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Thread: WACO YMF


  1. #2401

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Just thought I'd send in a picture of my last scratch biplane project. It was flown one time, sold to my employer, and has been a hangar queen for the past eleven years.
    Scott
    WB 49

    Well, I don't know how to upload the picture!!!!!!!
    Scott
    Waco Brotherhood #49

    I buy, I build, I fly, I crash. I buy, Ibuild, I fly, I crash. I buy, I build,................

  2. #2402
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    RE: WACO YMF

    Scott,

    To upload pictures, you need to use the reply button in the upper right hand corner, not the one that says "Post Reply" in the lower left. Under the reply box you will see "Click here to upload images and files!". Hit that and a pop up will appear that will allow you to "Browse" to the photo you want to upload. I have found that pictures reduced in size to less than 100kb load with no problem. If the total will exceed 100kb, load in multiple batches. If thing went well you will get a message "Files Uploaded Ok" but you will not see the photos until you hit the "OK" button at the bottom
    John F Howard (aka skylarkmk1)
    AMA 10955, WACO Brotherhood #26, AWC, NWC

  3. #2403
    skylarkmk1's Avatar
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    RE: WACO YMF

    All,

    More research news. I just got off the phone with Claude McCullough (sp?), who at 85 is another very nice gentleman. As some of you know, Claude recently entered his very nice Cuban WACO in competition. He told me that the plans (blueprints) he has are fairly complete, but is not sure all the parts are drawn on the plans and that the plane is pretty complex. As far as he knows, there are no known aftermarket parts available. The cowl he used was spun aluminum of about 11” diameter (he thinks) and that he made all the other parts. He has said he will send me a copy of his presentation documentation which I will make available to those interested. The documentation contains a corrected 3 view that was submitted to Dave Platt for approval and was approved by the Scale Commitee. The original, as published in Model Builder, contained some errors that his researcher pointed out. His source of information and documentation was a fellow modeler in Cuba who did the research at the Havana Library and forwarded the info to Claude. The basic specifications of Claude’s Cuban WACO are;

    Scale 1/4 Scale
    Wing Span 99”
    Weight 32-33 lbs
    Power Saito 300 Twin (just right, not too much and not too little)

    I forgot to ask which model Waco he used, but the National WACO Club has pictures of some UMF-3s in the Cuban Navy. When I get the documentation I’ll let you guys know what Waco model he used.
    John F Howard (aka skylarkmk1)
    AMA 10955, WACO Brotherhood #26, AWC, NWC

  4. #2404

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Thanks skylarkmk1
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    Scott
    Waco Brotherhood #49

    I buy, I build, I fly, I crash. I buy, Ibuild, I fly, I crash. I buy, I build,................

  5. #2405
    skylarkmk1's Avatar
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    RE: WACO YMF

    Scott,

    That is a good looking Fly Baby Bipe. Any info, wingspan, plans, engine? You need to get it back and fly it .
    John F Howard (aka skylarkmk1)
    AMA 10955, WACO Brotherhood #26, AWC, NWC

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Thanks John. It was built from BUSA plans, spans 88 inches, and I flew it with a Q42. It was WAY under powered at 28 pounds and flew like it!!! It's all decked out with instruments, rib stitching, pinking tape, etc. I had thought about getting her back, but she is better off where she is at, maybe one day though..............
    Scott
    WB#49
    Scott
    Waco Brotherhood #49

    I buy, I build, I fly, I crash. I buy, Ibuild, I fly, I crash. I buy, I build,................

  7. #2407
    Stickbuilder's Avatar
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    RE: WACO YMF


    ORIGINAL: ag4ever


    ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder


    ORIGINAL: ag4ever

    Nobody expects you to come "out of pocket" for undertaking such a great service.

    Once you find out let us know so we can help you.

    Of all the "brotherhoods" on RCU this one seems to be the closest knit and most careing.
    ag,

    We sure do try to be. Thank you for the high compliment. By the way, would you care to become a Brother?

