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WACO YMF

Old 05-11-2007, 07:40 PM
  #2326
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Default RE: WACO YMF

stifts,

You may also try chuck I on the Barth build thread, he just maidened his 1/4 scale Barth and says a G62 was more than enough power. Others have had a Quadra 50 or 52, Zenoah GT-80 on the Pepino Waco.
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Old 05-11-2007, 07:53 PM
  #2327
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FMBB,

Would you like to become a member of the brotherhood while you are at it?

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Old 05-11-2007, 07:57 PM
  #2328
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Just curious, what are the differences between the Genesis and Barth kits, in terms of scale, price, how they build, etc?
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Old 05-11-2007, 09:40 PM
  #2329
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Default RE: WACO YMF

L. Kutchar- PM me with your user name and e-mail address please. I have recieved your payment for 2 large Tees. Thanks, Jay

I have already recieved payments from 15 of the 35 Brothers who requested to be on the Tee list. They are arriving at the rate of about 5 a day. That's gettin' it done fellas!!

I PM'd shipping costs to New Zealand, England, Germany and Canada to the respective International Brothers.

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Old 05-11-2007, 11:25 PM
  #2330
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Default RE: WACO YMF


Quote:
ORIGINAL: damifino


I PM'd shipping costs to New Zealand, England, Germany and Canada to the respective International Brothers.

Jay, pls don't forget me (i'm in the Czech Republic) > probably same cost as Germany (since we're neighbors )

THANKS, Vasek
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Old 05-12-2007, 06:24 AM
  #2331
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: khodges

Just curious, what are the differences between the Genesis and Barth kits, in terms of scale, price, how they build, etc?
Ken,

You too huh???? I''m seriously thinking about one of them, but I think that I am going to go with the Barth quarter scale version. Genesis is a great kit, but at third scale, it's a little large (for me) and they are working on the 40% version. Makes you wonder where it will stop....I have only seen photo's of these kits in the bones, and they look similar. I've still got miles and miles to go on the current fifth scale build before I clear the bench for anything else, and I am committed to build the Pitts Bulldog for the giveaway program here on RCU, right after the Waco is framed up. It will be some time before I seriously build anything other than what I have started.

Last evening, I installed the pushrods for the tailwheel and the variable incidence stab. Now I can add the rest of the stringers, and complete the fuselage. It's on to the wings after that, and we (Jay and I) have come up with a more scale manner to use for mounting the Cabanes and the interplanes. There will be no nylon L brackets on these, nor will there be any electrical lugs and bolts for the top wing mount. After being able to get really close to Mike's third scale plane at Top Gun, there are many other details that I plan to incorporate into this one. (did I mention what a great guy Mike is?) Bob Gonzalez' Genesis is a great model too, but I seemed to get more photo's of Mikes plane than Bob's. I am also in the process of making the cuffs for the landing gear to wheel pant transition, and the upper cuffs for the landing gear to fuselage transition. The fairings for the wing to fuselage are going to be more scale like (don't you hate scaling out a model) and I finally found a pilot in fifth scale that I like. I still have a huge pile of wood in front of me that needs to dwindle in size, so I don't expect to have this one finished much before early winter. What is next on your agenda? Your ARF is not an ARF any longer. It is a work of art, and I'm gonna be whizzed if we don't get more photos of the model. Send many more to the thread please. Great dummy engine as well. You should be proud of your efforts.

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Old 05-12-2007, 07:19 AM
  #2332
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Thought I would just add one of my fantasies. Build the 40 for the lake at Joe Nall next year. How about that for and great plane
TR
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Old 05-12-2007, 07:43 AM
  #2333
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Boy, some of us get started on this WAY too early !!! I just recieved the corrugated material from Sig for my ailerons and I have a not so well informed ( read "dumb" ) question for one of the guru's. How many corrugations per aileron? I saw it somewhere but cannot find it now.
Thanks
Scott
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Old 05-12-2007, 07:59 AM
  #2334
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Mango,

If momory serves me well, I think that there are 27 per side per surface. I will go back and count them, and let you know.

