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Thread: WACO YMF


  1. #1776
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    RE: WACO YMF



    and that's TMCM(SS) U.S.N. (Ret)

    [/quote]

    26 years in the Navy and only made E-9??? Must have been a motivation issue...

    Nightstalker

  2. #1777

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Whoa, I think I'm in Nightstalker's territory! God bless the mighty Navy and all who have so intelligent to have joined her foresaken all other services!!!
    WACO Brotherhood #33

  3. #1778
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    RE: WACO YMF

    Naaah, I didn't want to be a show-off. [8D]

    Bill, AMA 4720
    WACO Brotherhood #1


    funkymusic.....Nice Try.
    Its easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesnt look like an airplane.

  4. #1779

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    RE: WACO YMF

    The humor and the jabs are what kept me lurking at this thread for as long as I did. It took me nearly a week from start to at that time page 69,70. All in fun, right everybody?
    WACO Brotherhood #33

  5. #1780

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    RE: WACO YMF


    ORIGINAL: funkymusic

    The humor and the jabs are what kept me lurking at this thread for as long as I did. It took me nearly a week from start to at that time page 69,70. All in fun, right everybody?

    Careful, Funkymusic --
    Don't give 'em an opening, or they'll say that it took you that long because us Marines have to move our lips when we read and it'd only take a doggy or squid or prophead an hour or so to get thru all those pages. (You can tell their posts; they're the ones w/ the pictures in them. Best way for them to communicate w/ each other...)
    Mobyal
    USMC
    MS0331
    Cpl E-4
    A great thread, by the way.
    MobyAl

  6. #1781

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Hey George, I have the tail feathers in Super Coverite I'll probably start the fuselage next. Still to early to give a date on the maiden, but the goal is Memorial Day. The club has a breakfast and then we fly.
    I will get some photos posted in a day or so.
    Have you gotten yours re-covered?
    Jim,
    WACO Brotherhood #3, AMA 816592, IMAA 41683,

  7. #1782

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Hi Jim,
    No Sir I have not recovered,I have been devoting all my time on That Giant Scale
    but I'm starting to see light at the end of the tunnel, so there's a possibility that it may get re-covered by mid season.




    George
    WACO Brotherhood # 5
    Remember, Man\'\'s 2nd greatest adventure is FLYING, LANDING is his FIRST.

  8. #1783

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    RE: WACO YMF


    ORIGINAL: funkymusic

    The humor and the jabs are what kept me lurking at this thread for as long as I did. It took me nearly a week from start to at that time page 69,70. All in fun, right everybody?

    Hell, no, we're dead serious. WACO airplanes are no laughing matter, nor is our pursuit of excellence in recreating an historic icon in miniature. Anyone who thinks we're joking is misinformed. Besides, we all know that Marines don't get the joke, Army guys can't take a joke, Air Force pukes can't tell a joke, and Navy Master Chiefs have absolutely no sense of humor in the first place.




    I finally started covering tonite, and have a few pictures to share. I started off with the rudder, and the techniques can be extended to all control surfaces. I first made sure all wood "burrs" and bumps were gone by sanding with 320 grit paper. To give a very smooth outer edge, I wicked thin Ca into the balsa all the way around the rudder before sanding. If the hinge line was straight the full length, I could have used one piece of Koverall, just folding it over along the hinge line. As I made the newer style rudder with a counterbalance, I had to use two pieces, so there is a seam all the way around. I have already mounted my control horns also, because I partly inset them so the bases aren't so noticeable, so I have to cut the fabric to go over them; just a single slit for each one. There is also a cutout on the trailing edge for the trim tab. See 1st pic.

    First thing is a coat of Stix-It on all the edges, and around the control horns. Try not to get any beyond the very edge of the sides of the control surface, just on the very edge along the rear, but you can make the application wider where the thickness of the rudder increases. You just don't want the fabric to stick anywhere on the sides. Note the thin black lines in 2nd pic.

    Cut a piece of Koverall for each side, giving yourself a fair amount extra to pull with. Lay the rudder on one piece and trim the edge along the hinge post so you have about 1/4 inch overlap from the midline. I had to notch the inside corner where the counterbalance angles from the hinge post. I also cut a small piece, the width of the hingepost and tacked it at this inside corner to prevent a gap in this corner. See 3rd and 4th pics. More in next post.


