Baroncowboy

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Alrighty Then....As Ace Ventura Would say....
Time to put a head lock on some unanswered questions...
Ive been noticing alot of hoopla from random people in the Savage forum these days,and I have been trying to make sence of it all with no luck....So heres a couple of questions for anyone who has the answer....
1-What is all the gripeing about compareing one MT to another,saying which one is better?
2-What is it with everyone having drive train problems,wineing about spur gears melting,and saying larger tires are a bad deal to tranny components ect.

Starting with one> First off,this has to be the stupidest argument of all time...
Anyone thats been into RC long enough,"and I have 13yrs. now",will tell you every RC aplication period has its pro's and con's...For instance...Anyone who knows anything about MTs will tell you that a stock T-Max/Revo is without an argument a faster accelerating MT than a stock Savage,and also that a Savage is without a doubt,tougher than The T-Max/Revo...The Team Losi LST is a little of both,and "Team Losi"its self in my opinion have the best off road racing vehichles on the earth,noted by their winning streak since like the 80's< lol... However I dont really like the fact that they made it so heavy,and more like an oversized 4x4 racing buggy instead of a lifted MT....
But thats just my Opinion...Just go with what ever truck gives you the most excitement...I mean with all the hop-ups thats out there,you can make d*** near anything indestructable,or race ready...So whats the argument,do you wanna race it,or own a Monster Truck?
I love it how people buy a Monster Truck for its size and clearence,then they rush right out to buy lowering TVPs for a handleing improvement...Haha...Why not buy a touring car and put a lift kit in it so it handles the dirt a little better?...Just seems to me people dont know what they want...

Now for #2. If you are stripping plastic spur gears,in your hopped up savage....>
BUY A METAL ONE...I have been running a savage thats had 3 different motors,and two sets of 40 series"Big Joe's" on it,for two and a half years and havent striped that robinsonracing steel combo yet...If you own a savage,and plan to run larger wheel and tires,and/or putting a larger power plant in it,you should know,you might aswell put alloy diff cases and the 4 bevel gear upgrade in your diffs aswell as a metal spur...You should also be running atleast 5000wt oil in the rear diff and 7000wt up front.<You'll get way better steering response due to better power distribution,not to menchen,it reduces gear wear at the same time....
If your gonna run larger tires,this setup will hold up better than a Sherman tank...
Thats all I have to say I guess,so feel free to give me your opinions.... Adios,Josh

PS. Heres Links for the hop-ups I menchened if your a new Savage owner>
Go to www.hpiracing.com for the bevel gears and a metal spur gear
Or go to www.robinsonracing.com for their steel spur and bell combo...Oh yeah,and if you go with a robinson,make sure you run their clutch bell with their spur...No other bell will hold up,as no one else seems to harden the metal as ridgid as ronbinson's steel,so it'll simply chew up cheaper made clutch bells as if they where the plastic...<Ask me how I know!
Go to the SC store at> www.savage-central.com and type "diff case" in the search block

Stablock

Re-hehehehe-hehehe-eally!

Baroncowboy

My Feedback: (1)

Hahaha ....Nice one Stablock!

DaveG55

Sorry guy, those questions will remain unanswered.
You're NEVER gonna get agreement on you Revo/T-Maxx/Savage statement.
You're NEVER gonna get agreement on your spur gear "required" upgrade statement
If there were any kind of agreement on those two points alone this section of the board would be 30% smaller than it is.

The only thing I think you MAY get agreement on is "Go with whatever truck gives you the most excitement"
I'll agree with that part.
The rest, nah, I don't agree.

Polar_Bus

Sorry, I TOTALLY disagree with this comment. Why? A replacement steel spur is a band-aid for a more serious issue elsewhere in the drivetrain. If steel spurs were needed, HPI would have them on a Savage out of the box stock. I have trashed 3 spurs in my 3 years owning 2 different high powered Savages. All three spur strippages were COMPLETELY my own fault, and all 2 were from front impacts, and running my slipper tight. The third strippage was when my engine mount loosened up. Everything happens for a specific reason (stripping spurs). Slapping in a steel spur is simply passing possible stress breakage to a more expensive drivetrain component, other than the spur gear itself.

As Polar_Bus would say imitating Ace Ventura: "SPANK YOU......., SPANK YOU VERY MUCH"!

RenegadeRevo

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Agreed the truck vs. truck statement... not sure about the spur gear (don't own one... can't comment on it)... first off, the Revo is a COMPLETELY different truck than the T-maxx. The T-maxx was a great truck, but Traxxas made the Revo much stronger, more agile... and all-around better-built.