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Old 05-12-2007, 08:07 AM
  #2335
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: trlambsr

Thought I would just add one of my fantasies. Build the 40 for the lake at Joe Nall next year. How about that for and great plane
TR
WACO Brotherhood #69
TR,

Several of us in the Brotherhood have been toying around with the float equipped version of the YMF/UMF. There are several photos of these birds with floats. I believe that the correct float for the originals would be the round top EDO model. Now that you are a member of the Brotherhood, may I pose a question to you? Would Genesis consider a smaller version of the kit? Something in the 1/4 scale range. I relocated to Florida a few years ago, and this required that I downsize my modeling requirements. I no longer have a shop that would allow for building a full scale Waco if that is what I wanted to accomplish. I now must build in a shop that is limited in size and that translates into building models in a more managable scale. So how about it? Would you be willing to look into the possibilities of a smaller kit, or must we look to the likes of the Barth version, or simply scaling our own, or building the Pepino version? (boy talk about putting a Brother on the spot.....) It would be wonderful if I could enlarge my building space, but that is niether realistic, or feasable.

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Old 05-12-2007, 08:19 AM
  #2336
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Mango,

Yep, there are 27 per surface, and the spacing is approximately 1/2" on center. The aileron length is 13 5/8" spanwise, so all these numbers work out about right. On the full scale model, every third corrugation appears to be open on the trailing edge (for moisture drainage?) I'm sure that SlylarkMk1 will be able to shed some light on this. I would really be happy to have the resources available to me that he has. Jay (damifino) is looking into the possiblilty of having some of these replicated either in glass or Carbon fiber. These would make the process much easier. I am making a pair of the originals available to whomever wishes to make these for us. This should happen in the near future, but if you need them now, you are pretty much on your own. These things take time, since this is very much a cottage industry, and the guys who make these parts are into it as an avocation, and don't rely on it for their primary income. There are getting to be a lot of people interested in the WACO, but there is still not a tremendous call for parts for them.

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Old 05-12-2007, 08:31 AM
  #2337
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Mango,

According to the Historical Aviation Museum drawing by Paul Matt, there are 34 stiffeners per side. That makes a total of 272 stiffeners (or corrugations). 4 ailerons x 2 sides x 34 = 272. Here are a couple of full size photos. 1st is an overall shot (I count 34), 2nd is a close-up of the bottom inboard end with control horn (ball type linkage). 3rd is an edge shot and note that every 3rd bottom stiffener is open to allow condensation drainage. Based on Bill’s dimension of 13.625 (13-5/8ths) above, 34 corrugations would end up a little less than 4 tenths (about 3/8th" )apart allowing for the end stiffeners to be inset.
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Old 05-12-2007, 08:42 AM
  #2338
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Default RE: WACO YMF


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder


Quote:
ORIGINAL: trlambsr

Thought I would just add one of my fantasies. Build the 40 for the lake at Joe Nall next year. How about that for and great plane
TR
WACO Brotherhood #69
TR,

this required that I downsize my modeling requirements. ..... I now must build in a shop that is limited in size and that translates into building models in a more managable scale. ....... It would be wonderful if I could enlarge my building space, but that is niether realistic, or feasable.

Bill, aren't you glad you not still wedged between a couple of missile tubes trying to build one of these? Imagine trying to do a 1/3 scale there and then getting it out through the hatches without dinging it.

