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-   -   SIG Kommander (http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/golden-age-vintage-antique-rc-196/4691217-sig-kommander.html)

CCRC1 08-30-2006 07:34 PM

SIG Kommander
 
I had been looking for one one these kits for awhile and finally found one here on RCU in the market place. Its one of those airplanes I always wanted to build but never did. It showed up at my house in perfect condition still shrink wrapped from the factory. :D But, I was a little surprised when I opened the box. All of the balsa parts are printed on the wood and not die crushed. Nothing my bandsaw can't handle but I got to wondering.
It must be an older kit from when it was first released. I am curious, when was the Kommander released on to the market? It is not listed on VRCS list so it must have been released after 1/1/70. I also noticed the kit has no full size plans, really don't need them because everything is printed on the wood. But, this is an airplane that will fade away for good because their are no plans to recreate a replica from.[sm=50_50.gif]
I hate to see a design fade away[sm=frown.gif]

Dr1Driver 08-30-2006 07:51 PM

RE: SIG Kommander
 
Try the SIG link at:

[link]http://www.sigmfg.com/[/link]

Maybe they have e-Mail where you can ask.

Dr.1

build light 08-30-2006 09:18 PM

RE: SIG Kommander
 
Quote by CCRC1:
"I hate to see a design fade away "

I am with you on that thought.
While the design belongs to Sig who no doubt owns the rights to this kit and the building instructions there is a wayu you can help others and promote the future of this plane and many like it.

Do a build thread on the kit and take lots of decent quality pictures of everything. make measurements. List the measurements. Show in as much boring detail as you can stand or are able to. For instance mesure the length and width of all the bulkheads giving thickness hight and width and the type of wood. Same thing with all the pieces. Measure the angle in degrees of the rake back of the leading edge of the stab, the trailing edge of the elevator.

I think you get the idea. Now for the odd shaped parts. for something like a wing saddle doubler ( or a wing rib in a kit that has a built up wing) draw a box around it with simple measurements for instant one inch increments. If you can scan an image of the full size part that includes that known measurement of lets say in the case of a wing saddle doubler 9 inches X 2 inches. This being known by using a program like Bipe Flyer's Tile Print anyone could print that scan with the outer dimensions of that box and whatever is inside the box will be correctly proprtionate no matter how complicated the angles are or curvatures might be!

Robert

Tripower455 08-31-2006 09:23 AM

RE: SIG Kommander
 
The Kougar was the same way...... Foam wing and printed balsa! I hated building that way before I had access to a scroll saw!

CCRC1 08-31-2006 10:25 AM

RE: SIG Kommander
 
Oh, I don't mind the build at all, its really pretty simple and straight forward. I just didn't realize there are no full size plans drawn of the airplane. I got to reading the instuction booklet last night and SIG specifically recommended against using "plastic covering". They recommended silkspan or cloth and dope. "Plastic coverings provide no tension strength and are not recommended".

I was just wondering if my kit was an early production kit and if SIG had updated the kit later and included plans and die cut parts? Also did they update later kits so that iron on covering, which became a standard in the hobby could be used?

I never realized SIG didn't use full size plans on all of their kits.:eek:

carlosponti 08-31-2006 02:41 PM

RE: SIG Kommander
 
i just sold my kommander. i just loved that plane. now i miss it maybe one day i will find a kit of one i can build. you should post some pictures of the kit and as you build it post some.

staggerwing 08-31-2006 02:52 PM

RE: SIG Kommander
 
The Kommander kit I built in 1998 (and still fly) had dicut parts along with the foam wing covered with balsa. I still have a second kit from the same time period on the shelf.

Rich

CCRC1 08-31-2006 03:26 PM

RE: SIG Kommander
 
Rich, could you check to see if the kit has a plan sheet? I had a feeling the kit would have been updated at some point. I wish there was a way I could compare the two to see the differences.
You sure are a long way from Maryland!:D Are the parts layouts still printed on the wood, even though they are die cut?

CCRC1 08-31-2006 03:53 PM

RE: SIG Kommander
 
OK, I just spoke with a rep at SIG's customer service. The Kommander kit never had a full size plan.[:o] They no longer have any parts (molded cowl or canopies) available. I guess I am on my own. [sm=71_71.gif]

staggerwing 08-31-2006 05:39 PM

RE: SIG Kommander
 
I'll pull the box over the weekend and take a look.

Rich

Jeff Foley 08-31-2006 07:18 PM

RE: SIG Kommander
 


ORIGINAL: CCRC1

Oh, I don't mind the build at all, its really pretty simple and straight forward. I just didn't realize there are no full size plans drawn of the airplane. I got to reading the instuction booklet last night and SIG specifically recommended against using "plastic covering". They recommended silkspan or cloth and dope. "Plastic coverings provide no tension strength and are not recommended".

I was just wondering if my kit was an early production kit and if SIG had updated the kit later and included plans and die cut parts? Also did they update later kits so that iron on covering, which became a standard in the hobby could be used?

I never realized SIG didn't use full size plans on all of their kits.:eek:
CCRC1,

I worked at Sig for a couple of years back in the mid seventies. Not all of their kits were without full size plans.....it was a cost savings measure to keep the price of the kits down. Plus, at that time we did not have the capability to die cut the thicker wood pieces. By allowing the modeler to cut out the parts himself, the cost of making the die as well as the labor of die cutting was saved. Most of the upper end kits had cut parts, plans and instruction booklets. I spent many a hour trying to get that large, very old printing press to run long enough to print the full size plans! I also worked on the instruction booklet for the Smith Miniplane, Doubler, Kavalier and the Colt.....which I designed. Had lots of fun working there and learned a lot. The weather was just a little too cold for a Carolina boy.