I also agree with the "Go with whatever truck gives you the most excitement"... that's what I did... the Savage was cool with it's "higher stance" (since the Revo that I first saw was in "racing" stance...) but the Revo got me excited about paying $500+ to get into the hobby... before I purchased, I went to a local LHS race in a parking lot... There were all kinds of trucks there from Mammoth MT to Losi LST, T-maxx, Revo, and Savage 25.... the LST won the "long jump" competition.... the Revo won the road course... and I THINK the LST took the drag race, too... but some of the faster trucks didn't compete (T-maxx w/ Picco .21)... I remember seeing the Savage... and I'm sure it was because the owner didn't have it tuned... but it just seemed like a PIG... it didn't handle well... didn't accellerate well... as a matter of fact, I MAY still have it on video... if I can dig it up... LOL Everyone has a certain truck because they like it... I mean... I wouldn't backup the Revo so much if I disliked it (as Spurface does)... and Savage owners wouldn't back up their trucks if they didn't like it either... so... just find what makes you happy... and get it... and LOVE it.

Buzzbait

I just don't see the sense in running a steel spur. It just masks problems in other areas. I have yet to see a spur issue that wasn't the fault of another piece of the truck, other than the odd crazy collision or a rock getting wedged in the spur teeth.

When my spur teeth were melting like crazy, I could have gone to a steel spur. But if I had, I would never have noticed my overheating clutch problems, which were literally turning my clutch bearings purple. The steel spur would have prevented the teeth from melting, until the bearings finally seized up. But what would have happened if the steel spur was added and the bearings finally seized up? It wouldn't have been pretty. I might have trashed the engine.

Baroncowboy

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OK,I can dig people not going with my truck vs. truck comments,but as I stated before,that is only my opinion...However,you guys have got to be kidding me about the plastic spur trash....
Their is no way that anyone can tell me that an 11.5 pd truck that's had a true high performance engine replace the stock engine and has been tuned correctly,is going to work with a stock "molded composite" spur gear....Hahaha...RIDICULOUS! But I wouldnt know a thing,I mean 12 years of compitition obviously didnt teach me a thing,aswell as being the head tech for local hobbie shops for the last 4 years,and driveing,flying,and floating anything that has R/C stamped on it....
The thing that kills me about some of "you'll trash the tranny if you run steel gears"guys,is the fact that you apparently overlooked that Losi XXX-NT Stadium truck...I have owned a few of these and even they use a special nylon/kevlar spur gear,BECAUSE STOCK PLASTIC SUCKS![:'(]
And the only reason that they dont use metal spurs,is because unlike the Savage,their dual pad slipper actualy does its job...Not to menchen Losi is really the industry standard when it comes to home grown composits/plastics anyhow...So if their stock spur wont hold up on a two wheel drive ST that weighs a fraction of a Savage,what in blue blazes makes you think a stock plastic spur is going to hold up in a 4x4 bowling ball? Come on peolple...Get real! Accept the fact that HPI screwed up on their spur and slipper design and upgrade it to the truck it should be...Kinda like all the T-Maxx guys had to accept the fact that Traxxas made their proclaimed"Revolutionary" piece of junk of a drive shaft design,that all ultimately got replaced with MIP dog-bones...
And one other thing....As I said earlier,I have worked right in the local hobby shops and have yet to see one of my Savage customers come crying to me about their tranny getting gutted because of a metal spur gear...Granted,when a metal spur is inplace,you should have metal diff cases and 4 bevel gears as well,but this should have also been standard in the Savage line and was a stupid mistake buy HPI...I knew this 3 years ago,but apparently all the manufacturers are just catching on since the new Savages and other MT makers are including either the 4 bevel gears,and/or metal diff cases....Now what ground do you stand on to pose and argument with me now???
Im sure someone does,so lets hear it.... Adios once again,for now....

DaveG55

See what I mean....You'll never get agreement. You believe what you believe and others believe what they believe. Your experences are yours and theirs are theirs. And never the twain shall meet.
All in all, I don't see any hope for this thread to be anything but the "same ol, same ol"
Yaaawwwwwnnnnnnnn

Baroncowboy

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Yeah,I guess your probably right...But its just funny how new unexperienced people hear something another unexperiened person tells them and they take it to heart,and then enough RC'ers hear it till the guy that does have alot of experience starts to believe their garbage,or they just look at what happens to them in one scenario with one specific part in one happening and all of the sudden turn against that part when ANOTHER part fails....Haha just seems to me that everyone wants their cake and eat it to...
I dont know why some people bother upgrading at all...If Your going to replace one component with an upgraded stronger,a higher performance component,why would you think that the rest of that aplicatable area wouldnt need attention aswell...Its kinda like buying that .21 mid-block engine for your T-Maxx persay,and chokeing it with a muffler designed for a .15 engine,and complaining that the engine isnt performing as you had expected...Like buying a house near a train track and gripeing about the noise from the train.... Haha Just kinda dumb really....

