osterizer

Well, with that, man, if you have local support and parts for the 450XS, then I'd be hard pressed to come up with a better alternative-- it's really a great heli. The Caliber is, too, but that's a different forum .

In seriousness, if you can fly a Blade CP, and you can afford a good motor, ESC, gyro and radio, then after the Blade you're going to fall in love with any 450 on the first flight; if you have local parts support and others flying the MX450XS, then it's going to be a good choice for you. We'll be around, too, if you have other questions.

FYI, a basic setup on the 450XS is as follows:

Ammo 28-45-2700 motor, Ikarus 14T steel pinion (tower for the motor, hobby lobby or ikarus-modellbau.de for the pinion)
Futaba S3107 servos x 3 (swash)
Futaba S3154 servo (tail)
Futaba GY401 gyro
Castle Creations Phoenix 35 ESC (RB has the 60A version- bigger is better)
GPMP0617 battery (tower) or MegaPower MP2100203 (helidirect), both 2100mAh 20C LiPo (get three- you'll need them)*

If you want a heli of a plane, the following are the parts that will make it sing:

Align BL430XL motor - this is what I'm running; it's loud but lots more powerful than the Ammo; use a 10T pinion from Ikarus or Revco
MAH 315 Carbon main blades - absolutely the best, but sometimes hard to find
Main Gear - microHeli MH-XH4102 - no slop, much better machining than the OEM
Tail Unit - microHeli MH-TX4142TSE - the best tail for 450-size helis, period.

* you could also consider the GPMP0613 1500mAh; for learning and sport flying, it's lighter so you get about the same flight time, but it doesn't have the power for 3D. You won't need that power for a while, though, and they're cheaper. With the Ammo motor you'll get 8-10 minute flights, and with the Align, 10-14 minutes.

You'll also need a charger for the batteries; I have a GP Triton and Polycharge 4, with 4 Equinox balancers (one for the Triton, all of them for the PC4), but there are less expensive alternatives-- shop around.

For the radio, I have a T9CAP, too-- you already have the best so keep it . Futaba will be coming out with a FASST module for it soon, so maybe you should wait. I use the R146iP receiver in my helis in the meantime. If you want a 2.4 right now, I'd look at the 6EXH FASST system. The Spektrum radios were first, but the Futaba kit, as usual, is more expensive and better engineered.

fetrix

Cool that is the info I wanted!!! I have question though, can I use the aling motor with a GP LiPo 3S 11.1V 2100mAh 18C Discharge and the stock blades?( i have 2 already for my F-27 stryker) and, which ESC would you recommend for the best performance? Also do you know where I can order everything so I don’t need to order all the things separately? I dont want to buy another radio so do I just use PCM reciever ?

osterizer

The 18C batteries look like they'll fit. I typo'd above-- the 2100s I have are GPMP0617, not 619. Sorry .

ESC? you can't go wrong with the Castle Creations Phoenix. I have the 35, RollingBall the 60. The 35 works well, but the 60 is probably bulletproof on this heli. Others on this thread use the Align ESC, so I'll leave it to them to comment on that one.

You can get everything I listed from Tower Hobbies except the Align motors-- HeliDirect serves their orders well and has a good lineup of Align parts.

For the receiver, the R146iP is a good (but pricey) PCM receiver that works with the PCM1024 from the 9C. If you want your investment to last a while, and you're worried about interference, waiting for the FASST module for your 9C might be a better choice, but it's going to be expensive.

IMPORTANT NOTE: Check your transmitter. If you have the T9CAP, then the above is fine. However, if you have a T9CAF (FM only) you'll need to use an FM receiver like the R156F.

fetrix

Yes, I think I will wait just for a month, though, i will get the castle creations (60) and i will use the stock blades. I will use the align motor, and i think the size of the fasst reciever will be fine. The gyro ans servos are not a problem... you talk to you later!!!

fetrix

* talk to you and thank you

rollingball

Speaking of Align motors sent my return request to HD the same time I posted the blunder from Align and at 8:30 Sunday night I get a RMA #, so off it goes. How about that for service and on a Sunday evening.[sm=thumbs_up.gif]

Fetrix good job with the picking of the 450, I like a lot, it was a stepup from the HM Axe it was like night and day, I too have a King it is a quirky little bugger, oh what fun these little guys are.

