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WACO YMF

Old 09-22-2012, 08:48 AM
  #15401
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I started tearing into my crashed 1/3 Waco today, very depressing job to say the least. The firewall did not sustain any damage but from just behind the wirewall back to the front of the wing saddle will need to be totally rebuilt. I believe I can join new parts into the remaining fuselage and get it back into shape.
I found one broken glue joint in the left stab so the tail feathers will be stripped of covering and inspected as well. The top and bottom wing tubes have been bent and are stuck in the corresponding center sections. These will need to get cut off and pulled out(hoipefully that easy). The end rib in each panel fractured when the wing tubes bent. I will remove all the covering from the wings and repair any structural damage.

The cowling did not fare well from the crash and will need replaced. The boot cowl has some minor damage that can be fixed. The rest of the fiberglass parts are in good shape. I will get an inventory of all the formed parts I need to replace and get them from AMR. I think with 3-4 weeks worth of work I can have the Waco ready for covering.
Later!!
Anthony
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Old 09-22-2012, 01:28 PM
  #15402
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: georgewaldrop

I was remembering the comments about the inaccuracies on the Pica plan...did you ever get your true scale 25% scale plans done Bill? One of these days I WILL get another Waco built!
The Pica is way out of whack as far as the framework goes. The basic outline is pretty good, but getting the thing built to any degree of being scale requires a lot of rethinking. The entire wing plan is junk as is the tail.

The one that I'm doing from the original plans is going to be a 27% version and the top wing span is 97.4 inches.

Bill, Waco Brother #1
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Old 09-22-2012, 07:22 PM
  #15403
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I was thinking of putting a saito 170 radial in my 1/5 Pica Waco but discovered that it looks like it won't fit without changing the firewall. And it would still not fit under the cowl. I looked at the specs for the saito 120 radial which is designed for 60 to 90 planes. It produces 8# of thrust on a 14 " prop. Since the kit was originally designed for 90 to 120 four strokes would the 120 radial fly it in a scale manner? Thanks for the help.
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Old 09-23-2012, 12:46 AM
  #15404
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ORIGINAL: skypup50

I was thinking of putting a saito 170 radial in my 1/5 Pica Waco but discovered that it looks like it won't fit without changing the firewall. And it would still not fit under the cowl. I looked at the specs for the saito 120 radial which is designed for 60 to 90 planes. It produces 8# of thrust on a 14 '' prop. Since the kit was originally designed for 90 to 120 four strokes would the 120 radial fly it in a scale manner? Thanks for the help.
I think that you would be better off both financially and making the airplane more flyable to consider a small gasoline engine. The 3 cylinder 170 while being a very neat little engine is vastly underpowered for its size, and is notorious for dropping a cylinder at low speeds. I don't know if the 120 version has the same problems, but with only a 14" prop, it is going to look very strange. 8# of thrust is not very much either. I'd look to something else entirely. The Saito 3 bangers make a good paperweight. I have one.

Bill, Waco Brother #1
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Old 09-23-2012, 05:47 AM
  #15405
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ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder


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ORIGINAL: skypup50

I was thinking of putting a saito 170 radial in my 1/5 Pica Waco but discovered that it looks like it won't fit without changing the firewall. And it would still not fit under the cowl. I looked at the specs for the saito 120 radial which is designed for 60 to 90 planes. It produces 8# of thrust on a 14 '' prop. Since the kit was originally designed for 90 to 120 four strokes would the 120 radial fly it in a scale manner? Thanks for the help.
I think that you would be better off both financially and making the airplane more flyable to consider a small gasoline engine. The 3 cylinder 170 while being a very neat little engine is vastly underpowered for its size, and is notorious for dropping a cylinder at low speeds. I don't know if the 120 version has the same problems, but with only a 14'' prop, it is going to look very strange. 8# of thrust is not very much either. I'd look to something else entirely. The Saito 3 bangers make a good paperweight. I have one.