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    Club Saito #2, WACO Brotherhood #20. What other trouble can I get into?

  9. #1784

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Now, I start on the side covers by aligning the corner of the fabric along the hingeline at the counterbalance, and tack the fabric at the corner. Then I take out the slack along the hinge line and tack it again at the base of the hingeline, I have about 1/4 inch overlap down this edge, and I then iron the fabric down the rudder post. (#1 in this segment)

    Next, I pull the fabric to the trailing edge and tack it on either side of the trim tab cutout, pulling just hard enough to take out major wrinkles. Now I work the fabric at the control horns and make a slit just long enogh for the horn to fit through, and then pull the fabric to the trailing edge directly behind the control horns and tack it. (#2, 3)

    Then, I align the fabric along the counterbalance and tack the inside surface above the hingepost; next pull the fabric snug and tack it to the trailing edge. By now, most, if not all, of the edges have been tacked down and there should be no major wrinkles (#4) Finish ironing the fabric down snugly around the edges. Trim the excess fabric as close to the wood as you can, in such a way so that you will have from 1/8 inch overlap at the rear edge, to 1/4 inch at the wider areas. Cut out the trim tab hole and iron the fabric to the inside edges of the cutout.(#5) If it doesn't stick perfectly in the inside corners, don't worry, there will be rib and seam tapes along all edges after the first coat of dope (yet to follow)

    One side is now done, except for final shrinking of the fabric, which I wait until both sides are done. Reapply a small bead of Stix-It on the edges, over the fabric overlap. Repeat the process for the other side. A scrap is used to cover the trim tab. It will be glued in place after doping and taping, prior to painting. It is non-functional, but you want the gap to remain for appearance. (#6)
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    Club Saito #2, WACO Brotherhood #20. What other trouble can I get into?

  10. #1785

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    RE: WACO YMF


    Using Koverall is easier, to me, than using a prefinished fabric. I used to work in a furniture factory years ago, and upholstering a chair is a lot like covering an airplane. You have to work the fabric, maintaining alignment of the pattern in the fabric, and it has to be wrinkle free when done, and snug enough that normal stretch of the fabric doesn't allow sags and wrinkles later. I think Koverall is actually easier, as there is no pattern to align (well, the weave of the fabric should stay relatively straight), and wrinkles disappear when you heat and shrink the material.

    Applying Koverall differs from prefinished fabric in that the weave will "move". I try to maintain the weave as straight as possible on flat areas, but on compound curves you can use this to your advantage to work out the larger wrinkles. I'll show what I mean when I cover the fuse. Next, I'm going to cover a wing, with one piece of Koverall. Stay tuned.
    Club Saito #2, WACO Brotherhood #20. What other trouble can I get into?

  11. #1786

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Here we go with the top wing of the WACO. I used the large pack of Koverall, 48"x 5yd, in order to have a long enough piece to span the entire wing. Lay the material out with the wing on top, and measure a piece about 4 inches wider than double the chord of the wing, and about 8 inches longer than the wing. Koverall has a "grain", which runs the long length of the material, It will shrink a greater amount with the grain than across it; run the grain spanwise (tip to tip). The edge of the material along the grain has a ragged look to it (1st pic).

    Brush Stix-It along the trailing edge of the wing, about 1/8 inch onto the top and bottom surface, the complete inside of each aileron bay, and the curved portion of the wingtip and about an inch onto the leading edge. Along the tip and bottom of the aileron bays, allow the Stix-It to cover about 1/4 inch of the underneath side. Cut two postage stamp size pieces of Koverall, and iron each one into the inside corner of each aileron bay, centered in the corner. Trim them flush with the top and bottom edge of the wing. Now lay the wing on the piece you cut, with the wing upside down; align one edge of the material with the trailing edge of the wing, giving yourself enough overhang to roll the material around the edge and onto the top edge about 1/4 inch, and equal amounts overhanging the wingtips (2nd pic).