Also all the mods that Osterizer mentioned in the above postes I use too, it makes the heli fly much better.

The CC 60 for me is like a gateway of options with 60 amps of continus power just about any kind of motor can be used. The ESC also has a 3 amp BEC, so there is a lot of options in gyros and servos. No problems overheating the ESC part or BEC part.

If your are lucky you will have a good set of FG Blades right out of the box, I did but others did not, Once you get a set of MAH blades you won't turn back.
You can also get RevCo pinions from ReadyHeli. I just started using them. I have 12T so far so good, they are a bit noisy at first but set in fast and my set up the only thing that can be heard is the blades and a slight whirr of the motor, Right now it is the Ammo 24-45-3600 til I get my 430XL back.

You can check out the mad scientist version of this forum at RC Groups Mini section: The Officiial HM MX450XS thread.
It's the basic blog of all the crazy parts and setup I have done to my 450

fetrix

Its me again
do I need a special pinion for the aling motor? and do I change the main gear? ( I dont understand the difference)[&:]

fetrix

It also says that you cant use the gyro with digital servos and the tail one you recomended is one, so, is it ok?

osterizer

Hi, fetrix. You should use a 10 or 11 tooth pinion for a 3.17mm shaft on the Align 430XL. I like the Ikarus steel pinions, but there are a lot of different options.

From the above I don't know what gyro you're going to use-- the GY401 and S3154 servo are a great combination for this heli. The 401 is intended to be used with digital servos.

easternav

I can't get the !@%$% blades to track. [:@]Just replaced main shaft, feathering shaft and the center hub set. anybody else having this problem?

osterizer

Is it new? On mine, I couldn't for the life of me get the OEM FG blades to track, so I bought aftermarket blades instead. I've had better luck with the MAH tapered 315s (very nice) and the SAB straight 315s (OK). If you've crashed it you may have another problem, but FWIW.

[]TEX[]

The stand offs on the seesaw could be warn, tighten those up and move the flybar side to side with your hand. The screws should not come loose. If it loosens up, you need to replace the stand offs. If they don't loosen up, just tighten them enough to where the seesaw doesn't move by it'self after tapping a paddle(fall all the way down to one side). They should only move if you push them with your finger. Don't make them too tight, if it feels like it is binding it is too tight.

It'll take a few times, but that will fix your tracking issue.

fetrix

Hello its me again!
Final review[8D]
Futaba S3107 servos x 3 (swash) (tower)
Futaba S3154 servo (tail) (tower)
Futaba GY401 gyro (tower)
Castle Creations Phoenix 60A ESC (tower)
Align BL430XL motor(??)
Ikarus 14T steel pinion (in which single store can i get the motor and pinion?)
FASST module w/reciever (8 chanel)(tower)
GP LiPo 3S 11.1V 2100mAh 18C Discharge (tower)
Stock blades? ( if not can i get them where i got the motor and pinion?)
THANKS AGAIN!

easternav

Thanks but I did not get to the forum in time.
Went out earler and was just hovering around and all of a sudden (I was in complete controll till)[sm=confused.gif]bam it went straight to ground. Come to find out the same to srews that tex was talkin about were missing in action. I'll make sure every thing has locktie for now on. Does anybody sell just the srews and standoff by there self? they have the part # in the manual.
Oh yea I'm runing the align wood 325.

osterizer

fetrix-- with the 430XL you shouldn' t use more than an 11 tooth pinion. I don't know anywhere that sells those and the Align motors, but maybe someone else? Make sure you get the 3.17mm shaft version.

easternav-- check the tower parts page for the MX450XS at http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...=HMXE0210&P=OW

easternav

I just found them I was just over looking them.[8D] Does any body have a gy240 that is using the headlock? And what is the avantage of this?

osterizer

I use the 401. The advantage of the heading hold function is that it remembers where you put the tail and tries to put it back if it gets moved (by torque, crosswind, whatever). The alternative, a rate function, only tries to stop motion once it starts (cancel) not put the heli back where it was (compensate).

