which seems very adequate. I am carrying a tad up elevator so I will begin the process of removing some of the pound and a half of lead on the nose (YEAHHHH) a little at a time until she is trimmed neutral.

I cannot beleive how squirly she is on takeoff and landing. My great planes skybolt tracks much better than this aircraft. I guess that it really does take after the full size machine! I was surprised how much alike the waco and skybolt are in flight. The Waco really puts on a nice show.

I hope to post video soon ( a fellow club member captured it but did not email me yet)

airplanegeek

I forgot to update my success/failure with the iron bay requlator. After multiple attempts to figure out why it was introducing air into the fuel line I gave up on it. after so much jerking around i got fed up and moved the fuel tank below the tank box which has solved the siphoning issue I was having. Now I am not so certain that the tank is not to low. When low on fuel the carb losses prime, so......arrgghh. This could be the source of it not idleing after a ten minute flight or so. Several people at the field love this engine but i am still not sold. Love the sound but the reliabilty of the zenoah is looking more attractive.

mrdhud

My Feedback: (48)

airplanegeek

Congratulations on flying your Waco looking forward in seeing the video.

pimmnz

Airplanegeek, just a word of warning, you cannot 'trim out ' the elevator trim by shifting the balance back. Balance is speed/pitch stability, nothing to do with the elevator trim required to maintain the wing(s) at an AOA to fly. Set the balance at 25 to 28% MAC as described in these forums, and LEAVE IT THERE. Moving it back to trim out the elevator setting can seriously damage your model. This is where Bill's adjustable tailplane comes to the fore. He can now adjust the whole tailplane/elevator to get the best position for his cruise trim. If you cannot do this then you must use elevator trim, and be happy with wherever it ends up. In the full size world, the pilot learns the nemonic PAT, meaning Power, Attitude, Trim. At the top of the climb you reduce power to cruise RPM, push the stick forward until the horizon is in the correct place, wait for the speed and RPM to stabilise, then Trim away the control forces so that the airplane continues to fly at a speed and altitude you want with no stick forces being held. This cannot be done with a model, but you can select a nice throttle setting to fly at your 'cruise' speed, then trim to maintain altitude. This is all independant of balance. The balance is selected to allow the pilot and model to do this without the model changing attitude/speed by itself, in other words, a stable balance position. Many flights, by many people with many Wacos has resulted in the balance position as stated. If you have enough elevator to flare for landing, then leave the balance as it is.
Evan, WB #12.

airplanegeek

Evan,

thank you for the reply. I am well aware that it is impossible to correct an improperly trimmed aircraft with weight and balance alone. I am fortunate enough to be a full scale pilot with 25+ hours in a full scale YMF, so I am well aware of its handling peculiarities.

What I will be doing is moving the cg aft (with-in a reasonable envelope) to alleviate as much as possible the up trim I am presently carrying. The relationship between the two certainly is not completely linear forever. At some point you fall outside the cg range and ...surprise....the aircraft is uncontrollable.

The good news is, I started nice and nose heavy and can work from there. One mistake I think modelers make is that they balance to the cg on the plans and that’s where they stop. In actuality all aircraft have an envelope, just as you described in which the cg can be located.

acerc

Congrats airplanegeek on the maiden. FYI, I have the adjustable stab and love it. It has two position's of use for me, in flight around 3.5degs( that's where it worked out to for no trim up or down) and down to 2degs for landing. Mine is slightly tail heavy, took 20oz on the nose to balance but did'nt like how it flew so dropped to 10oz and still did'nt like it so its gone. Whatever 20oz on the nose equates out to the tail is how tail heavy it is. And I agree with you it's a bit touchy on the take-off.

Jim Henley

Hello All, I have not posted for a while, here is where the 1/5th scale is as of today. I have been working on the aileron slave rods, I used the same method that Aminiet used on his plane. See page 500. Picture 1 is the turnbuckle I used for the rod ends, and the attach points that I made from square brass tube. Picture 2 is a shot of the rivet detail on the aileron, the rest are self explanitory.

Jim Henley

Attached are some shots of the navigation lights and the landing lights.

acerc

Very nice Jim.