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WACO YMF

Old 10-18-2012, 08:57 AM
  #15476
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Bill,
Glade to see you back on the Waco. See you at monster planes only 8 more day
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Old 10-18-2012, 11:15 AM
  #15477
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Dan, the dates are for Thursday, Friday and Saturday, if I'm not mistaken.

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Old 10-21-2012, 01:17 AM
  #15478
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Looks like we are dying of old age or something. Nothing new for a long time.

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Old 10-21-2012, 11:25 AM
  #15479
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Brothers, Lets start talkin and building Waco's, tired of fleetbrotherhood posts.George
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Old 10-21-2012, 01:43 PM
  #15480
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Hello all,
Not much to report on for me. My Waco is awaiting its new aluminum landing gear from Jim I’m looking forward installing it and getting the Waco back in the air. I also have a second Waco framed up I will also install the aluminum gear in it. I hope to have it come in much lighter then my first (19 lbs). I will post some pictures as soon as I get the gear installed.

Hope to see you at Monster Planes next weekend.
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Old 10-21-2012, 06:23 PM
  #15481
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Dan do you have any pics of the new waco? 1/4 scale I believe. I'm getting back to building mine I have two on the boards at present. I'm building a Brian Taylor Messerschmitt bf 109 E version, along with the waco. Enjoy Monster Planes.
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Old 10-21-2012, 06:55 PM
  #15482
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Ok guys, Time for me to make a few posts.  I have finally finished covering all of my 1/5 WACO.  I'll have a few photos soon online to show what I think may be a new technique for covering the wings. More on this later. 

I used Koverall on my model and now have two coats of Nitrate dope on all surfaces. I have bought some of Mick Reeves 1/5 scale pinked tape for the ribs and seams. I want to do rib stitching as well.  I know there are several ways to approach this. One is to buy the rib stitching tape from a vender. Another is to use the white glue drop method, and I am considering this. I'm considering trying to make my own rib stitch strips. I'm thinking aobut  laying out a piece of koverall large enough to have full length strips for the longest ribs (inboard ribs) on a piece of plastic release film such as monocoat backing.  Then on either side of that place small nails or brads at the scale two inch spacing and lace a piece of heavy thread back and forth over the koverall. This would then be doped to adhear the thread to the fabric. When dry, cut into strips the width of the ribs. These could be doped onto the wing and then covered with the iron on pinked tape.  Has anyone tried this and if so, how did it go? Any suggestions of type of glue if dope is not used?

Another question:  I have been messing around with how to go about adding the cockpit coaming.  I have a small strip of thin fake leather which I bought for this purpose. I tried a few things this afternoon, but it's going to be more difficult that I thought. How are you guys doing this job?  I have some rubber that was sold for this purpose by Foremost Products. It's 1/4" diameter and has a quarter of it cut away. It glues to the edge of a piece of balsa very well, but it just doesn't look right. Your tips and techniques will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Joe
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Old 10-21-2012, 07:48 PM
  #15483
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I have been building models since around 1958 and have covered them in everything from Jap Tissue, silkspan silk, money coat, and 21st Century Fabric, which was prepainted. The 21st Century job looked great, but it was heavy! . This was my first job with this raw fabric. When I used silk back in the day, we first wet it out and layed it over the structure. This way , the wrinkles could be pulled out and then it was doped through the damp silk. It worked very well and always resulted in a smooth, tight skin. I have not seen this technique ever mentioned for this heavier fabric. Has anyone tried it?

What Ihave done here is to try to duplicate this technique only with the dry fabric. Ihave heard it stressed to try to keep the threads of the fabric as striaght as possible. I could see early on that this would not be that simple on a piece six feet long that was going to wrap around the wing, as Iwanted to do each wing with a single piece of fabric. So, how to do it? The trick was to be able to lay it on the wing, and hold it in place AND be able to pull the wrinckles out, ANDkeep the grain straight. When it finally hit me, it was simple.

I blocked the wing so that Icould work on one side at a time. Iused a bean bag (actually bird shot) to weigh down one wing which allowed the other to hang ove the edge of my table. I layed the covering over the wing and aligned the trailing edge with the edge of the cloth. and attached the small clamps shown in the photos. With opposing clamps, the fabric is pulled out and can be almost wrinckle free before you start to dope. Iused heavier clamps on the tip to help get more tension along the grain. Idid the entire bottom surface, and then turned it over and finished the top. It worked great!

