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Thread: WACO YMF


  1. #1376
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    RE: WACO YMF

    I would say you are probably right. My ribs have a normal leading edge radius instead of a long gradual one tapering back. But if I have all the covering stripped off I have the one time option of making a solid leading edge. Something I want to think about.
    ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder

    Ron,

    I start the rib profile change for about the forward 1/3rd of the rib. Your experience may have to do with having an abrupt change ot airfoil cross section. My finished model looks about like the full scale. This may explain your unhappiness with the sag between the ribs. As to my not liking iron-on...I started this hobby too many years age. I don't know how to use it.

    Bill, AMA 4720
    WACO Brotherhood #1
    If you love to build you have to pay the price
    Waco Brother #7

  2. #1377

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Ron's post brought to mind another difference between the ARF and original kit. Both the vertcal and horizontal stab on the ARF is stickbuilt, rather than a slab with raised ribs. Maybe the older YMF's had an airfoiled tail like the UPF and AQC among others, but the newer Classic is flat, top and bottom, just a taper from front to rear on the elevators. Building up the leading edge a little might help flatten out the forward portion of the stab. The way the ARF's tail is made more closely mimics the Classic when it is covered.

    And Master Chief, I'll quit. I was helping my daughter look up some music and saw the pics, just couldn't resist; however, I can't place the poster you mentioned; go ahead, bring it out, I can take it

    Oh, Ron, thanks for the compliment on my prop. It is just for display, but the plane will get a lot of flying, all the way to it's expiration date, which I hope is past my own
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    Club Saito #2, WACO Brotherhood #20. What other trouble can I get into?

  3. #1378

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Ron,
    Way back toward the begining of this thread, a post was sent, suggesting that one could laminate a couple of 1/8 X16 stock to the front edge and then bevel that to a semi circle to simulate the tube that the full scale used for the L.E. I am not that far with mine but it is something I may try, to see how it works. It seems to me that if the L.E. was just rounded and the ribs were to blend into the L.E. it might be scale looking but still have a little more shape than you would get trying to adhere your covering to the slab and rib pieces.
    You may wish to page back to the begining pages and take a look at that post, it may help you make up your mind.
    Jim,
    WACO Brotherhood #3, AMA 816592, IMAA 41683,

  4. #1379
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    RE: WACO YMF

    It is the one of the old toothless air crew member with the bucket helmet from the B-47 days. He needs a shave, and the caption is Sleep well tonight the Air Force is Awake. I'll have to find it, but you so richly deserve it.

    Bill, AMA 4720
    WACO Brotherhood #1
    Its easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesnt look like an airplane.

  5. #1380
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    RE: WACO YMF

    Those edges look good. Mine look really ugly. I should post a picture tonight of my leading edges[:'(]. Maybe I did not sand the ribs far enough back. In any event, I have to change my stab and fin.
    I do not think I will ever get into scale detail. Unfortunatly I crash my airplanes from time to time because I fly them to death. I use iron on covering and simple detail to expedite quick repairs. I can not speak for you fellows, but the guys who show up at our field with highly scaled planes fly them once or twice a year and mostly let them be show pieces on the ground. Some scale jobs I see at the field once every three years and I know I am not missing them because I am at the field most all the time. From club meets I have seen many scale projects shown off that never see the flying field. I do enjoy looking at them. People do beautiful work that is a reward in itself. That prop a few threads back was a work of art. I would be surprised if he is going to fuel and fly that plane four times a saturday though. I have been flying for 30 years and if I cannot fly crash free by now I probably never will.
    Fortunately, this is a hobby for everyone and everyone has their place in it. If not for the Scale guys, and their so-called 'hanger queens', many would have nothing to shoot for in detailing or building their week-end flyers. If not for the 'gotta-get-to-the-field-and fly-at-all-costs' guys most hobby shops would be boarded up. I get a lot of personal satisfaction in modifying an ARF, a kit or a scratch built project. I do not fret over make believe rivets or how many pieces of pinking tape a panel has. I do, however, always take a plane to the field that is presentable, safe and as trouble free as I can make it. To build an airplane like the WACO takes a considerable amount of time and in some form or fashion fills a need.........it rewards us with a sense of accomplishment. To finish it this way or that is of no consequence. We (modelers) build, operate, finish and fly our birds to the degree in which we are comfortable. No more, no less. What matters is that we enjoy what we do with our spare time, agree to disagree and keep information flowing so all can decide what's right for themselves.
    Everybody knows you can\'\'t make a time machine out of a Tilt-A-Whirl.........-:WACO Brotherhood 25:-

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    RE: WACO YMF


    ORIGINAL: damifino

    What matters is that we enjoy what we do with our spare time,
    What spare time? I'm always busy working on my airplanes
    Club Saito #2, WACO Brotherhood #20. What other trouble can I get into?