    Bill, AMA 4720
    WACO Brotherhood #1
    To truly feel like a brother, I would really want to have a WACO. As I have a few projects in line right now, it will have to wait a year or two. I would start on a WACO next, but my nephew is bugging me to start back up on my Giant Corsair.

    As soon as I get that first WACO, I will be knocking on your door. (It might be sooner if I break down and get the SIG ARF, but I really like building so I am torn.)
    Ag,
    All that's required is the Love of the WACO's, not ownership of one. Let us know.

    Bill, AMA 4720
    WACO Brotherhood #1
    Its easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesnt look like an airplane.

  8. #2408

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    RE: WACO YMF


    ORIGINAL: skylarkmk1

    The basic specifications of Claude’s Cuban WACO are;

    Scale 1/4 Scale
    Wing Span 99”
    Weight 32-33 lbs
    Power Saito 300 Twin (just right, not too much and not too little)

    I forgot to ask which model Waco he used, but the National WACO Club has pictures of some UMF-3s in the Cuban Navy. When I get the documentation I’ll let you guys know what Waco model he used.
    John, I think Claude's Waco is a "D" model, if the one you're talking about is this one:
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    Club Saito #2, WACO Brotherhood #20. What other trouble can I get into?

  9. #2409
    skylarkmk1's Avatar
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    RE: WACO YMF

    Ken,

    I believe that is the one, it has the Cuban markings. If so, it may be a S3HD, but I won't know until the info gets here. There were 3 similar versions, the first has just 2 cabane struts mounted on the center line, the second version had 4 struts, short with fairings, and the last version, the wing roots turned down to the fuselage, somewhat similar to the Hall Bulldog only shorter. A few 3 views are on the National Waco Club website that show the differences.
    John F Howard (aka skylarkmk1)
    AMA 10955, WACO Brotherhood #26, AWC, NWC

  10. #2410
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    RE: WACO YMF

    Stickbuilder- I've got the 'male' parts hammered out for your cabanes and interplane struts. They are just like the part I made for your landing gear spring, except there are 12 of these.
    Will make the brass sleeves for them first of the week. The brass sleeves will silver solder onto the music wire cabane and interplane struts. They have an O.D. of .225", should be small enough, huh? Later, Jay

    P.S. Thanks for everyone's support on the Tee shirt project!
    Everybody knows you can\'\'t make a time machine out of a Tilt-A-Whirl.........-:WACO Brotherhood 25:-

  11. #2411
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    RE: WACO YMF


    ORIGINAL: damifino

    Stickbuilder- I've got the 'male' parts hammered out for your cabanes and interplane struts. They are just like the part I made for your landing gear spring, except there are 12 of these.
    Will make the brass sleeves for them first of the week. The brass sleeves will silver solder onto the music wire cabane and interplane struts. They have an O.D. of .225", should be small enough, huh? Later, Jay

    P.S. Thanks for everyone's support on the Tee shirt project!
    Neat, I can't wait to see them. I have been doing the setups for the flight controls for the aft end of the fuselage. Wow !!!! Being able to control the incidence really takes up a little more room. I'm using a separate servo to drive the tailwheel too, so it's getting a little crowded back there. It's all in, and works well (no significant friction or binding). It required making a special tool to be able to disconnect and reconnect the linkage for the horizontal stab, but I think being able to service the unit will be worth the hassle. There is an access panel to be able to service the tailwheel as well. The nice thing about being able to independently drive the tailwheel will be the lack of problems associated with landing shock to the rudder and it's servo, and the problem of over steering the tailwheel with standard linkages. I'm going to use a small servo for the tailwheel. It's a shame that I'm too lazy to engineer a non-steerable tailwheel that would either lock or unlock, but it's easier to make it steerable than to engineer independent proportional braking on a model this size. Who makes a 20X4 wooden prop? I think I want to try one to check the thrust readings. I think that I want this size prop on this one. I want to slow the top speed down, and increase the acceleration rate. Any thoughts on this?

    Bill, AMA 4720
    WACO Brotherhood #1
    Its easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesnt look like an airplane.

