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WACO YMF

Old 07-08-2013, 04:46 PM
  #16576  
tmac48
 
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Default RE: WACO YMF

WacoDream,not sure about all the different sizes you get quoted when ordering these small screws and bolts that we use but I do know that what I used are called 1 gauge, 0 gauge only came in slot head and 2 gauge looked a little large.
tmac.
Old 07-08-2013, 04:50 PM
  #16577  
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Nut, your model must have a higher stance than mine,I think a 34 inch prop would have ground clearance problems. ( I'm running a DA 150.)
tmac.
Old 07-08-2013, 05:04 PM
  #16578  
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Default RE: WACO YMF

When she is up on her mains on a take-off run the prop is just above the grass.
I will not buy another 34" prop as the ground clearance is close. My next prop will be a 32x12 Xoar. The 34x10 prop on there does look good and it is like putting the brakes on when you chop the throttle. It did take a bit of the top end speed off but I really like the sound of the blade tips ripping the air when you pour the throttle to it. We do not have to worry about noise where we fly.
Later!!
Anthony
Old 07-09-2013, 09:17 AM
  #16579  
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Bill, Mike, Tmac,

first of all Happy Birthday to you I hope it is still ok even it is some days late.

I have checked the photos of the Waco and Bill you are right the airfoil does not steepen on the upper side but comes up from the lower side. We are going to change this, but it will take some time to change the parts as it is not only the upper center wing to change but also the root ribs of the outer wing panels have to be altered and test built before first delivery. If you don't tell judges will not realize this. I didn't know this since now and all judges I had to show my Wacos did not find out. It depends of course what you are going to show them. From the three or five view dwgs. you will not find out only from photographs which directly show the upper wing section. Even on your photo, bill one had to enlarge it to really see the how the airfoil of the center wing is shaped.

Tmac nice model. I will try to simulate the metal sheets on my next Waco with ABS plastic. I wonder if this is lighter in weight than Alu.

Peter Waco Brotherhood #170
Old 07-09-2013, 09:18 AM
  #16580  
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Sorry I forgot to mention that the happy birthday wishes are for Bill.

Peter
Old 07-09-2013, 05:23 PM
  #16581  
tmac48
 
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Default RE: WACO YMF

FMBB, If you are going to add the panels to your kit when you make the change to the center wing profile, you might look at adding the aerodynamic balancer to the rudder so as to represent the latter model ymf3 and the current Super.


tmac.
Old 07-09-2013, 11:56 PM
  #16582  
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Thank you Peter.


Bill, Waco Brother #1
Old 07-10-2013, 03:15 AM
  #16583  
hopkimf
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Barth 1/3 YMF

Tmac,

Your tip on Tnuts worked fine. Don't know which version kit you have, but I noticed the 1/2 sq (approx) stringer running along bottom from firewall back goes right through the landing gear spring support pin. Did you whack off the stringer and frame around it on both sides of pin?

Thanks,

Mike Hopkins

Waco Brotherhood # 132
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Old 07-10-2013, 03:30 AM
  #16584  
hopkimf
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Default RE: WACO YMF


ORIGINAL: hopkimf

Barth 1/3 YMF

Tmac,

Your tip on Tnuts worked fine. Don't know which version kit you have, but I noticed the 1/2 sq (approx) stringer running along bottom from firewall back goes right through the landing gear spring support pin. Did you whack off the stringer and frame around it on both sides of pin?

Thanks,

Mike Hopkins

Waco Brotherhood # 132
Wrong photo above. Here it is.
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Old 07-10-2013, 05:27 AM
  #16585  
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Default RE: WACO YMF

hopkimf I did not like the sprung undercarriage with the fairing being attached to the fuselage. I saw a full scale big radial pits with a solid undercarriage so I thought why not on a model? I cut the spreader wire at the fuselage attachment point, silversolderd ends on them and attached them to the fuselage as per the full scale. I will post a couple of photos and you may be able to see what I am getting at. This is a solid mount with out any spring in the center.

tmac
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Old 07-10-2013, 06:37 AM
  #16586  
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Default RE: WACO YMF


ORIGINAL: tmac48

hopkimf I did not like the sprung undercarriage with the fairing being attached to the fuselage. I saw a full scale big radial pits with a solid undercarriage so I thought why not on a model? I cut the spreader wire at the fuselage attachment point, silversolderd ends on them and attached them to the fuselage as per the full scale. I will post a couple of photos and you may be able to see what I am getting at. This is a solid mount with out any spring in the center.

tmac
I agree thtag this is per the full size Waco. However, the full size ship had oleo struts in the fairings, which as far as I'm aware of, none of the current models have. The spring in the center of the brace is to allow "some" give without stressing the rest of the under carriage.Just my two cents worth.Joe
Old 07-10-2013, 06:37 AM
  #16587  
LesUyeda
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Default RE: WACO YMF

tmac48

I sure hope you got REAL squishy wheels. I think the full size wheels were spring hung inside the spats, so that they could give a little, but I cannot prove it.

