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Thread: WACO YMF


  1. #15726
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    RE: WACO YMF

    My Aileron Corrugations technique

    I did a lot of thinking before I finally decided to try this. It seemed there were a lot of ways to really screw it up. Getting everything propperly spaced and parallel was one issue. A mistake would really stand out. Another was what adhesive to use and not have it all over the place. Here is what I finally came up with.

    I drew out the aileron and divided it up for 33 ribs, which is 32 spaces. My measurements gave me 0.42" on centers. I made up a jig using formica and 5/32 music wire glued together with JBWeld. When making the jig, Iclamped it together to drill the holes and mark off the spacing. It was very important to keep the spacing the same and dividers were used for this. I made a shallow cut for each location with an exacto saw in a hobby miter box to keep it square. While still clamped together Iused a small square file and cut the notches. Finally Iglued it up with the JBWeld and left it over night.

    For the ribs, Iused Plastruct #90502. This is a 1/16" angle and comes 10 to a package for about $6.00. One package does one surface, so eight will be required . $$$

    It took several ribs to finally settle on a technique to speed up the process and keep it neat. First I tried to use canapy glue. It did not work. I tried a thick CA and it worked well. The problem came with putting it down and using the jig to space it without smearing the CA around. My final success came when Itried a sticky wax used in fly tying (Ilike to fly fish and tie flies) to hold the ribs in the jig (photo #3). By having the ribs in the jig, Icould apply the CA to the bottom of the rib, and using the previous rib as a guide, place the new ribs in place precisely. The CAgrabbed the surface and the wax allowed the jig to be removed without any problems. The secret wax is called dubbing wax. It comes in a tube and is used to wax thread to hold small fibers in place on the thread for wrapping on the hook. I applied a small amount to each "V" which held the plastic rib in place allowing me to apply the CA and then place it in position.

    Afew words about the jig. You will notice a jig piece is placed closer to one end. This is neccessary to allowfor placement of the shorter pieces near the wing tip. I have also glued a piece of 1/32 ply to the of the jig on the "hinge" end of the jig. This was spaced away from the jig with a piece of 3/32" balsa. By placing the "rib" against this and then placing the plywood piece against the edge of the aileron, the ends will all be lined up with little need for trimming. Ibeveled the ends of all ribs prior to gluing them in place.

    This got kinda long, but hopefully it may save someone else some time if they should attempt to try this. I'm sure I'm not the first to use this technique, but since Ihaven't seen it before, I thought it may be helpful. It is time consuming. I'm guessing Ispent several hours on this one surface. The rest will go much faster since I can apply two or three ribs at a time now that Iknow how. Idon't think there is any advantage to having more than four spaces for the ribs, as I never used more than three in doing this.

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    "When you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."

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  2. #15727
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    RE: WACO YMF

    Hello,
    A few new pictures of my project ...

    Albert


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    Albert

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  3. #15728
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    RE: WACO YMF

    Joe, Did you use a sheet of Plastruct to cover the Aileron first before gluing the corrugations?

    john
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    RE: WACO YMF


    ORIGINAL: johnboy151a

    Joe, Did you use a sheet of Plastruct to cover the Aileron first before gluing the corrugations?

    john
    John,

    No, Idid not. The ailerons were glassed with 3/4 oz glass and then primed with KlasKote white primer. Since these should look like metal when finished, I did it as if I were finishing a warbird. I plan to add one coat of primer to hopefully seal the edges of the angles prior to the color coat.
    Iconsidered a sheet of the plastic but I was conserned about keeping it absolutely flat. Getting it stuck down with no voids under the sheet to bubble up gave me some concerns.

    Joe
    "When you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."

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    RE: WACO YMF

    I bought a semi-built 1/3 scale Barth Waco kit today, the fuselage is about 60%. The manual that came with the kit is a decent English translation, but only covers the fuselage and the start of the tail feathers. Vogelsang sent me a pdf file of the manual, although it is complete, it is a broken English translation that is hard to follow. Apparently Peter lost the decent English translation version. Does any one have a copy of the decent English translation of the manual or know where I can get one? The kit is a year old and is his current design.
    Chuck
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  6. #15731
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    RE: WACO YMF

    @johnboy151a.

    I used a plastic sheet to cover the aileron from Evergreen, should be by the railroad section of your local hobbyshop. .020 should be fine, I had no bubbles or any other imperfections.
    The corrugations used by dash7aip are incorrect, those are for Cessna, ( sorry ) the ones for WACOS are more squarely and you can get those from evergreen as well.

    Angel
    WB 58
    SO MANY WACOS, SO LITTLE TIME.......

