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Thread: WACO YMF


  1. #14201
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    RE: WACO YMF

    Robert,

    Evan pretty much hit the nail on the head with his description. I have done a lot of prop experimentation with the planes/engines I have. Albeit none of them are 72” WACO’s powered by 26cc gas engines.

    After watching the videos of yours and Dan’s WACO’s-I was curious if you guys had tried different props. The takeoffs and landings are where you would notice the biggest difference in the way the airplane responds to bigger diameter and less pitch. But it will indeed slow the plane down in full throttle cruising. But like you said the throttle stick helps out with cruise speed.

    I’ll try not to get long winded here. But here is a little more on the theory…..As we know the bigger diameter prop will slow the engine RPM down in addition to being a bigger fan (more thrust area). The slower rpm will equal less air speed. Having less pitch will actually let the engine RPM go higher as it bites less air per revolution. Therefore, allowing you to go up in diameter without a decrease in RPM.

    On takeoffs this helps by moving a wider path of air (bigger diameter) at a lower velocity/speed. It will get your plane rolling and the tail up with less effort and then it will help allow you to roll out on the take off without jumping into the air before you are ready. As they say it is comparable to using a lower gear on your cars transmission. A negative side effect is, at some point the larger diameter and lower pitch will start to show a noticeable amount more left torque during the transition of not moving to getting enough airspeed to fly.

    On landings, the bigger diameter less pitch set-up will allow your plane to slow down a noticeable amount while still maintaining a little power at the throttle stick. Less speed with more prop wash to maintain a positive feel on the controls. Also you will probably notice an increase in prop breaking action when you pull the stick to idle. As in the back side of a loop.

    As a word of caution, if you experiment in this direction, be even more careful with nailing the throttle while at a low air speed because the engine/prop torque will definitely increase. Wing loading also makes a difference on how an airplane responds to these changes. Also do not expect brand “X” 18X6 prop to be the same as brand “Y” 18X6 prop. In most cases the only thing that will be common between them is the diameter.

    Sorry for the long post. If you guys experiment with the props I would like to read about the results. Good luck.
    Rick, AMA 115812-WACO Brotherhood #75
    To discover something better....You must be willing to try something different

  2. #14202
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    RE: WACO YMF

    Dang - Ijust looked up that 1/5th scale Pica kit that was on ebay..... apparently they are starting to go for a premium price indeed!

    Ihave the same Picakit that I've been planning on listing somewhere when Igot around to it- probably here on RCUrather than ebay. Don't really plan on building the 1/5 scale anymore since Iam working on a Barth 1/4 scale Waco. Ihad the 1/6th scale Pica Waco for a lot of years and enjoyed the heck out ofit.Let someone talk me out of that one and decided to up-size to the 1/5th scale so Ibought a kit.... 'life'got in theway and it didn't get built,then alongcame the 1/4scaleand Idecided to go that route as over the ensuing years I've gotten into larger models.

    Anyway, thekit is NIB...opened a couple times to look, butthat's it. Been stored in my shop/basement under climate controlled conditions, so it is definitelyin"as new" condition. Any interest out there at a fair price?


    Merry Christmas to all -

    Barry
    No matter where you go, there you are.

  3. #14203

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    RE: WACO YMF

    hey .... how much?
    robert valentage

  4. #14204
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    RE: WACO YMF

    Okay, apparently there's interest. Got a 'PM' already asking about pricing, but Iguess Ishould respond here as well.

    Iwasplanning on pricingat$350, plus shipping, based on RCU's 'Blue Book' prices. Unless someone really wants to pay out $500+like on ebay! Not one to turn down a good price, but that's just nuts!


    Cheers -

    Barry
    No matter where you go, there you are.

  5. #14205
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    RE: WACO YMF

    Evan & Rick,

    Thanks for that highly understandable explanation on prop / pitch theory. This subject has always gone over my head before now it makes more sense to me. I would like to hear more about APC verse wood props.
    Glade you enjoyed the videos.
    Dan Hudson WACO Brotherhood #45
    GIT-ER-DUN \"Build a WACO\"

  6. #14206

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    RE: WACO YMF


    ORIGINAL: bhall01

    ** Okay, apparently there's interest.* Got a 'PM' already asking about pricing, but I*guess I*should respond here as well.

    * * I*was*planning on pricing*at*$350, plus shipping, based on RCU's 'Blue Book' prices.* Unless someone really wants to pay out $500+*like on ebay!* [img][/img]* Not one to turn down a good price, but that's just nuts!


