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WACO YMF

Old 07-17-2012, 04:56 PM
  #15126
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Thanks Robert, George
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Old 07-17-2012, 05:25 PM
  #15127
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Any time.
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Old 07-17-2012, 06:13 PM
  #15128
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Hi guys! Thaks to all who ersponded to my request on fabrics and paints. More opionions are still welcome.

Bill:regarding your finishes, I'm very familiar with KlasKote epoxies. Will this product cover and hold well to the nitrate used to tighten the fabrics? I like their primer - almost as good as the old K&B. If Istay with dope, Butyrate over Nitrate, approximately how much paint does it take to get a nice finish?

Primmnz, Ijust checked the Aircraft Spruce site and the Randolph dopes. It's hard to beat a doped finish, but the epoxys are very good.

Robert: A lot of friend of mine have used the latex water based paints, but they were all satin finishes on old warbirds. Can one get a glossy finish using latex?


This one for everyone. It seems Iread about one of the brothers having a similar problem. I was doing some checking this afternoon on alignments and got a small shock. My fuselage crutch ( and apparently the whold model) is not level with the table, apparently due to the gear not being mounted level. Ineeded to place about a3/8 inch block under the right gear to get close to level. I already have the forward sheeting completed and the thought of tearing this all out kills me. Any suggestions? Different wheel sizes was mentioned in the previous situation, but Idon't remember the final outcome. HELP?

Thanks again folks for your valuable imput.

Joe
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Old 07-17-2012, 06:40 PM
  #15129
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Default RE: WACO YMF

i had the same issue and was pulling my hair out. This model has such a narrow wheel base that almost any misalignment makes a HUGE difference in the heights of the wing tips when it is sitting on level ground. I would venture to say that mine was at least as bad as yours. What I did... bend the main forward gear wire a little hear and a little there. Remember. A small adjustment makes a huge difference. When happy then solder the back gear wire to the forward. The difference in angles is completely unnoticed on mine and the tips are perfectly matched when sitting on the level floor.
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Old 07-17-2012, 07:43 PM
  #15130
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: Dash7ATP

Hi guys! Thaks to all who ersponded to my request on fabrics and paints. More opionions are still welcome.

Bill:regarding your finishes, I'm very familiar with KlasKote epoxies. Will this product cover and hold well to the nitrate used to tighten the fabrics? I like their primer - almost as good as the old K & B. If I stay with dope, Butyrate over Nitrate, approximately how much paint does it take to get a nice finish?

Primmnz, I just checked the Aircraft Spruce site and the Randolph dopes. It's hard to beat a doped finish, but the epoxys are very good.

Robert: A lot of friend of mine have used the latex water based paints, but they were all satin finishes on old warbirds. Can one get a glossy finish using latex?


This one for everyone. It seems I read about one of the brothers having a similar problem. I was doing some checking this afternoon on alignments and got a small shock. My fuselage crutch ( and apparently the whold model) is not level with the table, apparently due to the gear not being mounted level. I needed to place about a 3/8 inch block under the right gear to get close to level. I already have the forward sheeting completed and the thought of tearing this all out kills me. Any suggestions? Different wheel sizes was mentioned in the previous situation, but I don't remember the final outcome. HELP?

Thanks again folks for your valuable imput.

Joe
Joe,
I had the same problem with my gear I heated it and re bent the wire but was not happy with the way it looked and ended up ripping it out. I’m having an aluminum gear made up.

On the covering I used the silver solartex and loved it the silver is a bit higher priced but the weave is so tight no primer is necessary. If you PM me your address I’ll mail you a small piece to look at.
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Old 07-17-2012, 07:47 PM
  #15131
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: airplanegeek

i had the same issue and was pulling my hair out. This model has such a narrow wheel base that almost any misalignment makes a HUGE difference in the heights of the wing tips when it is sitting on level ground. I would venture to say that mine was at least as bad as yours. What I did... bend the main forward gear wire a little hear and a little there. Remember. A small adjustment makes a huge difference. When happy then solder the back gear wire to the forward. The difference in angles is completely unnoticed on mine and the tips are perfectly matched when sitting on the level floor.
Airplanegeek,

I'm sure it was your earlier problem Ihad remembered. I have already soldered the rear wire to the main but it an be undone. Much easier than going into the fuselage and attempting to change the gear mount. Thanks for the idea!

For any future builders of this kit, here is my suggestion. Since this plane requires the gear mounting blocks to be glued in as one of the first steps (and they are in the way for the rest of the build #%@*+*#), try this. Temperarily mount the front gear wire and block where you think it should go. Then, check the axeles and the top of the former to see that they are parallel. Correct any errors and proceed. The fuselage crutch is the key to the entire model being true, so don't cut any corners here.

