dale691

G'Day Bax,this may have already been asked but just wanting to add my support to the continued production of kits to build. I have recently been looking around for kits and all the suppliers down here have given me the same answer,it's extremely hard to find them.

I hope the big companies still consider the kit market to be alive and well, We would love to see some new kits come out, and judging by the amount of replies to posts like "where have all the kits gone" I am not the only one out there in need of a kit.

I realize kits are probably the smaller part of sales, but hopefully in these economic times people turn to traditional building. What I would love to see is some of the ARF aircraft be also offered as kits.

Thanks for reading

Dale

Bax

My Feedback: (11)

Kits are in such low demand that it's almost impossible to get a new kit idea into production. Very, very few kits will sell enough to justify the expense of design, testing, and tooling, let alone the advertising and actual production expenses. Even keeping older kits in production is chancy.

EscapeFlyer

My Feedback: (1)

How about considering a plans and template service? I'd rather plans build than use most, not all, but most arfs offered.

dale691

Thanks for the reply Bax, Sounds like I should be buying up every kit I see! The reason I mentioned the ARF aircraft being produced as a kit is that we have seen the reverse order done before ie. top flight mustang and GP super skybolt I thought there would be little problem producing the kit as I assume this is where an ARF starts out. Even ARC aircraft we see lurking around every now and then. I also understand that the price is better for an ARF but in most instances I think a lot of kit builders are not as price conscious and will pay for good products.

I realise that it is a pretty simplistic view I have laid out here, just to pull the kit from the production line prior to assembly, Just wishing there was a solution!

I know there are many people around that cut short kits, and I assume they are excellent quality but the main reason I would prefer a kit is having the accessories provided, like the cowl canopy/ windows. I don't know how other people get around this problem. I also know of the people that make these parts however the majority of cowls ect produced are for replacement purposes on pre existing kits. which before long won't be available!

So to sum up that last paragraph that doesn't make a lot of sense, If all the current kits are pulled from production and the plans are not released to smaller manufacturers, sure we will be able to get a cowl but there won't be a plane to put it on.

Not trying to bust your balls Bax, But down here in OZ we struggle at the best of times to keep up to the rest of the world with new products and it seems things are slowing at a great rate with what is being imported, so after building many many many ARF's I decided to go off on a tangent and build some kits mainly to see some different machines at our club, I'm now finding that the kit is a dyeing breed. It would be a shame for the kits to dry up, as they produce a fantastic final result. I noticed a few years ago there were quite a few Top flite kits in the place getters at top gun where soon if it keeps going competitions like this will be for scratch and plan builders only.

Cheers Dale

Bass1

"Very, very few kits will sell enough to justify the expense of design, testing, and tooling, let alone the advertising and actual production expenses." How sad! I used to look forward to the long cold winters almost as much as the warmer seasonal "flying weather". It was a time where you could settle in andget comfy in your workshop watch the snow fall and winds blow and build and detaila nice kit of your choicein anticipation of spring when you would finallyget out to the field (comfortably)and fly your work of art!! It kept your spirits high and turned the winter doldrums into something you could look forward to. Oh well, I guess I could build from plans or scratch build but that requires more tools andor degree in aeronautical engineering to get the desired results.

fireman7875

My Feedback: (7)

I would like to add my 2 cents as well as my support for the kit market. I am a kit builder at heart,although I have owned several ARF's. I will always prefer building because it is what got me into the hobby to begin with. I admit that I don't know a lot about the production of kits but I would like to pose a question/ suggestion. Wouldn't the continued production of kits be more feasible with laser cutting? If so, why not convert all kits to laser cutting? I realize there are elements to that conversion that I don't know about but consider another possible consequence of stopping kit production: there is still a sizable builder population which may lose interest in the hobby should kit production cease. New ideas keep people interested in the hobby. Without new kits, builders will increasingly lose interest in the hobby. I, for one have not built a kit in quite some time partially due to a lack of new kits on the market. That's not to say that I have built everything out there just that there isn't as much that interests me. I would like to see some more civilian giant scale kits made available; no, I don't mean Yaks, Extras and Edges. I am talking about Cessnas, Pipers, home builts, Beechcrafts, etc. I believe this could be an entirely new market for the kit industry. With laser cutting the production can be easier and variable. That is, you don't necessarily have to run $1000 kits at one time. Am I completely off base here or am I on to something? Has Great Planes or any other major manufacturer considered a venture like this?