    ** Cheers -

    Barry
    Had you cam along with this Saturday before I drove to the LHS and dropped almost $1000 for the GP ARF and OS 33gt motor (along with enough wood for my 1/4 scale CTO) I would have jumpped all over it since I had a bid of $350 plus shipping on the flebay one last week.
    Scott aka Catalinaflyer
    Waco Brotherhood #214

  7. #14207
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    RE: WACO YMF

    Mitch,

    Received the shirts yesterday. Thanks. I think that we need to really try to get the artwork disk from Jay and maybe do a little tweaking on the shadowing on the large transfer. It worked great with the tan shirts, but the color doesn't seem to work well with other colors. They are nice, but I'm hoping that we can come up with something that makes the picture look a little more realistic.

    Bill, Waco Brother #1
    Its easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesnt look like an airplane.

  8. #14208
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    RE: WACO YMF

    I've noticed that the first run tan shirt is more comfortable to wear than the burgundy second run shirt. I think it has something to do with the size or bulk of the large transfer on the back of the shirt. Or is this just me?
    Kits show building skills, ARFs show shopping skills. WACO Brotherhood #24

  9. #14209
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    RE: WACO YMF

    Mitch,
    I received the shirts Saturday I agree with Bill on maybe a little tweaking for the next run. Thank for all your work you put in getting all of us the shirts.
    Dan Hudson WACO Brotherhood #45
    GIT-ER-DUN \"Build a WACO\"

  10. #14210

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    RE: WACO YMF

    All the shirt orders have been filled. I still have 3M and 1XL. Hope someone still wants a shirt. Maybe buy 3....one for you, one for your wife and one for your girl friend. Mitch
    $16 ea to: Mitch Epstein 651 N. Main St, Leominster, MA 01453

  11. #14211

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    RE: WACO YMF

    "T" shirts arrived today. Thank you Mitch, They look great.

    Cheers,
    Dave,
    W/B #180

  12. #14212

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Mitch,
    I'll take the last XL shirt, I'll get a MO in the mail tomorow.
    George
    Waco Brotherhood # 5
    ctflyboy
    Remember, Man\'\'s 2nd greatest adventure is FLYING, LANDING is his FIRST.

  13. #14213

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    RE: WACO YMF

    ALL

    CAN ANYONE TELL ME WHY MY SIGNATURE IS READING LIKE IT IS
    AND HOW DOI CORRECT FOR IT?
    THANKS IN ADVANCE,
    GEORGE
    WACO BROTHERHOOD # 5
    Remember, Man\'\'s 2nd greatest adventure is FLYING, LANDING is his FIRST.

  14. #14214

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Hi I have just picked up a Pica Waco YMF3 and will probably need lots of advice. Would it be possible to join your brotherhood. I am Ron Elliott user name rone1948

    . Thanks Ron

  15. #14215
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    RE: WACO YMF

    Ron,

    Welcome, Bill will add you to the roster. Which version, the 1/6th or the 1/5th? Construction is the same for both and the manuals will work for both, just watch out for demension differences if you have the 1/6th.

    Some reference material is on the House of Moy site http://www.houseofmoy.com/waco/ . The revised 17 page manual has most of the building revisions - new firewall for radial mounting of the engine, wing spar extended joiners, rear fuel tank loading and more. The plan, kits and document source document has more info.

    If you are going to Scale it out, suggest you figure out which style YMF or UMF you would like to do and get your pictures and other references of your chosen Waco before you start building.

    An original Waco YMF or UMF from the 1935 era (on which the Pica kit is based), The U and the Y are the same except for the engine and cowl.

    YMF Classic - 1985 thru 1991 (F5001 thru F5009 are basically the same as the originals with modern metals and electronics, F5010 thru F5039 have some minor changes in structure),

    Waco YMF Super 1992 - 2009 (F5040 and up have longer and wider fuselages, a balanced rudder, larger passenger door, cockpits are longer and wider and more depending on ser #)

    YMF-5D 2010 and up (F5C121 and up continues the line with more horsepower and other refinements, externally pretty much the same as the YMF Super).

    Waco Classic Aicraft http://www.wacoclassic.com/ has the complete list of changes.