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    RE: WACO YMF

    A teaser photo for when I begin working on the Barth 1/4 Waco. It's a USM/Seidel 770 radial.
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    BobH.

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    RE: WACO YMF

    I'm not going to dispute your comment on the shape of my corrugations, but if you look at the photo below, Ithink theylook a lot more triangular than they do square. This from a Classic YMF-5 at a nearby airport.

    Joe
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    "When you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."

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  9. #15734
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    RE: WACO YMF

    i love that Bob H. the radial looks at home in there. Let us know how she runs. It looks like a good option for 1/4 size waco's.

    Oh, I also did my ailerons with the plastic triangle material. Tedious and time consuming, but worth the effort.

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Please take a look at post 2306 on pg. 93 and post 3078 on pg. 124. the shape of the corrugations is not V, they are rectangular.

    Bottom line as long as you are happy with it, who cares, no body else will no the difference.
    SO MANY WACOS, SO LITTLE TIME.......

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    RE: WACO YMF


    ORIGINAL: aminiet

    Please take a look at post 2306 on pg. 93 and post 3078 on pg. 124. the shape of the corrugations is not V, they are rectangular.

    Bottom line as long as you are happy with it, who cares, no body else will no the difference.
    Ihave to disagree as to the corrugatioins being rectanglur. That denotes more square corners, which they are not. The top of each one is a half round, which is niether rectangular nor triangular. Given this, and the fact that you cannot buy a piece of stock this size with that cross section, basically an inverted "U", I think the triangular stock comes closer to duplicating the desired effect than a square one will. Finally, you are correct; who else knows or cares.

    Joe
    "When you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."

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  12. #15737
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    RE: WACO YMF

    Yes, more like a "U" than a "V" which is what I meant to describe, My failure for not describing the letter U. You can also notice this by looking at the picture you posted on post 15688. Yes the edges are rounded and yes I used the plastic strips to imitate the corrugations, I think they were 1/16x3/32 bonded to the plastic surface with super glue and sanded the edges round as in a "U".
    There is a good picture of my aileron on pg. 500 post 12496.
    SO MANY WACOS, SO LITTLE TIME.......

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    RE: WACO YMF

    I see what you mean Angel. BTW, is that an FT-160 hiding in your cowl?
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    RE: WACO YMF

    Yes it is an FT 160, It has plenty of clearance to the cowling, About 3/8". I had to make a spacer about 1" thick for the propeller to clear the nose
    SO MANY WACOS, SO LITTLE TIME.......

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Ok Guys,

    Enough about the corrugation shape. You can see in the photo that they have a rounded profile on top and they are rounded in the corners onto the flat. The open corrugation on the bottom of the aileron is every fourth one to drain any condensation out. The closed ends are formed by cutting a narrow V shape out of the end and rolling the ends together. If you need more pictures or info, ask the question.
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    RE: WACO YMF

    I agree with Mr. Howard, enough about the corrugations. it was just a question on my part Frankly I think the Plasticstrut, or equivalent will serve the need just fine.
    Joe, I think you Ailerons look great! I will end up doing the exact same thing.....

    Angel, as for your FT-160. What is the dry weight of you WACO????? I have an FT-160 that I rebuilt for this kit, but I need other builders experience.

    John
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    RE: WACO YMF

    The " Fat Cuban " as I like to call it weights 21 pounds according to my bathroom scale and I don't know how accurate that thing is. and no I haven't flown it yet because I am .......chicken ?
    SO MANY WACOS, SO LITTLE TIME.......

  18. #15743
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    RE: WACO YMF


    ORIGINAL: BobH

    A teaser photo for when I begin working on the Barth 1/4 Waco. It's a USM/Seidel 770 radial.
    Perfect choice, Bob! I have one in my 97" Gee Bee Y, and it runs and sounds great! RPM is a little high for scale sound, but still sounds awesome. I am very happy with the engine.

    Regards,

    James.
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    RE: WACO YMF


    ORIGINAL: chuck l

    I bought a semi-built 1/3 scale Barth Waco kit today, the fuselage is about 60%. The manual that came with the kit is a decent English translation, but only covers the fuselage and the start of the tail feathers. Vogelsang sent me a pdf file of the manual, although it is complete, it is a broken English translation that is hard to follow. Apparently Peter lost the decent English translation version. Does any one have a copy of the decent English translation of the manual or know where I can get one? The kit is a year old and is his current design.
    Chuck
    I have also started on the Barth 1/3 Waco. I don't know how old the kit is, but I expect 5 yrs or more. My manual is translated from German, and pretty skinny and hard to follow. Earlier I emailed Proctor and asked if they had something. Got no response.
    So far I have the upper wing built, less LE sheeting and cap strips. Next is lower wing. The plans are enough to get it done, but every time I pick up the printed instructions i go nuts.