Jeff

CCRC1 08-31-2006 08:08 PM

RE: SIG Kommander
 
Hey thanks for the feedback Jeff,
I have a NIB Kavalier stashed away in the ol' kit inventory as well.
The Kommander was one of those kits I always wanted to build, just never got around to it. I flew one many years ago that belonged to another club member and really liked the way it flew. Kinda reminded me of the Top Flight Contender without the rudder problems.
I can duplicate all of the wood parts in the kit with no problem and copy the silkscreened parts on a large copier. I can use the canopy in the kit to make a plug to vacuum form a few more.
Dynamic Balsa has the foam wing core replacements on their web site if I don't feel like pulling out the bow. The cowl will be the most time consuming, its made out of that heavy plastic Sig uses and has an airscoop molded in. I have never molded my own cowl with fiberglass, but I guess its time I learned.:) Actually the more I look at it, I may have an easier time carving one out of balsa.

Taildragger726 08-31-2006 08:45 PM

RE: SIG Kommander
 
Well,,,is the Kommander VRCS eligible?:eek:

carlosponti 09-01-2006 10:32 AM

RE: SIG Kommander
 
fiberglass cowl for this plane can be bought at fiberglass specialties. just so you know. it sucks they dont carry the canopy anylonger.

http://www.fiberglassspecialtiesinc.com/


s. wallace 09-01-2006 10:54 AM

RE: SIG Kommander
 


ORIGINAL: Taildragger726

Well,,,is the Kommander VRCS eligible?:eek:
No, it is not VRCS legal and the organization has been steadfast in maintaining the current cut-off date. Too bad really as many, many fine designs were from the early-mid 70's.

Taildragger726 09-01-2006 10:56 AM

RE: SIG Kommander
 
Thank you sir,, I guess it will stay on the shelf for a few more years!

CCRC1 09-01-2006 12:05 PM

RE: SIG Kommander
 
Hey carlos, thanks for the referal. I will call Fiberglass speciaties Monday. I was thinking maybe one of the fiberglass cowl makers may have a mold for it. The canopy isn't a big deal for me, as long as I have the original I can make a plug and reproduce it.

CCRC1 09-01-2006 12:15 PM

RE: SIG Kommander
 
Taildragger, Its not currently listed on the VRCS approved plane list. That may not mean its not VRCS legal, just that it has not been submitted and approved. We just need to figure out if it was "kitted, published or flown" prior to 1/1/70. (Claude McCullough was the designer)
Because there is no plans, I don't believe it was ever published as a construction article.
I have a feeling it was released in the 1972/73 time period. I can find no date anywhere in the instructions or on anything in the box.

carlosponti 09-01-2006 02:25 PM

RE: SIG Kommander
 
i bought one off thier cowls off of [auction site] and used it till i sold the plane. great quality and strong better than the cowl that came with it.

build light 09-02-2006 12:53 AM

RE: SIG Kommander
 
1 Attachment(s)
I have been trying to do some research into when this kit was first kitted by Sig. So far nothing to report on this model but there were 7 models using the foam wing as advertised in the Jan 1972 issue of AAM. See the pic. The ealiest mention I have been personally able to come up with is in the May of 1970 and these were for the "2 new Sig R/C kit designs " which include the R/C Sport and the Beaver.

Not looking good foe the Kommander or Kavalier to be VRCS legal. If I find out different I will post.

Robert

tailskid 09-05-2006 10:57 PM

RE: SIG Kommander
 
I flew my Kommander for many years....loved the way it landed - that wide stance provided some gentle landings :) and corrected my errors in leveling the wing at the right time <g>......still looking for another kit of it - but would redo the canopy/wing attachment method.

tweedy 02-10-2007 10:48 PM

RE: SIG Kommander
 
The Komander was My Third 4 channel job after a Skylane 62 and a Trainermaster It flew great I had a early OS Wankel 30 in it fit in the cowl perfect radio was a MRC 710 the landing gear was a bit long and the wankel was margenal for take of in tall grass.

big max 1935 02-11-2007 04:28 PM

RE: SIG Kommander
 
I have a Kommander story that may give you gents a chuckle. Back in 1975 Bud's Hobbies (Council Bluffs, IA. ) & SIG Mfg. put on a all Kommander contest . It ran for two days with all kinds of different fun events . One was a beauty event .
I made my Kommander to look like a German WWII aircraft with all the crosses & camouflage paint job. It was powered by a Merco .49 with a dummy radial engine made from Williams Bros . cylinders & had Robart dummy strut covers on the landing gear.
All the planes were lined up along the flight line for the beauty event & the judging if I remember right was done by the contestants. Most of of us were in lawn chairs behind the planes along with Glen & Hazel Sigafoose with Claude Mc Cullough the designer . Hazel turned to me & asked me why I made my plane to look like it did ( only one with a strange paint job & dummy engine ). My quickest answer that I could think of was that if the Germans would have had a suicide plane in WWII it would have looked like a Kommander . Must have struck Glen funny as he about fell out of his chair laughing . I don't think Claude cracked a smile. I didn't win the beauty event . Max Hansen

TFF 02-11-2007 06:04 PM

RE: SIG Kommander
 
I helped a buddy in highschool build one. His first airplane a Falcon 56 folded its wing on its sixth flight because he used white glue to glue the center togeather. When he got the Kommander we were not going to have that happen again. we made a hardwood spar for the center about a foot long and then glassed it. Even if the plane is in a land fill now i know the center has held. We flew it with a K&B 6.5 FIRE and a Tower/Kraft radio. It flew great.

Tom

dmcmike 02-11-2007 06:57 PM

RE: SIG Kommander
 
Age wise, i think it first came out around '73 or so. I built my first one in '76, and if I remember correctly, it was a relatively new kit at that time. Flew great, but a bit underpowered with a .40 on it.


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