  7. #1382
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    RE: WACO YMF

    If I don't get 4 flights in when I go flyin' I'm disappointed. And I take only one plane at a time.

    Cut and fitted the brass pivot tube and sleeve for the WACO's H-stab last night.

    Here's an ARF I modified and detailed-
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    Everybody knows you can\'\'t make a time machine out of a Tilt-A-Whirl.........-:WACO Brotherhood 25:-

  8. #1383
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    RE: WACO YMF

    deleted.
    Its easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesnt look like an airplane.

  9. #1384
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    RE: WACO YMF

    What's up STICKBUILDER? Let's hear it, spit it out!
    Everybody knows you can\'\'t make a time machine out of a Tilt-A-Whirl.........-:WACO Brotherhood 25:-

  10. #1385
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    RE: WACO YMF

    Naah, It was just another dig at Ken and the Air Farce, oops...make that Hair Force,...errrr, Air Scouts.....Aw Phooey. U.S. Army Air Corpse...Awwww, you know what I mean...

    Bill, AMA 4720
    WACO Brotherhood #1
    Its easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesnt look like an airplane.

  11. #1386

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    RE: WACO YMF

    ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder

    Naah, It was just another dig at Ken and the Air Farce, oops...make that Hair Force,...errrr, Air Scouts.....Aw Phooey. U.S. Army Air Corpse...Awwww, you know what I mean...

    Bill, AMA 4720
    WACO Brotherhood #1
    You mean the USELESS AIR FARCE? Come on, I can take it; I can dish it out, too

    Makin' a little progress , here is my "luggage compartment" behind the cockpit, roughed in with switches mounted. I still have the hatch cover to make. The two stringers with blue are added; the ARF is skinned all along the turtledeck and only has the one stringer in the middle, but the full scale has fabric there.

    I'll use small flat hinges at the top, thinking about a couple of small magnets to hold the hatch closed. The switches are MPI and have the charge jack built in. One is for Rx, the other for smoke system.
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    Club Saito #2, WACO Brotherhood #20. What other trouble can I get into?

  12. #1387
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    RE: WACO YMF

    Ken,

    damifino and I were talking this morning about the hatch. I used small DuBro pinned hinges (2) at the top of the hatch and a rare earth magnet to secure the hatch at the bottom, Mine has 3 sub formers and the lid is from 1/8th balsa (grain lengthwise) The hatch needs a dummy latch handle to look right. I have tried offset hinges and several others, but due to the asymetrical design of the hatch, the DuBro's work best. Be sure to mount it before you cover everything. Don't glue the hinges in until after you complete the covering job. I would reccomend that you make the access hatch (one side at least) behind the cowl on the side of the fuse to keep your fuel dots concealed. You could do one side for fuel, and the other for smoke, or to charge the battery for the on-board glow driver. Rare earth magnets work well here, and just use another magnet to pull the hatch open.

    Bill, AMA 4720
    WACO Brotherhood #1
    Its easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesnt look like an airplane.

  13. #1388
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    RE: WACO YMF

    To: ALL

    Today, I received two e-mails from the AMA plans service. The first was from Mr. John Zgunda, Director of the Plans Service, telling me that he would have the Archivist contact me. MS Schallberg, the Archivist, sent me an e-mail accepting the parts templates for the 1/5th scale YMF. These parts templates are being donated to the AMA in the name of the WACO Brotherhood, and will be included in the future plans for this model. We have acheived our purpose with them, and now this model is truly the WACO Phoenix. It is rising from it's own ashes, and by us donating the templates, and giving ownership to the AMA, no one will be able to profit from them or the plans (other than the AMA) This means that long after we are all dead and gone, the legacy of the WACO can still fly. This is Great News.

    Bill, AMA 4720
    WACO Brotherhood #1
    Its easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesnt look like an airplane.

  14. #1389

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    RE: WACO YMF

    I hope some day we can all get together. It'd be like a bunch of telepaths, we could "talk" all day and never say a word, we all think so much alike at times. I have doodled many days while at work, when I had time, on making this hatch work, and my conclusions are pretty much like you and d--fino came up with. The latch on the new Classic is a recessed one, but I thought about doing something a little more "retro" and making it a twist type, like the latch on a Cub door. I may even make it functional instead of the magnets, but they would certainly be simpler. My hatch will be from 1/64 ply and will also layer the inside with 1/16 balsa to help stiffen it. Where the hatch overlaps the doorframe will be only the thin ply, so when closed, it will be flush with the fuse skin. I made a removable plate that the switches are mounted to, so I can remove them if ever necessary, without having to get to their backplates.