    Tack the material at the corner of the aileron bay on one side, and pulling it just snug enough to eliminate wrinkles, tack it to the opposite aileron bay corner. Keep the material's weave straight, and tack the trailing edge down from bay to bay. Maintaining the alignment of the weave, tack a corner at the back side of each trailing edge; just enough to hold the material, because you will have to release it when you finish the tips later. Now, tack the material along the underside of the inner 2/3 of each aileron bay. trim most of the fabric out of the bay area, leaving enough to iron along the insides of each bay. cut the inside corner at a 45 degree angle; when you iron it down, the small patches you first ironed will fill what would otherwise be a small gap. Finish ironing the trailing edge down between the bays, rolling the material over the edge and about 1/8 inch onto the top surface of the wing. Trim the excess. (3rd pic)

    Now, fold the material around the leading edge, pulling it smooth along the length. Apply some more Stix-it to the trailing edge and aileron bays; pull the material snug across the top surface of the wing and tack it to the trailing edge in the center of the wing. Work from the center towards the tips, smoothing the material around the wing, and tack it from aileron bay to aileron bay. Work to the center of each bay, and trim and cut the material to the inside corners as you did for the underside. (4th pic)

    Flip the wing over, and pull the material around the wingtip and tack it, starting in the center of the tip, toward the trailing edge first, then the leading edge. Where the material rolls over the front corner of the leading edge onto the wingtip, slit the material just to the point where the tip begins to straighten onto the leading edge. Center the slit, and iron the underneath side down. (5th pic)

    Flip the wing back over, and untack the outside corner on top, and pull the material to the rear just enough to pull out the wrinkle at the leading edge, and retack it. Trim the underneath edge from front to rear, and apply more Stix-It along the wingtip, over the material you just ironed down. (6th pic) More in the next post.
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    Club Saito #2, WACO Brotherhood #20. What other trouble can I get into?

  12. #1787

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    RE: WACO YMF

    The servers rebooted, I guess, and I lost the last post. Here goes again.

    All that's left is to tack the top of the wingtip down and trim it; allow about 3/16" of the material to roll around the tip onto the underside. You shouldn't have any major wrinkles or bunching; any small ones will disappear when you shrink the material. There are also some pics that show the profile of the wingtip; it should be similar to the original Pica kit's, but are fairly different from the ARF. I reshaped them to bring them closer to scale. You can see photos I have hung on the wall at my workbench to go by.

    That about does it for me tonite, which is really tommorrow now, and almost today. It's 0500, and I've been up all night. I should be able to finish the covering later today.
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    Club Saito #2, WACO Brotherhood #20. What other trouble can I get into?

  13. #1788

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Ken,
    Beautiful job, the photos have been very helpful. I am working with super coverite, but I think it handles a lot like the Sig product. I have found Coverite, easier to use then Monocote type coverings. I am sure the others will find your narritive and photos as informative as I have. Thanks again!
    Jim,
    WACO Brotherhood #3, AMA 816592, IMAA 41683,

  14. #1789

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Ken, one mor question, is there a reason you cover the fuse last, or is it just the way it workded out? Also I noticed that you have the control horns mounted when you covered the air frame, do you just paint them when you do the finish paint? I am assuming that you will spray the finish coat(s).
    Thanks again.
    Jim,
    WACO Brotherhood #3, AMA 816592, IMAA 41683,

  15. #1790

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    RE: WACO YMF

    khodges, beautiful work, and a whole bunch of priceless help to some one like me who has not covered anything yet. ARF guy ya know. Thanks and please keep posting your work.
    Skinny Bob - AMA 713081
    WACO Brotherhood #10
    I'm back in God's Country, Northern Wisconsin

  16. #1791

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Jim (and all the Brothers) Good Morning. I don't know if I actually fell asleep last night, that was some powerful coffee I brewed up.
    I covered the rudder and wing to start off easy and work up to the more difficult; doing a small piece sort of "warms me up" to get back into the "Koverall Groove", and I knew the wing wouldn't take long. The fuse and empennage is next, and then I'll finish the remainder (elevators and lower wing). Then I'll dope one or two coats and then add the rib and seam tapes. I spoke earlier that I wasn't going to simulate any rib stitching; at this scale it would be hardly noticeable and wouldn't be worth the time and trouble. The tape I'll be using is simply a paper bandaging tape, available at most Walgreens or other pharmacy.