Buzzbait

It's too bad you're not listening. Lots of us are running our "high performance engines" with plastic spur gears. We are having no problems with our spurs.

Dave33

My Feedback: (2)

I've run an SH.28 and a collari .30 using the same spur gear and guess what...it's plastic. I only had one stripped spur gear and that's when I lost a clutch bearing. If the mesh is correct they will last a long long time.............

Baroncowboy

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Well,I guess you guys gotta be the luckyest Savage owners on the planet....Either that,or you dont truely bash em as others including myself do,and what size tires are you running,because I might buy into a plastic spur holding up to stock wheels,but if you are running a true high end motor,40 series or larger wheels and tires,and truely bash'n em....Well....You guys must truely be the Savage kings.....
And "Buzzbait",I was listening alright...Up untill the part where you said you could have possibly trashed your engine if your clutch bell would have seized....Now you tell me,how in the heck that would happen...If a motor locks up every time it gets stopped ubruptly,then how do those airplane guys afford to buy a new engine every time a prop strikes the ground??? And if your truck stops moving and you hear alot of load on the engine,it would probably strike me in a way that I would probably stop the engine from running to fix the problem before it burns up....
Im listening alright...Im just not hearing what your saying,as none of it really adds up...

PSG-1

i'm running a mach .26 which is alot more powerful than stock savage. Plastic spur gear holds up fine with the right mesh... and i bash hard. 10-15 foot jumps backflips... the whole 9 yards.

Polar_Bus

Obviously you enjoy blowing your own horn, so now I will blow mine. EVERY MT racer I know does NOT run steel spurs, why add uneccessary weight to an already heavy vehicle? Why spend $30 on a steel spur, and then have to buy hardened clutchbells (the stock Savage clutchbells are too soft and quickly get destroyed by a metal spur, so thats another $17) But you knew all this because of your VAST in depth hobby knowledge right?. A "molded composite" spur is CHEAP insurance against jamming a pebble in a race, effectively locking up your drivetrain and possibly breaking something. A "molded composite" spur has "give" to it, steel spurs have NONE. This is exactly the same reason you should never run any "bling" aluminum components on a MT. Aluminum passes impact stresses to mating composite components causing them to prematurely fail. ) But you knew all this because of your VAST in depth hobby knowledge right?. Racers run carbon fiber, and graphite fiber parts, they are superior in strength while still having some "give", and extremely lightweight. This is what makes a MT fast AND durable AND reliable. As far as us not bashing our trucks as hard as you do, get off your high horse. As I read more and more of your posts, I realize all you are doing is talking a bunch of B/S. I seroiously doubt you even work for a hobby shop. Absolutely every claim you make is totally opposite to what I hear from seasoned RC racers and hobby shops. So if you want to keep arguing go some place else. I am done with this thread. Keep in mind this is all just my experienced opinions from hangin out with dozens of racers, THEY know what it takes to keep a MT running, and running strong.

David236

I can beleive some of you have had no problems running the plastic spurs on dirt but if you run on grass they won't last long.......And I have been into R/C's for 20 years as well as raced and yes in certain applications metal parts are not the way to go. But in the case of the savage the metal spur WILL NOT and CAN NOT cause damage to other components...The Slipper will prevent this from happening...

David236

And as far as all this talk about weight and low rotaing mass.....take a ping pong ball and a golf ball go outside and throw them with the same amount of force and tell me which one flies further and faster.....

Buzzbait

I run mostly on grass with my plastic spur. I also do a lot of hill climbing at an abandoned construction site. No stripping problems.

crop

can't quite comprehend what you mean by this comparison. If you mean the greater rotaing mass of a steel gear helps accelertation, I simply doesnot agree with it. It's totally different. Should you want state this comparison, you'll need to exclude the air resistance, say, a vacuum condition, in which the pingpong ball can go as far as a golf ball.

I had my savage 2 years ago, the first plastic spur gear lasted 1 year and a half, going through a stock 25 engine, an SH 28 without problem. And this spur gear with another one was striped by my fualt, once by untightened screws, another by not noticing the nut on spur gear went oose. I bashed a lot before go race , but rarely had accidents such as bumping into a tree. The biggest tires I ran were stock tires however, maybe my dislike towards 40 series and my carefulness drive had saved my a lot of spur gears.