The other photos showed how Idid the top center section behind the tank location, as the ribs are not covered on the full size WACO behind the tank. The top wing had the tio done using a bow made from five strips of 1/16 X1/4" bass wood molded around a form. The 1/4" was too thin so Icovered the top and bottom with 3/32 " balsa which allowed me to do some shaping without getting into the hard wood too much. They came out very stiff and Ithink look pretty scale.

All comments welcome.

Joe

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Old 10-22-2012, 02:06 AM
  #15484
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Joe, looks like you used Dan's wing tip ribs and laminated tip bow too. Looks very nice, and a ton more scale than what came in the box. Glad to see your progress.

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Old 10-22-2012, 04:22 AM
  #15485
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Bill,

I didn't use Dan's ribs, but drew them up myself. The key to the tip, Ithink, is in the propper treatment of the traiing edge at the aileron and the leading edge. The trailing edge as you know is almost straight on the top and on the bottom, starts up about 3 1/2 ribs from the tip.to about 1/4 " at the tip. The leading edge turns up slightly from the bottom at about two ribs from the tip. I just made the bottom flat from those two points and made the ribs fit. The top of the tip rib is about 3/32" below a straight line across the top of the W-6 ribs. It may not be perfect, but it worked for me. I wish Ihad done this with the lower wing also!

Any comments on what you did for rib stitching?

Joe
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Old 10-22-2012, 05:41 AM
  #15486
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Rib stitching? Yep. I doped on about a million little bitty pieces of thread spaced at 5/16 inch and then cut about a million pieces of hair paper to make the reinforcing tape. Cover that with pinked tape and you have it. Takes forever plus one week to do. If I were going to do this again, I'd make a jig with small tacks or brads and wind the thread back and forth around them and then would slide the tissue under the thread and dope the thread to the paper. Then I'd cut the paper and thread to the correct width and dope the whole thing to the panels. Doing it that way would save untold hours of labor, plus you would have the stitching at the exact angles that you want. You don't go blind that way either.

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Old 10-22-2012, 05:45 AM
  #15487
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Joe,
Your wings look great I especially like the way you did your center section on the wing. I haven’t sheeted the center section on my ¼ scale yet so with your permission I will copy your way. Looking forward seeing more.
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Old 10-22-2012, 06:08 AM
  #15488
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I did mine like Bill described by looping the string down the jig and putting the paper under (I used silkspan), then dope it all down worked great but was hard to cut with any accuracy. I tried all the tools razor blade, x-acto knife, even a bed style paper cutter. The paper would move, or tear the strings loose. I then tried an Olfa roller cutter, against a stainless steel ruler with a cork back, with great results.
The cutter is a handle style made for cutting fabric, it has a round cutting wheel on the end that rolls as you pull it back to you along the rule.you can find them at most discount stores or sewing stores. The tapes look great when doped down and much easier to do than glue trails, more consistant too.

Larry
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Old 10-22-2012, 06:42 AM
  #15489
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I hate glue trails or dots. They are never the same size, nor are they the right scale. Yes, I do know that its all about the illusion that there is something under the tape, and all that, and that you won't see it from 15 feet away, but its all about what looks right. Glue dots just don't get the job done. They do work well for rivets, but then again, most full scale airplanes have used flush rivets since the 30's. I have replicated the screws on the Waco's with a glue dot with a slice cut out of it so it looks like a common screw. Just remember, everything that we add does nothing but aid the appearance and adds to the total weight of the model. We have had some awfully porky ones here too. I saw one third scale that weighed more than 80 pounds. That is a ton of weight for this model. Looks great though.............


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Old 10-22-2012, 07:17 AM
  #15490
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Go to the Cub Den http://www.thecubden.org/cubmenu/cubmain.html , he has an article on making rib stitches and getting the threads parallel as well as other tips on scaling out your plane. For the rib stitching look under the Covering Related tab
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Old 10-22-2012, 09:43 AM
  #15491
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Joe, wings look great, I can't wait till I get there, still framing up both planes, back and forth I go, some day I will get themdone.
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Old 10-22-2012, 12:01 PM
  #15492
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder

Rib stitching? Yep. I doped on about a million little bitty pieces of thread spaced at 5/16 inch and then cut about a million pieces of hair paper to make the reinforcing tape. Cover that with pinked tape and you have it. Takes forever plus one week to do. If I were going to do this again, I'd make a jig with small tacks or brads and wind the thread back and forth around them and then would slide the tissue under the thread and dope the thread to the paper. Then I'd cut the paper and thread to the correct width and dope the whole thing to the panels. Doing it that way would save untold hours of labor, plus you would have the stitching at the exact angles that you want. You don't go blind that way either.