    I already attached the control horns because I inset them into the rudder, sort of countersunk the bases of them to clean up the appearance. This makes the rudder kind of thin there, so after I epoxy them in place, and run the screws through them, I add a layer of 1/2 oz fiberglass cloth to the bottom corner of the rudder and use medium Ca to fill and secure it, and then sand it smooth. I did the same thing with the elevator horn, so the backplate doesn't show on top of the elevator.

    Did anyone watch "Dogfights" last night? I caught it between the rudder and wing. Boy-Oh-Boy-- F6F's 19, A6M-2's 1. That's quite a kill ratio.
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    Club Saito #2, WACO Brotherhood #20. What other trouble can I get into?

  17. #1792

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Round Three- Empennage and fuselage. The forward fuse on the YMF is skinned with aluminum, and I'm going to model that using 1/64 ply. There is also some aluminum around the empennage.
    First, I covered the horizontal tail, staring with the bottoms. I won't go into a detailed description because its done the same way the rudder is covered, with one exception. The root edge is narrow, and there isn't much area for the Koverall to stick well, so I Ca'd the Koverall along the root edge, both top and bottom pieces; it won't pull loose when you tug on the material at the outside edge of the stab. I used a flat hinge to tuck the material into the corner at the root, ran a small bead of medium Ca along the corner, and wiped it with a rag to push it into the fabric and wipe the excess. (1st &2nd pics)

    After both sides of the H stab are done, I covered the V stab in the same manner, also Ca'ing the bottom edge (3rd pic)

    Now, I measured a piece for one side of the fuse, and trimmed it straight on the top side, and tacked it along the bottom edge of the curved headrest extension that runs down the turtledeck. This piece is made of fiberglass on the ARF. There is a balsa longeron along the bottom edge that I tacked the material to. Note the lines along the front edge of the Koverall, and along the underside of the cockpit and baggage compartment. This is where Stix-It is applied (4th pic)

    The material is tacked down while smoothing the fabric around the curve of the fuse to work out the wrinkles. This is where allowing the weave of the fabric to "move" helps the material to conform to the compound curve. I tacked it underneath just to the rear of the wing saddle, and went back and Ca'd the top edges and front edge to keep the material from pulling loose as I pulled along the bottom and attached it to the stringer NEXT to the center one. This allows for a small overlap when the other side is covered, which will attach to the center stringer. The material is trimmed around the wing saddle and ironed down around all edges, and the excess trimmed off (5th pic). I don't have to work the material on the fuse around the tail pieces, because the "faux" aluminum fills that area in, as shown in (6th pic). Lastly the now covered fuse is marked for the panels for the forward fuse, which is the next thing (7th pic).
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    Club Saito #2, WACO Brotherhood #20. What other trouble can I get into?

  18. #1793

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Nice work! I really like the way the V-stab blends into the H-stab and fuselage. The way the H-stab sits on the one I'm building is not going to be quite that smooth. I have been workinig on adaping the dummy radial to fit the cowl. I picked this up from Tower Hobbies it is the engine from the Great Planes PT-17, so while not quite scale, it does fit and has seven cylinders. The price was right too.
    Now the question, the engine behind the engine is a Saito 150, as the photo shows most of the cylinder is exposed but the very front of the Saito (behind the push rods) is blocked by the dummy cylinder. Do you-all think this will cause the engine to run too hot?
    Ron, keep up the good work and the photos are very helpfull
    Thanks!
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    Jim,
    WACO Brotherhood #3, AMA 816592, IMAA 41683,

  19. #1794

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Jim, I think it should be okay; there's probably enough turbulent air swirling around to keep the engine cool enough, and the outflow through the rear of the cowl certainly helps.

    That 1.50 ought to pull it around pretty good; same displacement as the G-26, more power. Do you think you'll have to add much weight to balance it?

    Where is everybody tonite? We're usually trading insults faster than we can type them.
    Club Saito #2, WACO Brotherhood #20. What other trouble can I get into?

  20. #1795

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    RE: WACO YMF

    `Ken, that's truly great information and much appreciated. I take it that the fabric pulls out of the Stix-it sometimes. Thus the Ca? Tell us about your ventilation efforts. How bad is it on the eyes, nose, and fingers? family? thanks for the time and energy(that could have been used on your model)contribution to the Brotherhood. Jim #9

  21. #1796

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Jim, to ensure that engine is cooled, remove the top dummy cylinder, and block the rest of the cowl off behind the other cylinders. 3:1 is the out:in minimum area ratio you are looking for to ensure that the air actually moves through the cowl, and the blanking is to ensure that the air actually goes around the working cylinder.
    Evan, WB #12.