    I like your idea of an access panel for the fuel and smoke fillers. I have thought long about those as well, and had not come up with anything I liked yet. I have two fuelers that I've considered using, one is simple but isn't as pretty, one is very nice looking, but presents problems with mounting. The simple one is the DuBro filler, has a ring that glues to the fuse, and the fuel dot cap snap fits into the ring, looks somewhat like a fuel cap on an automobile's tank. The nicer one is a Slimline filler, aluminum, but has a side port which makes mounting it difficult because of the "double wall" nature of the fuse. The outer skin is about 1-1/4 inches from the inner box frame and routing the tubing would be problematic at best. I had considered mounting these fueler up top behind the rear edge of the cowl, one on each side forward and just inboard of the cabane mounts. This area is still the best place for mounting these whether in a recessed pocket covered by a hatch, or directly on the fuse surface. I am mounting my smoke tank directly above the fuel tank, centered behind the firewall, and the fuel lines will enter this area on either side of the tanks if I choose the area on top of the fuse for the fillers. I have even considered putting the fuel fillers in the floor of the forward cockpit, but since that is under the top wing, would be difficult to get to. I'm going to keep thinking about it.

    I'm using a gas engine, so no on-board glow. The kill switch for the engine is a toggle switch in the floor of the rear cockpit. it will be "disguised" as the control pole.
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    Club Saito #2, WACO Brotherhood #20. What other trouble can I get into?

  15. #1390
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    RE: WACO YMF

    Ken, if you use the fuel dot and mount it behind the hatch, you will need to use a 3 line system in the tank. One for filling, one to supply the engine, and one for the vent. If you remember, my vent is under the fuse, and the tank vent and the crankcase vent used 2 formed brass tubes. I'll post a pic. The fuel dot that I use is fool proof. They don't leak (fuel or air) and are simple to install.

    Bill, AMA 4720
    WACO Brotherhood #1
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    Its easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesnt look like an airplane.

  16. #1391

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    RE: WACO YMF

    I am a long way from building my Waco, but have picked up so many building tips from you guy's it's mind boggling. I would like to fuel mine with the fillers on the wing center section running the filler lines down along side the cabanes looking like the tank to engine lines on the full size. This would require a three piece wing with center section fixed. I know most of you will not like this idea, but I hope I can make it work. I would also like to copy this whole thread and put it to print so I can have easy access to all this info. Probably a monumental task in it's self.
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    Skinny Bob - AMA 713081
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    I'm back in God's Country, Northern Wisconsin

  17. #1392
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    RE: WACO YMF

    Bob,

    I was thinking the same, putting the fill caps in the wing, but have decided not to. Reasons - extra complexity and finding black silicon tubing of proper size (I think it would be too big). I will probably use some # 12 or 14 solid wire to simulate the fuel lines. You can print the whole thread using the button at the top of the page (no pictures though). Fill your printer with paper first :^).

    Ken,

    A couple of pictures of a simple fuel dot. This one will fit in anything up to 7/16" thick you can drill a 3/8" hole. To use, pick the plug from the mount and pull out the fill line, unplug, fill, re-plug and push back in until it seats (you can feel it). You do need a little extra line on the fill line of the three line system. Can't be much simpler. The Dubro is similar in concept, but not as nice. First picture is closed, 2nd is open, 3rd is installed.
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    John F Howard (aka skylarkmk1)
    AMA 10955, WACO Brotherhood #26, AWC, NWC

  18. #1393

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    RE: WACO YMF

    John, I haven't researched fuel tubing as yet, but Small Parts, Inc. has metal and Viton flex tubing and fittings that may work. This Waco that I plan to build is going to take me a very long time as I want as much scale as possible. I will search and try what ever I have to and get-er-done. I have two ARF ( dirty word ) Bipe's to fly in the mean time.
    Skinny Bob - AMA 713081
    WACO Brotherhood #10
    I'm back in God's Country, Northern Wisconsin

  19. #1394
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    RE: WACO YMF


    ORIGINAL: Skinny Bob

    I am a long way from building my Waco, but have picked up so many building tips from you guy's it's mind boggling. I would like to fuel mine with the fillers on the wing center section running the filler lines down along side the cabanes looking like the tank to engine lines on the full size. This would require a three piece wing with center section fixed. I know most of you will not like this idea, but I hope I can make it work. I would also like to copy this whole thread and put it to print so I can have easy access to all this info. Probably a monumental task in it's self.
    I think that this would be an excellent exercise. You can solder the tank/s up, and mount them in the denter section, and use a captured nut and bolt arrangement in the wing panels, leaving the center section in place. I've thought about this as well, and very well may do it on this one. I can think of nothing that would yell SCALE louder. Why not do the fuel tubing in brass,, with fuel tubing at the connections for the tanks and inside the fuselage.