    Any recommendations on a good set of instructions would be appreciated.

    Thanks
    Mike Hopkins

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    RE: WACO YMF


    ORIGINAL: hopkimf
    Mike,

    This is the manual Vogelsang sent me, it might help you.

    Chuck

    ORIGINAL: chuck l

    I bought a semi-built 1/3 scale Barth Waco kit today, the fuselage is about 60%. The manual that came with the kit is a decent English translation, but only covers the fuselage and the start of the tail feathers. Vogelsang sent me a pdf file of the manual, although it is complete, it is a broken English translation that is hard to follow. Apparently Peter lost the decent English translation version. Does any one have a copy of the decent English translation of the manual or know where I can get one? The kit is a year old and is his current design.
    Chuck
    I have also started on the Barth 1/3 Waco. I don't know how old the kit is, but I expect 5 yrs or more. My manual is translated from German, and pretty skinny and hard to follow. Earlier I emailed Proctor and asked if they had something. Got no response.
    So far I have the upper wing built, less LE sheeting and cap strips. Next is lower wing. The plans are enough to get it done, but every time I pick up the printed instructions i go nuts.

    Any recommendations on a good set of instructions would be appreciated.

    Thanks
    Mike Hopkins
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  21. #15746
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    RE: WACO YMF

    Hello to the Brotherhood,

    I saw this recently but now I can't find it.  I'm refering to where on the wings the pinked tape goes, other than over the rib stitching. If I remember correctly, the rib tape goes around the leading edge of the wing, and the only place the double wide (4inch) tape goes is around the wing tips  and that tape is cut on the bias.I don't remember if the wide tape wraps the trailing edge or not. If I'm not mistaken, the wide tape goes around the perimeter of all of the tail surfaces. 

    Any help on this will be appreciated.

    Joe
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  22. #15747
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    RE: WACO YMF

    Joe,

    Are the pictures below what you are looking for? You have it correct on the tape placement. 2 to 4" cut on the bias around the tip, 2" on the ribs and 4" on the trailing edge. Remember to have any overlaps face aft (if possible) to keep air from lifting the tape. The rib tapes are normally placed first and the the rest. Reinforcing patches are around any opening (penetrations such as bolts, landing gear bosses, strut attachments), wire, fuel, inspection ports) and where ever there is contact with the inside stucture and external structure (fairings).
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    RE: WACO YMF

    John,

    For some reason I seem to remember reading on here that the leading edges of the wing only had the rib stitching tape going around the leading edge and did not have the wide tape on the length of the leading edge. The tips had the bias tape and the rest of the structure as you describe.

    I may not have enough of my tape material to do everything, but I'll use what Ihave until Irun out. Since I'm not doing a 'contest' model, it won't matter all that much. Ijust want to get it as close as I can within reason. Heck, Ihaven't even decided on a color scheme yet, much less an 'N number'.

    Thanks,

    Joe
    "When you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."

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  24. #15749
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    RE: WACO YMF

    Joe,

    You are correct again about the leading edge. I edited my previous post and removed the erroneous part.

    You are also correct about the edges of the tail surfaces being wrapped. The picture below is about the only one I have that shows this (look in the lower part at the rib tape). Terry does such a good job with the prep before painting and the painting is so shinny, it is hard to get a good photo.
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    John F Howard (aka skylarkmk1)
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  25. #15750
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    RE: WACO YMF

    John,

    Thanks for confirming that regarding the leading edge. Iassume the bias tape on the tips begins where the curve starts. I just hope the Solar Tex pinked tape (from Mick Reeves) can be worked around the corners.

    That photo looks like it has a lot of dope on it! The edges of the tape are pretty well filled. Isaw a new YMF this spring at a local festival. You could hardly see the tape on the ribs it wsa so well filled. That was the shiniest finish Ihave ever seen!


    Any suggestioni son how to get that finish withoutadding a lot of weight. I currently have three coats of thinned down(about 50%) nitrate dope on all parts, and Ihave another quart can full Iam planning touse before Iswitch to another product. Got to fill up theedges of this tape for starters....... I hear guys talk about latex. I bought a half pint can of latex enamel gloss just to test it.???? Ihave also seenwaterbased acrylic enamel. Any experience with these products?

    Thanks again for your help.

    Joe
    "When you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."

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