  22. #1797

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Ken, The Saito fairly heavy and I have room under the fuel tank to mount the Rx battery. The servos sit forward of the cockpit opening and there is a fair amount of fiberglass on the landing gear struts, so I do not think it will take much in weight to bring her into balance. I chose the 1.50 because I am concened about the weight of the airplane and had positive input from this forum regarding the Saito.
    Thanks to all for the comments on keeping the engine cool.
    Jim,
    WACO Brotherhood #3, AMA 816592, IMAA 41683,

  23. #1798
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    RE: WACO YMF

    Some of us have other obligations, therefore we can't always be trading insults (even if it would be more fun). I have been sheeting the forward section of the fuselage, and have it half done. I will start covering soon, and will not need to use any CA glue on the Koverall, since I use Nitrate dope rather than Stix-It. I will try to post some pics tonight.

    Bill, AMa 4720
    WACO Brotherhood #1

    ps. The Army, Air Farce, and Marines are wonderful guys........NOT!!!!!April Fool.
    Its easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesnt look like an airplane.

  24. #1799

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    newton, NC
    Posts
    5,437

    RE: WACO YMF


    ORIGINAL: jim schroer

    `Ken, that's truly great information and much appreciated. I take it that the fabric pulls out of the Stix-it sometimes. Thus the Ca? Tell us about your ventilation efforts. How bad is it on the eyes, nose, and fingers? family? thanks for the time and energy(that could have been used on your model)contribution to the Brotherhood. Jim #9
    The only reason I used Ca where I did is that there's only about 1/4 inch to tack down the Koverall along the spine of the turtledeck, and even less along the insides of the horizontal stab. As Stickbuilder points out, if you're doping the fabric down, it sticks anywhere it contacts the wood; just a difference in application technique. When I dope the fist couple of coats, it will adhere everywhere. Applying the Koverall as I have takes less time and I don't have the ventilation issues associated with dope. It took me about 45 minutes to cover the top wing and rudder, and about the same amount of time to do the fuse and empennage (that included taking the pictures). I have to choose my times to use dope, generally when the girls are off doing girl stuff, because the garage is our main entrance in and out of the house, and they complain loudly about the "aroma".

    Ca doesn't bother me at all, if I get in real close, my eyes water a little, and debonder takes care of the occasional "sticky fingers".
    Hopefully today I'll finish the panels on the forward fuse, maybe get the bottom wing and elevator covered. The girls have a dance competition today, and the older one has a "Cotillion" dance tonite and my wife and I have to chaperone. I also "get" to dance with my
    daughter (just turned 14). Hope I don't embarrass her too much. My dancing looks like a drunk walking on a pitching boat.
    Club Saito #2, WACO Brotherhood #20. What other trouble can I get into?

  25. #1800
    Nightstalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Glendale, AZ
    Posts
    230
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    RE: WACO YMF


    ORIGINAL: khodges


    ORIGINAL: jim schroer

    `Ken, that's truly great information and much appreciated. I take it that the fabric pulls out of the Stix-it sometimes. Thus the Ca? Tell us about your ventilation efforts. How bad is it on the eyes, nose, and fingers? family? thanks for the time and energy(that could have been used on your model)contribution to the Brotherhood. Jim #9
    My dancing looks like a drunk walking on a pitching boat.
    Ken - Great photos and info. I am really starting to like this Koverall with Nitrate method as I continue to experiment on some of my older non-flyable planes. Although I have been kicked out of my garage due to that beautiful aroma and I can agree with the safety issues as well. My 5 year old girl loves bein' with her Daddy and hates it when I have to send her in.

    We went on a cruise last fall and when the Sea State was rockin' and we hadn't been drinkin', we were walking like a bunch of Sailors on Liberty. After a "little" drinkin' - same Sea State - We looked like The Honor Guards at The Tomb of the Unknown Sodier Keep up the good work Lt!

    Happy April Fool's Day. Always wanted a day named in my honor...

    Nightstalker

    Doggie 47


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