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    RE: WACO YMF

    Stickbuilder. I realize this is a Waco thread,but I think you took pic's at Top Gun and I saw a pic of a P-26 Peashooter.. You wouldn't know who built it would you??.. I have Pepino plans and curious if that plane was built with these plans etc... Any info would be appreciated Thanks .. Love your Wacos. I just ordered 1/4 scale plans and will start it soon..
    BobFI
    fly like lightning-crash like thunder

  13. #2413
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    RE: WACO YMF


    ORIGINAL: BOBFI

    Stickbuilder. I realize this is a Waco thread,but I think you took pic's at Top Gun and I saw a pic of a P-26 Peashooter.. You wouldn't know who built it would you??.. I have Pepino plans and curious if that plane was built with these plans etc... Any info would be appreciated Thanks .. Love your Wacos. I just ordered 1/4 scale plans and will start it soon..
    BobFI
    BOBFI,

    As I reported on page 95, The P-26 was entered in Masters as entry # M04. The entrant was: Gerardo Galvez, and sorry, I don't know his country of orign. I do know that he scored 94.417 on his static score (Outline, color and craftsmanship), and his flight scores were posted as 0.00 flight one (no flight made) and 0.00 flight 2 (no flight made) and 0.00 flight 3 (no flight made). His overall score was 94.417 which was good for 9th place in the overall standings for the Master's class. That and the few photo's that I was able to take of the model is all the information that I have. Frank Tiano may have more information available, but I don't know whether he is able to make that information public. Good luck with your P-Shooter project.

    Bill, AMA 4720
    WACO Brotherhood #1
    Its easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesnt look like an airplane.

  14. #2414

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    RE: WACO YMF

    A little R/C blunder to share with you brothers. It is only kinda related to Waco's, but here you go. I bought some "Sumo Glue" that I thought about using during my build.Decided not to. Today I had some loose flashing on the eve of my house and decided to try gluing it on with the sumo glue. This stuff drips silently. Attatched the piece to my house and went back to sanding the leading edge on my airplane. When I finished, I went to brush the dust out of my hair. I then discovered that I had a huge amount ( it seemed to me as I don't have much hair) of the cured sumo glue in my hair. It took my wife thirty minutes to cut the clumps out, in between laughing fits. Off to the Barber in the morning. Wear a hat when working with this stuff guys, if you don't want your wife laughing at you.
    Scott
    WB 49
    Scott
    Waco Brotherhood #49

    I buy, I build, I fly, I crash. I buy, Ibuild, I fly, I crash. I buy, I build,................

  15. #2415
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    RE: WACO YMF

    Ahem,

    I believe that I would have doctored that story so it would appear that it happened to someone I knew, and not to me. No matter, it's too late now. I just wish we had a video of the shorn lamb.

    Bill, AMA 4720
    WACO Brotherhood #1
    Its easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesnt look like an airplane.

  16. #2416

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    RE: WACO YMF

    That's too funny, Scott. Very similar to something I did not too long ago. I was working at my bench, I forget exactly what I was doing, but it involved leaning over the bench. Well, I unknowingly knocked over the small bottle of medium Ca, which proceded to drip against me and the edge of the bench. When I straightened up, I almost brought the bench with me; the Ca had glued the edge of the bench to my belt. At least there wasn't any physical evidence i couldn't hide; just a chunk of my belt permanently affixed to the edge of my workbench.