I appreciate all the positive comments; I've done the flying wires and will add the damping rods (the sticks in the middle of the wires) today. I also have the aileron linkages done and a couple of touch-ups. I have a small binding problem to work out with the rudder/tailwheel linkage that means disassembling the plane again, but no big deal. I also have tail numbers and wing numbers to add, but will do them with vinyl appliques and haven't been to the guy who makes them for us yet. The picture I used shows wing numbers in a somewhat different color than the scalloped trim (it's a B&W pic, so can't tell exactly what the colors are). As nice as the pattern is, I am tempted to omit the wing numbers and do the tail number only, or maybe do the numbers on the sides of the fuse, forward of the empennage. What do you guys think? At any rate, there will be a photo session this afternoon, many detail and closeups, with the daylight instead of floodlights and flash

triambsr-- That is also one of my fantasies, and I have a set of Great Planes floats (60-size kit) which is my next project to adapt to this plane. They measure out to within 1/2 inch of the proper proportion of float to fuse length, and should support the weight of this plane. I have about a half dozen pics of different Waco's, mostly YMF's on floats. The older, originals seemed to have the round topped EDO floats, but I have a shot of a YMF Super (other than the one you just posted) that has the flat topped ones, so either one I guess is technically correct. The most difficult part of putting these floats on the ARF version is adapting the mounting to utilize themethod the ARF uses to attach the wheel gear. On the full scale, the rear of the gear leg fairing is slightly behind the leading edge of the lower wing; on the ARF it stops just forward of it, not so much that it looks bad, but knowing what to look for, well.....

Likewise, the rear strut of the floats ties in to the fuse just behind the leading edge of the bottom wing, so it means getting creative with bending heavy gauge piano wire to simulate this and still have a strong base of support for the floats. I have some ideas, but haven't mocked them up yet. And speaking of weight, makes me wonder how much MORE weight this will add to this plane, and how much weight can a G-26 haul off the water. Hmmmmm.....................
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Old 05-12-2007, 09:34 AM
  #2339
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Scott,
I think there are 31 or 34 to be scale, however, the plastic covers that come with the kit have 27 per side. At 1/2 inch spacing 27 1/16 X 1/16 looks about right. I went with 1/2 inch spacing for conveniance sake, as this will be a stand (way way) off scale model.
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Old 05-12-2007, 10:55 AM
  #2340
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: skylarkmk1

Mango,

According to the Historical Aviation Museum drawing by Paul Matt, there are 34 stiffeners per side. That makes a total of 272 stiffeners (or corrugations). 4 ailerons x 2 sides x 34 = 272. Here are a couple of full size photos. 1st is an overall shot (I count 34), 2nd is a close-up of the bottom inboard end with control horn (ball type linkage). 3rd is an edge shot and note that every 3rd bottom stiffener is open to allow condensation drainage. Based on Bill’s dimension of 13.625 (13-5/8ths) above, 34 corrugations would end up a little less than 4 tenths apart allowing for then end stiffeners to be inset.
As usual, I stand corrected. The 27 count is from the set that came with the Pica fifth scale parts. I didn't get a count on Mike Barbee's 33% model, but it looked correct.

I am doing this model with the ball type control horn and a 90 degree bellcrank driven by the servo. I guess that I'll need to scrap the idea of using the supplied aileron covers and use plastistruct pieces to replicate the aileron corrugations. Sigh...

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Old 05-12-2007, 11:12 AM
  #2341
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Thank you Brothers for your insight. Big bird, if you are keeping track of this thread, the Pepino plans suggest using Morrisy Bravo (Sig)aileron covers for the corrugated parts. They do not have the correct amount of corrugations on them. Not real costly to find out, just wish I had not bought them to make this discovery.
Scott
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Old 05-12-2007, 02:01 PM
  #2342
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Mango, I used the Sig stuff for my ailerons, and they look fine. Unless you have a "rivet counter" that is knowledeable about the correct number looking at your plane, nobody will ever know. I had 3 different part #'s from Sig for this corrugated material. The spread between the corrugations is different for each one, and unfortunately, the one closest to the correct specs is too short a piece to span the entire aileron in one piece. The part numbers and sizes of the pieces (as well as Sig's direct order price) is as follows:

SIGRPRP404A---0.010 x 5-1/8 x 12 $1.99 ea. (this is the most accurate, but too short) the distance between ridges is just about 1/2 in.