Les
Old 07-10-2013, 06:55 AM
  #16588  
tmac48
 
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Guys you didn't read my post correctly. I did not say that the Waco had solid suspension, that was a full scale big pits with a radial engine from a DC 3. I have flown a 33% comp arf Yak with solid suspension, my flying buddy has 40% Yak and 40% pits all with solid suspension, I'am sure that I will not have any problems with the Waco,we will soon find out when I get this thing finished.

tmac.
Old 07-10-2013, 07:03 AM
  #16589  
hopkimf
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Tmac,

I understand. From your pictures I see you have the later kit with more scale like fairings. The limit of gear spread on landing must be the point where the spring hits its solid length. Calculate the force to flatten the spring. Is a reasonable load the plane could cause on landing? If so you could work back to calculate the angular movement of gear legs, etc. I know, it sounds like I'm going off the deep end. The full scale Waco looks to have the fairing rigid to fuse. There must be some means to keep it from flexing. Maybe it's fixed at top and just guided at wheel pants?

I'm not a big fan of making it rigid. It's going to be real stiff. The full scale Cessna I fly has a solid steel bar for the mains, but it is a single bar and it deflects under load.

Maybe someone else with the same issue will chime in here.

Regards,

Mike Hopkins

Waco Brotherhood # 132
Old 07-10-2013, 07:05 AM
  #16590  
LesUyeda
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Default RE: WACO YMF

OK. IF this thing uploaded, this is what I found.

Les

Son of a gun. It worked. If you look closely at the left spat, you can see the vertical reliefs where the axle can move up and down.

Les
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Old 07-10-2013, 07:25 AM
  #16591  
LesUyeda
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Everything you ever wanted to know (and much you didn't:-))

http://airbornemedia.com/

Les
Old 07-10-2013, 07:58 AM
  #16592  
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Default RE: WACO YMF

hopkimf, please do not let me determine how you set up the suspension, Peter Barth would know better than me it is just that I do not like it. There's more to consider than what you may think,please consider a landing with more weight on one wheel, the way the spring now works lets all the travel to be transferred to on one leg and I do not believe that you can allow for that amount of movement on the fairings. Yes the full size Waco has oleo struts and I did make an attempt at making them , you can also purchase them but they run into about 700$
tmac
Old 07-10-2013, 08:55 AM
  #16593  
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Les,

If you are talking about the 2 narrow dark strips (there are 6 total around the fairing, 3 on the inside and 3 on the outside) on the leg they are stainless steel wear strips to keep the fairing and pant from wearing on each other. There are not any relief slots, just relief cut outs to allow the secondary struts to attach, the inner strut is bolted to the upper main strut and only pivots at that point (and at the mid point on the fuselage). The main strut has an oleo in it that is splined internally to keep the wheel from twisting. The rear strut is also attached to the upper main strut and fuselage and only pivots as well. I think I know, I took the pictures of NC 14081 and have talked with the mechanics and other members of the American Waco Club that are restoring their Waco's.

P1 - Close up of the inside area
P2 - Close up of the outside
P3 - Main Struts from a YKS (right main on top, left main on bottom)
P4 - Attachment to YKS, slightly different arrangement but same principle, secondary struts are solid and only pivot at the attachment point.
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Old 07-10-2013, 10:18 AM
  #16594  
hopkimf
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ORIGINAL: tmac48

hopkimf, please do not let me determine how you set up the suspension, Peter Barth would know better than me it is just that I do not like it. There's more to consider than what you may think,please consider a landing with more weight on one wheel, the way the spring now works lets all the travel to be transferred to on one leg and I do not believe that you can allow for that amount of movement on the fairings. Yes the full size Waco has oleo struts and I did make an attempt at making them , you can also purchase them but they run into about 700$
tmac
Tmac,

Don't worry, you won't determine how I set up the suspension. I realize one wheel landings happen often and impose greater load. If you create a free body diagram of the suspension, it's statically indeterminate as made. But if you replace the spring to bent wire connection with a pin, break the bent wire into two with pins at each end, you can solve it. Assume you land on left wheel. That force creates a moment in the axle leg that's resisted by the grooved wood blocks. The axle leg wants to deflect, but is resisted by the small wire which pulls the spring down, putting the small wire in tension. The spring is pulling up on its axis. Draw a sketch. Spring force up, wire force down along its axis. It looks like an upside down Y with one lower leg missing. You need another component to match the force of the one wire. That's the other wire pulling and trying to pull the other axle leg too. So it really doesn't all go to one side.

Regards,

Mike Hopkins

Waco Brotherhood #132
Old 07-10-2013, 06:17 PM
  #16595  
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hopkimf, you are a lot smarter than me,maybe I will learn from your build.
tmac.
Old 07-10-2013, 11:05 PM
  #16596  
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I think this will be the final front screen, a few more screws and it is done. Thought I would use stainless steel ties for the fuel lines but the are not very satisfactory so I will go back to making them from strips of alloy,anyway it was worth the try.



tmac.
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Old 07-11-2013, 06:46 AM
  #16597  
LesUyeda
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Default RE: WACO YMF

"If you are talking about the 2 narrow dark strips"

OK. Not reliefs, but still something to accomodate motion.

Les
Old 07-11-2013, 09:42 AM
  #16598  
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Hi Tmac,

any idea what the wet weight is of your Waco with all the screws an metal sheeting?

Peter
Old 07-11-2013, 06:01 PM
  #16599  
tmac48
 
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Peter, I have not tried to weigh the model yet, next time I have it all assembled I will try to get her on the scales,my guess is close to 25 kgs.

tmac.
Old 07-12-2013, 04:59 AM
  #16600  
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Peter I have just weighed the fuselage with center section and all radio gear except receiver and battery and it comes out at 17kgs. Would be interested in how that compares to your model minus the wings.
Regards tmac.

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