    Well, YEE-HAAA. I started the WACO for the first time today, to make sure it would even run, and to check the throttle settings. I ran maybe half a tank through it (16 oz tank) and it runs great. I'm running a mix that's a bit leaner on oil than 32:1, not quite 40:1 with Klotz synthetic as the lube. Transition from just above idle to midrange is a tad muddy, but I didn't touch the needles from the factory settings yet. I tried to tach the top end, but my tach wasn't cooperating. It was a bit gray outside, a thunderstorm was brewing and there wasn't very good reflection from the prop for the tach to read, but the engine really revs. I have an 18-6 Master Airscrew Classic on it right now, that will likely be my flight prop. I may also try an 18-8. I untied the plane from its hold-down and taxied around the yard to get an idea of thrust. With the elevator neutral, 1/4 throttle starts to lift the tail, and at 1/3 you have to put up elevator to keep the plane from nosing over in the grass. A short burst of throttle from standstill gets the plane rolling quickly. My guess is a takeoff roll in still air less than 100 feet. Ground handling is excellent, and it will turn 180 degrees in about 1-1/2 wingspan with my tailwheel setup as I have it. I'm using the same servo for rudder and tailwheel. I have the rudder arms on the inside holes of the servo arm, and the tailwheel is on the ouside, so it deflects more than the rudder at a given stick position. I have negative 40% expo in the rudder. I think it and the elevators will be VERY effective, so I wanted to decrease the sensitivity around center. The only thing I will probably do to my setup is add a "servosaver" spring linkage to the tailwheel control rod. I'd like to be able to spring load the tailwheel itself to reduce shock to the tail when it sets down. I have an idea to try but haven't really thought it through or experimented yet.

    Master Chief, funny you should mention your prop thoughts. I was talking to a guy at or club meeting last week about what he thought I should try on the Waco. He flies a lot of 1/4 scale WWI bipes, and is actually working in a 1/4 scale Waco D like Claude's right now; it's an overhaul of a long-built plane, mainly a re-cover and new electronics., and runs mostly G-26 and G-38's. He recommended the higher pitch props to me because he says the induced drag really slows you down off throttle and the higher pitch props allow more thrust faster. He tried some 4-pitch props once, he said, and they wouldn't move the planes fast enough for good performance even at full throttle. Performance was "mushy" in his words, and he couldn't keep enough air over the tail surfaces on the ground (during landing roll-out especially). Of course he's got a tail skid instead of a wheel, and the rudder authority on most of the WWI stuff ain't that great anyway at low speed. When I mentioned the 18-6, he said that was a pretty good one to start with, and to maybe try the 18-8. I guess all of them will fly the plane, it sounds like a good experiment while getting used to the flight characteristics. I believe the UMF/YMF had a 98 inch diameter prop, so 20 inches would be right on for scale. Once I get the tach to work and see what I'm turning, I might even try a 20-something, but I'll initially fly it with the 18.
    Club Saito #2, WACO Brotherhood #20. What other trouble can I get into?

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    RE: WACO YMF

    KHODGES- Sounds like you are having fun! Do you know where I can get 3-views of the YMF showing panel lines and maybe screws, rivets etc? How about a definative WACO book, you know drawings, pictures, history, the whole 9 yards. This question also goes out to SKYLARK. What is your one stop choice for a WACO reference book?? Is there such a thing?

    TEE SHIRT UPDATE: I'm taking a break from the tee shirt project for a couple of days. Not to worry, the project will not delay. I've received a few more payments the last two days and will update the list tomorrow or Friday. REMEMBER: the deadline is MAY 31!!Thanks, Jay
    Everybody knows you can\'\'t make a time machine out of a Tilt-A-Whirl.........-:WACO Brotherhood 25:-

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    RE: WACO YMF

    I would also like a source of Waco details. I am having a devil of a time trying to get my wingtips correct, or at least looking right. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks
    Scott
    WB# 49
    Scott
    Waco Brotherhood #49

    I buy, I build, I fly, I crash. I buy, Ibuild, I fly, I crash. I buy, I build,................

  19. #2419
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    RE: WACO YMF

    Jay,

    I just sent an updated Plans, Kits and Documentaion Source list to Chris MH and he replied that he will get it posted shortly. I also included an index of this thread with references to a couple of other threads (it is still under developement). I think both WACO Clubs may have a source of drawings, I haven't tried them yet though. Wish we did have a one source WACO answer book.
    John F Howard (aka skylarkmk1)
    AMA 10955, WACO Brotherhood #26, AWC, NWC

  20. #2420
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    RE: WACO YMF

    This book/drawing store has several interesting books including all 8 or 9 issues of the old WACO magazine. How about Paul Matt drawings? They are available in book or CD form.