Joe
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Old 07-18-2012, 02:23 AM
  #15132
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: rccrasher65

Charles try Fiberteck n more or Fiberglass specialties.
I'll check them out, thanks.
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Old 07-18-2012, 03:59 AM
  #15133
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Joe,
I use latex alot on my planes. I use semi-gloss and spray gloss polycrylic is a clear coat.
Here are a couple pics of my Waco painted with latex and my Ercoupe.
Later!!
Anthony
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Old 07-18-2012, 06:16 AM
  #15134
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ORIGINAL: WacoNut

Joe,
I use latex alot on my planes. I use semi-gloss and spray gloss polycrylic is a clear coat.
Here are a couple pics of my Waco painted with latex and my Ercoupe.
Later!!
Anthony
I like your WACO. It's a different scheme from the typical WACO.

Is the gloss polycrylic fuel proof? I'll be using a glow engine. How about the trade name?

Thanks.
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Old 07-18-2012, 11:09 AM
  #15135
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Polycrylic is gas proof but not glow proof. My test piece shows a little bit of alcohol and some rubbing has it peeling up. The product is made by Minnwax and can be purchased at most hardware and home stores. The biggest use I have seen of this product is to seal the koverall fabric instead of using nitrate dope. It is water based and so no harsh fumes. Maybe someone out there has had different results using it on alcohol fuel but I would not. I would stick to a Urethane clear coat or possibly epoxy which can be put over just about any paint if the paint is dry and the clear is sprayed not brushed. Be aware most latex paint takes a very long time to fully dry. I personally have not used epoxy in a long time. You can also build it like the real one with about 17 coats of dope hand sanded between each coat, for the purist.

Larry
WB 183
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Old 07-18-2012, 11:38 AM
  #15136
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: jn4dflyer

You can also build it like the real one with about 17 coats of dope hand sanded between each coat, for the purist.

Larry
WB 183

Thanks, Larry. This is the type of information I was looking for and it's good to get this info on the forum for others as well. As of right now, I'm still looking at Koverall with several coats of Nitrate dope. After that, I'm still up in the air. I'm considering KIasKoat epoxy primer and their colored epoxies. That may add too much weight, so I'm still undecided on that.

Ireally like your last comment! There was a brand new WACO at a local fly-in back in May. It had a non-typical paint scheme as seen below. Idon't know how it was finished, but it had so much paint on it you could barely see the rib tapes. The gloss was as good as Ihave ever seen on a fabric airplane!
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Old 07-18-2012, 01:07 PM
  #15137
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Waconut................awesome Waco. Now, who makes the polycrylic ? When i used clear sealers (auto) after a while the painted surfaces becomes slightly sticky, especially the wheel pants.
I would like to know the kind of clear sealers you guys use. Thanks.

Charles.
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Old 07-18-2012, 02:38 PM
  #15138
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Polycrylic holds up well to gas but not glow. The Ercoupe is a glow plane and it is cleared with Nelson's Hobby Specialties clear. Not sure if it is still available or not. The Ercoupe finish is holding up very well. I would check with Nelson's and see if it is still available.

Polycrylic is a product from Minwax. It is available in quarts or in spray cans. It is also available in satin, semi-gloss and gloss.

The Waco is now a wreck in need of a total rebuild. The rebuild will start in a few weeks and I will be lucky to have it flight ready next spring.
Later!!
Anthony
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Old 07-19-2012, 02:59 AM
  #15139
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: WacoNut

Polycrylic holds up well to gas but not glow. The Ercoupe is a glow plane and it is cleared with Nelson's Hobby Specialties clear. Not sure if it is still available or not. The Ercoupe finish is holding up very well. I would check with Nelson's and see if it is still available.

Polycrylic is a product from Minwax. It is available in quarts or in spray cans. It is also available in satin, semi-gloss and gloss.

The Waco is now a wreck in need of a total rebuild. The rebuild will start in a few weeks and I will be lucky to have it flight ready next spring.
Later!!
Anthony
Thanks for the info. Good luck with your Waco rebuild. I'm using glow fuel so the polycrylic will not work. I have tried Auto clear coats and it seems it helps but not 100%. The curing is quite long and dope is not an option because of its fumes. Brushed epoxy will work though.
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Old 07-19-2012, 11:58 AM
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Nelson hobby paint is still available it is a very tough acrylic urethane (water based) paint. A lot of people have used it on competition aircraft and have been very satisfied. Alot of colors available as well as clear. No odor and dries to glow fuel proof. I know several people who claim to have applied it with foam brushes and it will appear to be sprayed. The company was sold by the original owner Jerry Nelson due to health. I believe John Deselet now owns it and moved it from Texas to Oregon. The site is still www.nelsonhobby.com check it out great products although not as many as when Jerry had the company.

Larry
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Old 07-19-2012, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: jn4dflyer

Nelson hobby paint is still available it is a very tough acrylic urethane (water based) paint. A lot of people have used it on competition aircraft and have been very satisfied. Alot of colors available as well as clear. No odor and dries to glow fuel proof. I know several people who claim to have applied it with foam brushes and it will appear to be sprayed. The company was sold by the original owner Jerry Nelson due to health. I believe John Deselet now owns it and moved it from Texas to Oregon. The site is still www.nelsonhobby.com check it out great products although not as many as when Jerry had the company.

Larry
WB 183
LARRY.............thanks. I'll check them out. Sounds great.