SIGRPCP2571---0.010 x 8 x 17 2.59 ea (the size I used), the distance between ridges is about 5/8 in.

SIGRPCP2572---0.010 x 6-1/2 x 13-1/2 1.99 ea. the ridges are about 3/4 inch apart.

Look for some pics a bit later today, you can see what they look like. Be careful when you glue them to the aileron surface; the plastic is so thin the adhesive will soften and wrinkle it if yo use too much (don't ask how I know)
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Old 05-12-2007, 02:18 PM
  #2343
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Khodges, that is the size that I got, so I'll probably use it.What kind of adhesive did you use? I had thought about using thinned down contact cement, I can't remember if it produces heat during the curing process. Guess I can test a small piece to see.
Scott
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Old 05-12-2007, 02:29 PM
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Default RE: WACO YMF

Ken, Bill,

Check out posts 119/120 of the Barth build about your question of Genisis vs Barth. http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_49...tm.htm#5845393 . RCWalker and BigBoy99 seem to think it is a well done kit.
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Old 05-12-2007, 02:33 PM
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Default RE: WACO YMF

I recommend a Laser 300 or 360 which is just the right power for the Waco to do aerobatics.

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Old 05-12-2007, 02:41 PM
  #2346
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No thanks I not to offten on RCU to follow. Just from time to time as I have to fulfil my customers requests. But if it is possible I would like to buy the nice tees.

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Old 05-12-2007, 02:46 PM
  #2347
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Hi Waco Brotherhood, Been reading your posts for quite a while and would like to be a part of your organization. I don't post much but I do enjoy reading about your planes. I am currently flying a 1/5 , and 1/6 th Pica YMF , a 1/4 ( I think) YKS cabin (maybe someone can help me identify it for sure) I got it from Jeff Quesenberry in the warbird world about ten or so years ago and it is a real fantastic flyer. I also have a SRE I am finishing that someone started many years ago. For fun and low stress I fly a sportsman aviation ARF, very standoff scale, but forgiving. Won't fall out of the sky like the Pica. I want to do a Pepino YMF when time and funds permit. Thanks for listening and keep the interesting posts coming. ZIG
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Old 05-12-2007, 04:23 PM
  #2348
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zig, I think I speak for all the Brothers in saying that anybody who has 5 Waco models is a shoo-in for membership. I also have the little Sportsman UPF-7 stand-way-off scale, and it is a ball to fly; I must differ with you on one point though: it WILL fall out of the sky (at least mine has), and more than once.

I'll tell you what, guys..........all this talk about Barth and Genesis is intimidating as hell, and also has me drooling for one. I agree with you, Master Chief, the 1/4 scale is plenty big for me, and unless Ed McMahon comes knocking at my door, it's likely I'll never go any bigger than that (if he knocks, it'll be a full-scale)

Here's some photos made today. I still may add a few doo-dads to her (fuel lines down the cabane struts for one), but it is pretty much like it will fly. These are for the brochure, details following:
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Old 05-12-2007, 04:31 PM
  #2349
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Here's some details; the baggage hatch that hides the battery switches for Rx and smoke system, the corrugated ailerons, tail wheel and rudder linkage, and an underneath shot up front showing the added gear struts. Also notice on this shot that not really a lot of cutting was done to the cowl to fit the G-26 and Slimline Pitts muffler
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Old 05-12-2007, 04:44 PM
  #2350
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More details; a front-on shot of the engine, and a close-up of the choke lever for the carb. I can just reach a finger in and flip it on or off when starting. Also an underneath shot from the rear, and another aileron shot showing travel limits. I have a bunch of expo in all the surfaces, and as you can see, there is quite a bit of differential in the ailerons. The ARF comes center-hinged, which I changed to top hinged. It limits the downward travel, but there should be about 2.5:1 differential and I don't think there will be any problems with roll authority. I have about the same in my little UPF and it will roll very quickly.
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