    Link: http://www.windcanyonbooks.com/index...tml&lang=en-us

    For some reason this link takes you to the correct website but not the home page, at least you can get there from here!!
    Everybody knows you can\'\'t make a time machine out of a Tilt-A-Whirl.........-:WACO Brotherhood 25:-

  21. #2421
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    RE: WACO YMF


    ORIGINAL: skylarkmk1

    Jay,

    I just sent an updated Plans, Kits and Documentaion Source list to Chris MH and he replied that he will get it posted shortly. I also included an index of this thread with references to a couple of other threads (it is still under developement). I think both WACO Clubs may have a source of drawings, I haven't tried them yet though. Wish we did have a one source WACO answer book.

    I really enjoyed the photos of that Resoratation At Creve Croeur. I am trying to build a cabin model inside the confines of Pica Plans. A QDC I suppose looks closest. Do you have any more photos of cabin area of the resto project?
    Thanks, Arthur James

  22. #2422
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    RE: WACO YMF

    Neat, I can't wait to see them.
    Here ya go!!
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    Everybody knows you can\'\'t make a time machine out of a Tilt-A-Whirl.........-:WACO Brotherhood 25:-

  23. #2423

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    RE: WACO YMF


    ORIGINAL: damifino

    KHODGES- Sounds like you are having fun! Do you know where I can get 3-views of the YMF showing panel lines and maybe screws, rivets etc? How about a definative WACO book, you know drawings, pictures, history, the whole 9 yards. This question also goes out to SKYLARK. What is your one stop choice for a WACO reference book?? Is there such a thing?
    Jay--It is a blast. I'm getting more convinced that it will really fly. I'm off work tomorrow, going out to the field in the morning. I haven't flown in over three weeks, for me that is a long, long time. I don't plan to maiden the Waco tomorrow, but I am going to mess with tuning some more and fly some other stuff, getting ready for the warbird fly-in in a few weeks.

    I don't know of any 3-views showing that kind of detail, but I'll keep looking. I am going out to Creve Couer for the AWC Fly-In on Father's Day weekend and plan to make s***loads of detail shots, using a ruler in the picture for scale. John (skylarkmk1) and I should be able to publish our own book after that weekend. He's got the best line on detail right now, the pics he's been posting are outstanding. I used pictures off the 'net and measured them with proportional calipers to get most of my measurements.
    Club Saito #2, WACO Brotherhood #20. What other trouble can I get into?

  24. #2424
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    RE: WACO YMF

    Jay, Scott,

    The attached are from a YKS under restoration, if they haven't been covered, I'll try to get some more shots from different angles this weekend (Sunday). I'll also take some of wings that have been covered (front, tip, under, over and rear), probably of a UBF-2 or UPF-7, so you can get an idea on how it should look when finished.
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    John F Howard (aka skylarkmk1)
    AMA 10955, WACO Brotherhood #26, AWC, NWC

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    RE: WACO YMF


    ORIGINAL: mango12

    I would also like a source of Waco details. I am having a devil of a time trying to get my wingtips correct, or at least looking right. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks
    Scott
    WB# 49
    Scott, The wingtips were one thing that took me a while to get right when I "un-arfed" the Cox plane. The curvature of the tip in planform was okay, but the curvature of the surfaces was all off. I found several pictures showing the tips at different angles and then just cut the tips off the wing skeletons and rebuilt them following the lines of the pictures. After the first one, it was just a matter of matching the other three tips to that one. The finished tips came out looking very good, closer than I expected. I found that if I reversed the ailerons (flipped them over and used the right side on the left, and vice-versa) that their end curvatures were right on the money for what I was trying to do, so I didn't do anything to them. I don't know what the kit's tips are like relative to true scale, but the same process to remodel them might work. I think the shape of the wingtip and the stagger of the wings are what sets the UMF/YMF apart from most other bipes and adds to its graceful looks.
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    Club Saito #2, WACO Brotherhood #20. What other trouble can I get into?


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