Bill, Waco Brother #1

I appreciate your candor, I have a saito FG-21 (gasser) on a Spacewalker 120 which would work and has the four stroke sound. I have been thinking of the OS FT 160 twin. That things has a lot of power, can swing a large prop and sounds great. How about that? I've been looking at the evolution 7-35 7 cylinder radial also, it would fit but not sure how much power it would have.
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Old 09-23-2012, 01:53 PM
  #15406
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ORIGINAL: skypup50


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder


Quote:
ORIGINAL: skypup50

I was thinking of putting a saito 170 radial in my 1/5 Pica Waco but discovered that it looks like it won't fit without changing the firewall. And it would still not fit under the cowl. I looked at the specs for the saito 120 radial which is designed for 60 to 90 planes. It produces 8# of thrust on a 14 '' prop. Since the kit was originally designed for 90 to 120 four strokes would the 120 radial fly it in a scale manner? Thanks for the help.
I think that you would be better off both financially and making the airplane more flyable to consider a small gasoline engine. The 3 cylinder 170 while being a very neat little engine is vastly underpowered for its size, and is notorious for dropping a cylinder at low speeds. I don't know if the 120 version has the same problems, but with only a 14'' prop, it is going to look very strange. 8# of thrust is not very much either. I'd look to something else entirely. The Saito 3 bangers make a good paperweight. I have one.

Bill, Waco Brother #1

I appreciate your candor, I have a saito FG-21 (gasser) on a Spacewalker 120 which would work and has the four stroke sound. I have been thinking of the OS FT 160 twin. That things has a lot of power, can swing a large prop and sounds great. How about that? I've been looking at the evolution 7-35 7 cylinder radial also, it would fit but not sure how much power it would have.
The FT 160 is a great choice for this plane. Be sure to install a glow driver that will turn on at about 1/4 throttle.

Bill, Waco Brother #1
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Old 09-23-2012, 02:37 PM
  #15407
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ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder


Quote:
ORIGINAL: skypup50


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder


Quote:
ORIGINAL: skypup50

I was thinking of putting a saito 170 radial in my 1/5 Pica Waco but discovered that it looks like it won't fit without changing the firewall. And it would still not fit under the cowl. I looked at the specs for the saito 120 radial which is designed for 60 to 90 planes. It produces 8# of thrust on a 14 '' prop. Since the kit was originally designed for 90 to 120 four strokes would the 120 radial fly it in a scale manner? Thanks for the help.
I think that you would be better off both financially and making the airplane more flyable to consider a small gasoline engine. The 3 cylinder 170 while being a very neat little engine is vastly underpowered for its size, and is notorious for dropping a cylinder at low speeds. I don't know if the 120 version has the same problems, but with only a 14'' prop, it is going to look very strange. 8# of thrust is not very much either. I'd look to something else entirely. The Saito 3 bangers make a good paperweight. I have one.

Bill, Waco Brother #1

I appreciate your candor, I have a saito FG-21 (gasser) on a Spacewalker 120 which would work and has the four stroke sound. I have been thinking of the OS FT 160 twin. That things has a lot of power, can swing a large prop and sounds great. How about that? I've been looking at the evolution 7-35 7 cylinder radial also, it would fit but not sure how much power it would have.
The FT 160 is a great choice for this plane. Be sure to install a glow driver that will turn on at about 1/4 throttle.

Bill, Waco Brother #1


I'm not sure which driver works best?
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Old 09-23-2012, 05:37 PM
  #15408
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Skypup, there are several companies that have drivers, I have stayed with mc Daniels they have service if needed. I have several of their drivers and they are what's comfortable for my application. Sullivan I believe also has a driver, and I'm sure the guys with more experience can give you more info. A little research and you should find a solution to suit your needs.

Chris melhus, ceije 196]
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Old 09-23-2012, 07:06 PM
  #15409
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I use these guys: [link=http://www.microsens.at]www.microsens.at[/link] . They are the smallest and lightest onboard glow on the market, and run off LiPos.
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Old 09-24-2012, 05:09 PM
  #15410
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I have used a Sonic-tronics (Mc Daniel) for many seasons, they are reliable and if you have questions or need help, give them a call.
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Old 09-25-2012, 08:33 AM
  #15411
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder


Quote:
ORIGINAL: georgewaldrop

I was remembering the comments about the inaccuracies on the Pica plan...did you ever get your true scale 25% scale plans done Bill? One of these days I WILL get another Waco built!
The Pica is way out of whack as far as the framework goes. The basic outline is pretty good, but getting the thing built to any degree of being scale requires a lot of rethinking. The entire wing plan is junk as is the tail.