Brian

Bax

My Feedback: (11)

High-speed production is just not possible with laser cutting. The laser can only cut so fast. If you get a more powerful laser to increase cutting speed, you also risk setting fire to the wood you're cutting. It is also very expensive to get one that's large-enough to cut large sheets of balsa. Couple that with the fact that you cannot cut thick pieces of wood without a fire hazard, and lazer cutting turns out to be OK for small sizes of balsa sheet that are not too thick.

To produce parts fast enough to make reasonable production numbers, you need several laser cutters. Remember, these are not inexpensive.

Another thing to consider is the fact that older kits would have to have considerable CAD time to convert the old hand-drawn files to the digital files the laser cutter's control computer needs.

Finally, there's been quite a bit of controversy over how well glue adheres to the charred edges of laser-cut wood.

Laser cutting is not the "be all, end all" solution many people seem to think it is.

fireman7875

My Feedback: (7)

Well, there's the reason I said I don't know much about kit production. I would certainly hate to see kits disappear. I sincerely hope that Great Planes and other manufacturers will do everything they can to keep kits in production and even introduce new kits.

Brian

Bass1

Looks like somebody is still buying kits. This company is backordered until the end of the year! http://www.kitcutters.com/

Bax

My Feedback: (11)

Yes, they are a small operation that will cut parts for plans-built model airplanes. They are not a mass-production operation. You can see from their website that they hand-make parts, which is not feasible for mass production.

stevenmax50

My Feedback: (1)

I will NEVER, NEVER, NEVER buy an ARF.  I will only build kits.  And apparently I will be buying my kits online as my local hobby shop has a 90% stock of ARFS.  I understand some people do not have building skills.  But I believe the bigger problem is our instant gratification society.  Why take 3+ months to build your own when you can fly tomorrow?  For me, I have to have some gratificatioon out of saying that bird flys because I built it right.  ARF's are for the lazy IMHO.  There is always time to build.  You just have to make it a priority.  I am covering my current model with fabric and dope.  I should be in the air in less than a month.  I cannot possibly see how an ARF flyer can have any where near the pride in his model as I have in mine.  I do understand to each his own.  But it sickens me that ARF's are the predominant product available.  I guess that some day soon I wil have to learn to scratch build. 

GlenH

Your sentiments regarding ARF match my own. I have always felt that the personal satisfaction of seeing something fly that I built has always been a large part of what kept me in the hobby as both a kid and an adult. Your feelings are held by many others though and I have spoken with hundreds of ARF flyers that have had enough of ARF planes and want to get into building (or go back to building). One problem with some of these flyers though is that they never gained their building skills, while they were gaining their flying skills (something that traditionally went hand in hand). So they face the dilemma of wanting an advanced plane for their first building project, which can often be a fair challenge, at best.

As far as new kits go, I can’t speak for other small manufacturers, but we (GDH Planes) will be coming out with new kits over the next 18 months and although we discontinued two short kits this year, it was in preparation for their replacement with slightly larger newly redesigned versions next year (as full kits). Also, we launched our 1/5.5 scale “Texas Wildcat” in April and hope to launch our 1/5.5 scale “Cactus Kitten 2” before Christmas. We are hoping to release a ¼ Cactus Kitten 2 next year.

Regards,

Glen Harbottle
GDH Planes
www.gdhplanes.com

Bax

My Feedback: (11)

We've let this go too long. This really isn't a discussion forum, so we're closing the thread.