Patented

An update on the dual battery setup. I tried the 2 - 1500mah in parallel with the heli tethered to the work bench. Balancing requires putting one battery at an angle against the front of the frame. With the heli hovering above the bench and tight against the tether I'm getting 13+ minutes using the Ammo motor. Don’t have the 430 yet so this is still a work in progress to get the balance perfect. I've done short flights on one battery and get about 6-7 minutes each so it doesn't look like I'm hitting the weight penalty with the two 1500s. I'm waiting on another battery mount and the 430 to give the final results.

I finally got the boom mounted servo and boy, what a difference that made. I know, I know...sometimes I just have to figure it out for myself.

Just to let you know the iterations of the designs I tried ... I first added a 3/32 aluminum tube to the outside of the stock metal pushrod to form a rod-in-tube pushrod. I had to drill out the rod mounts, but I figured I would do that anyway if I ended up at carbon fiber and boom mount. Sure enough, the aluminum tube almost completely eliminated the flex in the metal rod. This still left the s3107 in the frame mount, but it still didn't have the authority I wanted/needed for the tail control. I had the ball mounted on the innermost hole which limited the travel and I still didn't have the torque to get good control on the tail at high rotor speed.

Next, I changed out the metal/aluminum rod in tube for a 2mm carbon fiber pushrod. No rod flex, but still not enough power from the s3107. Decided to go to S3115 (new version of s3101) to max out torque (38.9) just because I had one sitting around for another project. I had ordered the boom mount based on your advice and it arrived this morning so I put it and the servo (s3115) on today at lunch. Wow, huge amount of control. Full throw at high rotor speed (kind of scary actually). Had to drop the gyro percentages down in the 30's to stop the wag, so that faster s3154 will probably be in my future. I haven't completely given up on the stock red tail yet for the micro heli one, but you guys sure are persuasive...

Finally, now that I've moved the servo to the boom I still want to protect the gyro so I have a question on the 401 mount. I currently have it on top of the back of the frame, but now that I moved the servo onto the boom I have this big gaping hole in the frame where the servo used to be. Has anyone flipped the gyro tray upside down and put the gyro in the original position of the tail servo?

[]TEX[]

They sell them at Tower easternav.

Quick comparison shot, MX450 blade next to Raptor 50 MAHBlade.

Please excuse my nasty carpet....

[]TEX[]

Got some dirt samples with the Blade CP Pro this morning.....

Off to the hobby shop.....*sigh*

osterizer

Ha, at least I only prune, not cultivate . That puppy is a LOT harder to maintain yaw attitude with in flips/loops-- I never could roll it worth a darn, but supposedly that's the least traumatic way to get it inverted. (In truth, I've cleaned a lot of debris out of mine-- recall it was my first CP)

You're not going to quit until we all buy Raptors, too, are you? Going to have to wait for a little while, but it's going to be loads of fun, I'm guessing.

On the other hand, I did get the Helimax carbon paddles and tail blades in the mail today. I haven't been able to really fly them yet, just puttering around in the garage (didn't get home until midnight), but the paddles make a huge difference in the cyclic response, if only by getting rid of the 7lb weights in the stock paddles-- it's nice and snappy now by comparison. It doesn't make a diff in the ultimate roll rate, just makes it start a lot faster; I like. I didn't notice any real change with the tails, except that subjectively the gyro seems to work a bit better stopping the tail (there was a little hunt before, but not now). I really won't know about that until I can get outside and play.

Downside: the paddles loosened on their hubs (noticed after the trim flight). I'm going to take them off and CA them to the hubs before I fly them again. Those things can do serious damage if they come off. Still like them.

rollingball

A Raptor 50 is bigger than my backyard. If I go next door I might get it airbourn and just might pyro the tail one time with out hitting anything.

[]TEX[]

Mine did to, used CA.

osterizer

Well, so much for that fabled Align quality. First Rollingball's shaft broke, and now mine-- went to fly it this afternoon, heard a poof as I was taking off, rotor speed plummeted, and smoke came out of the heli. Appears that the motor burned up, and better still, it took the Phoenix with it; I put the Ammo back in to test after taking the smoking lump out, and the ESC won't run at anything but full throttle now. Sometimes, some situations, profanity is called for.

rollingball

Well back to where we started with our trusty old Ammo motors,