The one that I'm doing from the original plans is going to be a 27% version and the top wing span is 97.4 inches.

Bill, Waco Brother #1
Bill,

I would be in for a set of those plans when you get them available...I have thought about the larger kits, but honestly don't want to spend the money to buy a kit that large...nice as they are, I'd rather build it from good plans. Thanks for the info...I knew the wings were not correct on the Pica, both in some of the rib profile/contour and the spar placement, and probably other places. I didn't know (probably read it here, but I have slept since I did!) the tail was out of whack...what is off on it (besides the non adjustable stab)? :<)
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Old 09-25-2012, 09:02 AM
  #15412
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Guys

I have one on backorder. I found a source for methanol for diluting the fuel to get the 7% lubrication required. This radial really is amazing.

http://www.horizonhobby.com/products...engine-EVOE735

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9adZ...ure=plpp_video
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Old 09-25-2012, 04:06 PM
  #15413
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Hi skypup, I have the 77cc radial and it is a really well made engine. So far seems very good quality, especially for the price. I guess time will tell, though. I am currently fitting it to my 97" Gee Bee Y.

James.
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Old 09-25-2012, 05:11 PM
  #15414
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ORIGINAL: jymster

Hi skypup, I have the 77cc radial and it is a really well made engine. So far seems very good quality, especially for the price. I guess time will tell, though. I am currently fitting it to my 97'' Gee Bee Y.

James.
Thanks James. I appreciate your comments. Did you use 100% methanol for break-in? I found a place to get some today.
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Old 09-25-2012, 05:23 PM
  #15415
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I presume you mean fuel with methanol + oil, but no nitro? You definitely need oil! Yes, I always mix my own fuel anyway, so can make whatever mix I need. I buy methanol in 20L (5.3 gal) drums, oil in 3.8L (1 gal) and nitromethane in 4L (>1gal). Saves a fortune, compared to premix fuels.

i started off with 10% oil and am reducing from there. I have not quite finished running it in yet. Will do this in the model.
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Old 09-25-2012, 05:39 PM
  #15416
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ORIGINAL: jymster

I presume you mean fuel with methanol + oil, but no nitro? You definitely need oil! Yes, I always mix my own fuel anyway, so can make whatever mix I need. I buy methanol in 20L (5.3 gal) drums, oil in 3.8L (1 gal) and nitromethane in 4L (>1gal). Saves a fortune, compared to premix fuels.

i started off with 10% oil and am reducing from there. I have not quite finished running it in yet. Will do this in the model.

Yes, That's what I meant. The place I will buy my methanol manufacturers model fuel. I guess I could get the other ingredients too. How much is a gallon of nitro?
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Old 09-25-2012, 05:43 PM
  #15417
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Well, i am in Australia, so I am sure the price will be different. But I pay around AUD$75 for a 5L (1.3 gallon) bottle.
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Old 09-25-2012, 06:05 PM
  #15418
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Well, i am in Australia, so I am sure the price will be different. But I pay around AUD$75 for a 5L (1.3 gallon) bottle.
Worth its weight in gold, isn't it (nitro)? If I buy this 7-35 radial I won't need to worry too much about fuel cost. I wouldn't expect to fly the plane very often. I have a Spacewalker with a Saito FG-21 petrol for sport flying. The Waco would be more for show and that engine would really be perfect if it doesn't overheat.
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Old 09-25-2012, 06:34 PM
  #15419
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I love the sounds of a radial engine. I flew a Beaver for about 250 hours in the Army many years ago. The R-985 @ 450 HP made a great sound. The prop went sonic on takeoff and you could hear one taking off several miles away!