    Think about what this will do for the C/G as well. No change in trim as the tank burns down. You can make a servo operated fuel cut-off so that when you reduce your throttle trim to low idle, you pinch off the fuel supply and not worry about the engine flooding when not running. I think that a fuel regulator will be required to keep from hitting the needle valve with so much fuel. The stand pipe pressure will have to be dealt with.

    Bill, AMA 4720
    WACO Brotherhood #1
    Its easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesnt look like an airplane.

  20. #1395

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    RE: WACO YMF


    ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder

    The fuel dot that I use is fool proof. Bill, AMA 4720
    WACO Brotherhood #1
    It must be Navy issue Of course, Navy got them from the Marines, who couldn't figure them out.

    John Howard-- Who makes that fuel dot? That is the one I've been looking for; I had seen one, a while back, but couldn't remember who made it. I'll keep the other ones for other planes. Those will work perfectly. On top of the YMF behind the cowl is a filler for the oil tank, that's close enough to use two of those dots equidistant in the same area. Perfectomundo!!

    Master Chief, I do the same thing you do for your tank vents, routing the brass tubing out the bottom. Gives a clean, finished look. A three line setup is no problem, but it's possible with a gas engine and smoke pump to use a two line system, all you need is a "T" fitting in the line, because the carb diaphragm prevents flooding when fillingand acts as a check valve when emptying and the smoke pump has a check valve in line. I can fill and drain through the same line.

    I finished the hatch cover for my switches today, got it hinged, dry fit it, and made the latch. I went with the "retro" look. I used one arm of a metal clevis for the handle, soldered to a 2-56 threaded rod, through the hatch, and used a metal landing gear strap for a catch that fits into a slot cut in the floor of the compartment, just behind the horizontal stringer.
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    Club Saito #2, WACO Brotherhood #20. What other trouble can I get into?

  21. #1396

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Bill, I didn't plan on the tank in the center section. Just the fuel fill dot's ( fuel and smoke oil ) connected to the scale fuel line running down along side the cabanes into the fuel tank in the usual location. Your idea would be true scale and great. Would there be room for a tank with enough volume?

    Skinny Bob - AMA 713081
    WACO Brotherhood #10
    I'm back in God's Country, Northern Wisconsin

  22. #1397

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Would fuel draw be sufficient during aerobatics (long loops, inverted flight) with the tank that far from the engine, or would a pump fix that?

    Just eyeballing, the center section of the upper wing looks about the same size as one of those sullivan ducted fan tanks, they hold 12-16 ounces, I think.
    Club Saito #2, WACO Brotherhood #20. What other trouble can I get into?

  23. #1398

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Very nice work!
    Skinny Bob - AMA 713081
    WACO Brotherhood #10
    I'm back in God's Country, Northern Wisconsin

  24. #1399

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    RE: WACO YMF

    The tank would be in the fuse in the usual position in line with the carb, not in the wing center section. Just fill from the top.
    Skinny Bob - AMA 713081
    WACO Brotherhood #10
    I'm back in God's Country, Northern Wisconsin

  25. #1400
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    RE: WACO YMF

    Just eyeballing things, I think that you could get about 8-10 ounces in the center section. You would need to use another tank in the stock location, and let the top tank feed it. You would use a 2 line system on the tank in the fuse, and vent it to the wing tank. The wing tank would have 3 fittings. One for filling, one for supply to the fuse tank, and a vent line from the fuse tank, plus an atmospheric vent. That way the fuse tank would not overfill, and as the tank required fuel, the upper tank could give the fuel up. Probably too much sugar for a nickel though. I think that fuelling through the upper wing would be a little easier, but you still need to overcome having to split the top wing in 3 sections with the center staying in place. you can do the illusion thing by doing the fill's on the top wing as I posted in December. Put the real fueller in the hatch behind the cowl on the side of the fuse. The full scale was not certified for inverted flight. There is a problem with the float in the carburetor on the Jacobs 225, that shuts off the fuel flow when inverted. Loops and Barrel rolls still keep at least a one G positive load on the plane, so the carb float still works. One more time... This ain't an Ultimate 300. It's a WACO built in 1934, for Pete's sake.

    Bill, AMA 4720
    WACO Brotherhood #1

    ps...Personal to Ken...Are you ever going to retire that yardstick??? I think that you might get your measurments a tad off using it. It looks kinda-sorta beat up.

    B
    Its easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesnt look like an airplane.


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