Charles/WB #87
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Old 07-21-2012, 10:16 AM
  #15142
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Default RE: WACO YMF

to all for what it worth,

at one time i had contacted Waco Classic concerning paint codes for colors and Peter responded with codes that related to Dupont Imron paint which is a automotive poliurthane coating. there are various grades of this finish ranging from very very expensive to reasonable which will work well for our intent and purpose. check your local auto paint distributors they either stock it or can obtain it. the color codes for the aircraft i'm using for my base were provided by Waco.

regards,
Chris Melhus, ceije #196
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Old 07-22-2012, 02:39 AM
  #15143
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Chris....Thanks for the info.
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Old 07-22-2012, 06:11 AM
  #15144
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Just to be picky (and if anyone wants to look up more information":-))))))))))))))))

Polyeurethane.

Les
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Old 07-22-2012, 06:47 AM
  #15145
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I was/am under the impression that the Imron (polyeurethane) paints require special equipment to use such as Forced filtered air mask/hood/Suit and such because it is very toxic to the human body. The following is from the Poly-Fiber website (http://www.polyfiber.com/products/ranthane.htm)

WARNING: AS WITH ALL CATALYZED POLYURETHANES, A FRESH-AIR SUPPLIED SPRAY MASK IS MANDATORY. CHARCOAL MASKS WILL NOT PROTECT FROM POLYISOCYNATES IN THE SPRAY MIST!
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Old 07-22-2012, 01:57 PM
  #15146
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: skylarkmk1

I was/am under the impression that the Imron (polyeurethane) paints require special equipment to use such as Forced filtered air mask/hood/Suit and such because it is very toxic to the human body. The following is from the Poly-Fiber website (http://www.polyfiber.com/products/ranthane.htm)

WARNING: AS WITH ALL CATALYZED POLYURETHANES, A FRESH-AIR SUPPLIED SPRAY MASK IS MANDATORY. CHARCOAL MASKS WILL NOT PROTECT FROM POLYISOCYNATES IN THE SPRAY MIST!
About thirty years ago, Imade the mistake of painting a repair job with Imron inside a small shed, as Ilived in an Apt. and couldn't do it inside. After Ifinished,I thought Iwould die!Ihad a very tight chest, and felt like Ihad a severe chest cold for almost a week. I'm probably lucky to still be alive! Ihave used Imron since, but Itook some precautions. Iset up a positive airflow in my shop with a 24" exhaust fan in the window. Icracked the door to the shop to allow air to come in only, and I sprayed infront of the fan. Inever smelled the paint and had no after effects at all..

Joe
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Old 07-22-2012, 02:16 PM
  #15147
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On another topic, Ihave a few questions for the Brotherhood.

I added the cockpit sides to my model the other night and wanted to see how it looked with the windshield in place. For some reason it didn't look right, so Idid some checking. On the scale drawings Igot with my kit, the cockpit opening measured 24 inches wide at the widest part. The scaled width of the opening of my model was 30 1/2 inches (about 1 1/8" oversize). Has anyone else noticed this?

Another small detail concerns the headrest and the baggage compartment opening. Obviously, the headrest was not attached to the fabric. Also, as designed the baggage door extends to the center stringer. I"m looking to run a secondary stringer where the edges of the headrest would attach and from which the baggage door would hinge. Any comments on this?

One more question. Iwas planning to use the Du-Bro 1/4 turn latches to attach my cowl but couldn't locate any. They are part number 242 on the only package Ihave left. Has anyone else used these on this cowl? They are really neat, hold well, and have only a 1/8 inch dia flush screw on the surface. If you have any you would be willing to part with, let me know.

Thanks.

Joe
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Old 07-22-2012, 05:05 PM
  #15148
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Joe,

I do not have the dimensions of the cockpit. You are correct the headrest/turtle deck does screw into the second stringer from the top from the outside (P-2). The top edge of the hatch (the hinge) also screws into the stinger from the inside of the hatch (P-1). The turtle deck is a rolled piece of sheet aluminum with flanges for the screws.


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Old 07-22-2012, 07:14 PM
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ORIGINAL: skylarkmk1

Joe,

I do not have the dimensions of the cockpit. You are correct the headrest/turtle deck does screw into the second stringer from the top from the outside (P-2). The top edge of the hatch (the hinge) also screws into the stinger from the inside of the hatch (P-1). The turtle deck is a rolled piece of sheet aluminum with flanges for the screws.
Iknew about the headrest being aluminum and screwed to the top. Only problem in my case - the blank that was in my kit was way too narrow to even get close to the next stringer. When Icheck the demensions on that compared to the three views it is too narrow. I'll make it work, or at least look good. I'm past the point of be too nit-picky scale wise.

Joe
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Old 07-23-2012, 10:06 AM
  #15150
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Pica did not make the stringers scale either in size or in placement. In fact, the count is even wrong. I suppose that's why they did the head rest and the wing tips out of those giant blocks of balsa. I added some structure in order to make the baggage compartment hatch come out right on all of mine. If they had used scale parts for the stringers, the fuselage would have been very fragile. Just make it look right and you'll be okay.

Bill, Waco Brother #1
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