Ihave reached the point on my WACO of setting up the wing rigging and attaching points for the N-Struts and flying wires. I have already shown how Imounted the lower wing fittings. These were all on top of the wing and not to difficult to set up. The top wing fittings all have to protrude through the bottom surface, and took me a litle time to decide how I wanted to do it. I decided on K&S sheet brass of various thickness bent into a squared "U" shape and protruding through 1/8 inch aircraft plywood. Since the full scale flying wires all terminate inside the wing, these are not true scale, but Ithink they will look pretty good. Ihave kept the parts that show as small as possible.

The N-Strut end fittings are also shown below. I decided to go with the 5/8 inch alum streamline struts from K&S (Ithink). Iknow, the real ones are more of an elongated oval. I actually shaped the wood ones that camein the kit, but they were also tear drop shaped. At least they came in handy as a means to attach the brass fittings into the aluminum struts.

I'll have a few more photos as soon as Iget the struts made and ready to mount.

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Old 09-25-2012, 07:28 PM
  #15420
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ORIGINAL: skypup50

Worth its weight in gold, isn't it (nitro)? If I buy this 7-35 radial I won't need to worry too much about fuel cost. I wouldn't expect to fly the plane very often. I have a Spacewalker with a Saito FG-21 petrol for sport flying. The Waco would be more for show and that engine would really be perfect if it doesn't overheat.

You should not have any overheating problems, especially if you baffle the engine. The cowl has a lot of open area at the front, and not so much at the back, so you need to reduce the frontal area and force the air flow through the fins on the cylinders. I am using the front view drawing from the Horizon website as a template for the baffling of my 77cc. I just blew it up to 1:1 scale and will stick it to some light ply. You can find the 35cc drawings here: [link=http://www.horizonhobby.com/pdf/EVOE735-Drawings.pdf]http://www.horizonhobby.com/pdf/EVOE735-Drawings.pdf[/link]
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Old 09-25-2012, 08:30 PM
  #15421
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Joe, N strut fittings, and hardware designs look great, very nice work. George
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Old 09-26-2012, 02:46 AM
  #15422
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ORIGINAL: georgewaldrop

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Quote:
ORIGINAL: georgewaldrop

I was remembering the comments about the inaccuracies on the Pica plan...did you ever get your true scale 25% scale plans done Bill? One of these days I WILL get another Waco built!
The Pica is way out of whack as far as the framework goes. The basic outline is pretty good, but getting the thing built to any degree of being scale requires a lot of rethinking. The entire wing plan is junk as is the tail.

The one that I'm doing from the original plans is going to be a 27% version and the top wing span is 97.4 inches.

Bill, Waco Brother #1
Bill,

I would be in for a set of those plans when you get them available...I have thought about the larger kits, but honestly don't want to spend the money to buy a kit that large...nice as they are, I'd rather build it from good plans. Thanks for the info...I knew the wings were not correct on the Pica, both in some of the rib profile/contour and the spar placement, and probably other places. I didn't know (probably read it here, but I have slept since I did!) the tail was out of whack...what is off on it (besides the non adjustable stab)? :<)
As to the tail being off, the leading edges of all the surfaces are not correct, and the cross section is way too fat. Other than that, it's kinda-sorta okay.

Bill, Waco Brother #1
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Old 09-26-2012, 05:36 AM
  #15423
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To all, for what it's worth- for those who don't have the time or are not very good at making small parts such as the strut fittings as I am Lou Proctor has a large selection of these to choose from.-

Chris melhus ceije 196


"sometimes you have to build it a little wrong in order for it to look right"DAVE PLATT
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Old 09-26-2012, 06:19 AM
  #15424
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"Other than that, it's kinda-sorta okay. "

Otherwise known as "squint" scale:-)))))))))))))))

Les
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Old 09-26-2012, 06:49 AM
  #15425
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Bill,

RE: scale fidelity in the Pica kit...

I am not a masters class builder, heck I'm barely what anyone in their right mind would call a "builder" LOL! What, in your opinion, are the best relatively readily available scale drawings of the Waco, so that I could start studying where I might more easily see/understand which areas you are refering to (leading edge - is the overall shape of the tail surface incorrect or is the thickness of the LE wrong due to the thicker cross section you mention of the surface?) I am enjoying learning more about scale design and building, of which you have been an inspiration. Keep it up!

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