Bill, Waco Brother #1

Hey Bill,

That is exactly the techniqque I mentioned a few posts back. I was wondering if anyone had tried it. I think Iwill. I'll let you know how it comes out. Any suggestioins on what to use as the base medium for the stitches? I was going to use a piece of Koverall, but some tissue or silkspan may be even better.

Joe
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Old 10-22-2012, 01:14 PM
  #15493
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Default RE: WACO YMF

We had a full scale UPF=7 and a YKS fly in at our R/C field yesterday, we use 700' on the end of a private airstrip. Anyhow I was looking very close at the fabric and stitching on the planes. The pinked tape was only visible with the light hitting it just right at 5' distance. You could barely feel the edge of the tape it was blended so well. The stitching was very pronounced but hard to replicate properly. The stich more or less has a indintation at each side of the rib where it is pulling the rib tape down with the fabric. The underlying rib tape and the stitch was very obvious. I wish I had my camera with me to get some good detail shots.
The YKS did a high speed pass about 5 ft over the runway and pulled vertical right in front of our flight-line, very impressive.
Later!!
Anthony
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Old 10-22-2012, 01:30 PM
  #15494
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Too bad you didn't have a camera! That would have been a neat photo. However, you could have gotten the pilot in trouble with the FAAif it had been published. They don't like that kind of stuff close to people on the ground. I know it happens, though. Idid happen to see a very low level pass by an L-39 Jet at one of the Florida Jets meets I attended a few years back. He was right on the deck about a hundred feet in front of the flight line. WOW!

Joe
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Old 10-22-2012, 03:44 PM
  #15495
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Default RE: WACO YMF

The low passes down the runway happen all the time everywhere(at least the grass strips around here). Doesn't seem like anyone worries about it too much.

I may try and actually stitch the fabric on my 1/3 Waco when I recover it this winter. May be a bigger headache than I anticipate but you never know until you try. My wife has retired so maybe she can stitch it for me

Later!!
Anthony
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Old 10-22-2012, 04:30 PM
  #15496
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Default RE: WACO YMF

I have a friend who just finsihed a 1/4 scale Balsa USA SE-5. He actually did the stitching on his plane. That's a lot of work, but it looked great!

Dash
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Old 10-22-2012, 04:53 PM
  #15497
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: Dash7ATP

I have a friend who just finsihed a 1/4 scale Balsa USA SE-5. He actually did the stitching on his plane. That's a lot of work, but it looked great!

Dash
It is often necessary to use real rib stitching on WWI aircraft, as they usually have under cambered airfoils, which means that the fabric wants to pull off the rib when it is shrunk tight. Also, for a 1/3 Waco it would be better not only for scale effect, but the aerodynamic "suction" forces are getting closer to the full scale. It is also easier to do as the models get bigger. For 1/6 and 1/5 scale, it would not be necessary structurally, but still gives a nice scale effect. However, there are other easier, "cheat" methods, which I am sure you all know anyway.

James.
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Old 10-24-2012, 02:04 AM
  #15498
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Been thinking about using real rib stitching on this one too, but as with most small models, the more you add the porkier it becomes. May just have to wait for the 27% to do all that. Of course, you can build one that size too heavy too. Don't need a hundred pound model.

Bill, Waco Brother #1
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Old 10-24-2012, 06:19 AM
  #15499
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Rib stitching actually goes pretty fast once you get started. I've done and I've faked it too. You can always tell which is which.
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Old 10-24-2012, 06:31 AM
  #15500
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Does anyone have or can you guide me to information on doing real rib stitching? I am getting ready to build a 1/4 scale Sopwith Pup, hopefully do my Pica Waco after that, and would consider doing real stitching but know nothing about it. Any help/guidance would be appreciated.

Chris
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