    Ask questions if needed.
    John F Howard (aka skylarkmk1)
    AMA 10955, WACO Brotherhood #26, AWC, NWC

  16. #14216

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Thanks John This model is already built from the Pica kit. It weighs in at 13.5 lbs. with everything but engine. I had hoped to fly it with a DLE 20cc but think maybe will haveto go to 30cc because of the weight. What do you think?

                    Ron

  17. #14217

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Ron, is your plane the 60" wingspan or 72" ? At 13.5 lbs, it might be OK with the DLE 20. The only issue with the DLE 30 is it mounts with stand offs which could require rework of the firewall. Do you know what the plane was flown with orginally?
    Jim,
    WACO Brotherhood #3, AMA 816592, IMAA 41683,

  18. #14218
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    RE: WACO YMF

    Welcome Ron! This is a great bunch of guys on here with a wealth of knowledge and experience. Take some time to read through the thread as there is quite a bit of interesting stuff.

    Can't wait to see your new WACO fly!

    Cheers!
    Marko
    WACO Brother #163

  19. #14219

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Thanks to you both. It is the 72 inch span. I believe it had a Saito i60? Was sold by a fellow who never flew it.So don't know how it went. It does have the maple beam mounts which could easily work with the 20cc. Do you know of any other larger gassers with beam mounts? I am trying to work with gas to keep costs down.

    Thanks Ron

  20. #14220
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    RE: WACO YMF



    Ron, I'm running a RCGF 26cc. The spec's are 2.6hp, rpm1500-8000. The DLE are 2.5hp, 1750-9000. So they are close enough for comparison. Mine flies real well. Plenty of power and as some here has noted too fast. I turn a 18-8 Bold prop @ 7100 rpm. It will almost hover.
    Hope this help's one way or another.

    And welcome to the club. It is a great group of people.

    Robert
    Cub Brotherhood #3\\ Ryan STA Brotherhood #4
    Corsair Brotherhood #56\\ Waco Brotherhood #184

  21. #14221
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    RE: WACO YMF

    Almost forgot, my Waco weigh's 17.5lbs. And you can click this link to see how it flies. http://www.youtube.com/user/imperialrcclub?feature=mhum
    Just keep in mind I'm not the greatest pilot!
    Robert
    Cub Brotherhood #3\\ Ryan STA Brotherhood #4
    Corsair Brotherhood #56\\ Waco Brotherhood #184

  22. #14222
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    RE: WACO YMF


    ORIGINAL: rone1948

    Thanks to you both. It is the 72 inch span. I believe it had a Saito i60?* Was sold by a fellow who never flew it.So don't know how it went. It does have the maple beam mounts which could easily work with the 20cc. Do you know of any other larger gassers with beam mounts? I am trying to work with gas to keep costs down.

    ************************* ************************* ************************* ************************* ************************* ************************* ******* Thanks Ron

    I think Ron meant to say Saito 150...... (from our conversation last night)
    Marko
    WACO Brother #163

  23. #14223

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    RE: WACO YMF

    A Saito 150 is about the same displacement as the RCGF 26, if memory serves me correctly, the RCGF has rear induction and beam mounts.If so, it would be a nice replacement at about half the cost. Robert can you confirm?
    Jim,
    WACO Brotherhood #3, AMA 816592, IMAA 41683,

  24. #14224

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Thanks Robert. I think I would end up about the same weight. I really enjoyed your flight video. Nice plane I wouln't worry too much about your piloting skills. Nice to see the landing gear can take a few bumps. I think you are right Marko. Not sure if Saito has a 160. I looked up the RCGF and looks like it has standoff mounts. Robert did you build your plane to fit this engine or convert and cut off the beams? Marko I tried to add apicture but seems to be lost in computer land. Could you send a copy? Maybe some one recognizes the plane.

    Thanks Guys Ron

  25. #14225
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    RE: WACO YMF

    The RCFG 26cc is not a beam mount. Only the 15 and 20 are beam.Mine was built for standoff's.Well I left the beam's out ofit andfit a solid front end in it. As for the landing gear, the original got bent all up pretty quikly. Mostly a spreading issue. So I replaced itwith a much larger size wire. Now it stands up real well.
    On a side note you can, if you need to fit an engine,cut those beams off, reinforce the firewall. You already have a hole for the carb. You can get stand-offs the length needed to fit.
    And Thank You.
    Robert
    Cub Brotherhood #3\\ Ryan STA Brotherhood #4
    Corsair Brotherhood #56\\ Waco Brotherhood #184


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