Baroncowboy

My Feedback: (1)

Thank you David236.... Now Polar_Bus ,Im not trying to tick you off,but I know what Im talking about.
I have worked for hobby shops in my area wether you wanna believe it or not...Truth is,I plan to open my own hobby shop with in a year or so...And fact is,in general,I do have a "Vast R/C knowledge",and I challenge you to a dual!...."Just kidding,about the dual part"....But just because you like your plastics,doent mean that they will work for the the general Savage owner in normal backyard situations....You said the key word when you said "MT RACER"...Chances are,if they are a true MT racer,they're MT's are lightened up conciderably,not to menchen as David236 said,more than likely run them mostly on dirt... Also about the extra weight in the steal gears....In some cases extra weight is a plus,and not always a bad thing....Your looking at from a true scale indy cars perspective...Most all indy cars have really light flywheels so the engine can quickly rev up to those high RPMs...Right?
But you need to remember that an indy engine can spin a ridiculous 16,000 RPMs and they weigh hardly a fraction of a normal cars weight also,so torque isnt an issue since the there is hardly any weight involved....Now take a look a real life monster trucks engine....Way more power,but way less RPMs,and a whole lotta weight to tug around...If you look at his fly wheel,and drive train components all together,I'll bet you money its all really heavy...This is because for one,they have to have it like this so it will hold up,and two that extra weight causes extra rotating mass and produces alot more torque for climbing things,while at the same time making it alot harder to stop as a result of extra torque...Im probably not explaining this to everyones understanding so I'll use David236's ball example in a different light... Take that ping pong ball and roll it up a hill,and then the golf ball at the same rate of starting speed....The golf ball will roll futher up that hill every time,because its alot harder to stop something with more rotating mass...
You must have missed that part in all your readings where I said,what do you want? An MT,or a race truck....If I want a race truck,I can tell you now,Im not going to buy an MT when I can have a ST that'll blow it out the water on a true race track anyhow... I think this MT racer stuff has gotten a little outa hand really...I mean what was the point in makeing a Monster truck to tear it down,to make it something it wasnt suposed to be to start with...I just find it somehow humorus how the more the MT line evolves,the more they seem to be looking more and more like a buggy,or an ST....Now that statement is truely just my opinion...So take no offence in it...
But if they keep it up,sooner or later someones gonna realize..."Gee Im right back to a 4x4 buggy that happenes to have MT stuck to it"....
I dont know about you guys,but when I buy a monster truck,thats what I want...Thats why I picked the Savage over even my favorite R/C maker Team Losi...Because its a true MT...

XtmSucks

This has absolutely nothing to do with rotating mass!

Polar bus and buzzbait are completly right. I dont care how you look at it....A plastic spur gear is better all around.

Here i'll post this again on this forum sence Baroncowboy obviously has no clue what so ever as to what hes talking about. If your having any! and i mean any! spur problems this will help.

This should be a sticky!

Do not go to any metal spur gear. The extra rotating mass isnt needed and will slow down accelleration a tad and it will hide any other issues with the drivetrain you may have. The spur gear is made out of plastic for a reason. Say something gets loose in the tranny and you have a metal spur.....you wont know about any binding untill its to late because the metal spur wont break.

If your melting/stripping spurs then these are some reasons as to why.

Melting: Clutchbell is getting to hot and heating up the teeth on the spur enough to make them weaker and break/strip them. Or your slipper is set to loose and its heating up the center of the spur and melting it.

Fix: If its melting at the teeth,,,then your clutch is worn out. Either springs or clutch shoes. Now is a perfect time up upgrade to some 1.0 springs and aluminum clutch shoes. If its melting at the center of the spur gear.....oops the nut either loosened up and backed off some or you set it to loose to begin with.

Stripping: The clutch bell and spur gear aren't meshed right. Or the spur has a defect in it and it wobbles on the tranny when you spin it(had it happen). Also make sure that all the screws that hold the tranny in place are nice and snug. Including the 2 screws under the truck that hold the tranny to the engine plate. Also same goes for all the screws holding the motor plate to the tranny...they should be nice and snug and even threadlocked sence its metal into metal.

Fix: This mainly takes practice and time. Once you have it down you can tell just by "feel" you'll know if its right or not. Go the the LHS and pick up 2-3 spurs. Its good to have backups anyway. The paper method is my fav for setting the mesh. Take a small piece of paper....fold it in half and slide it between the spur gear and clutch bell. Then push them tightly together. Snug up all 4 engine mount bolts and then spin the spur gear and see if it spins freely or if it binds. If it binds then just try again.


This should help!


So you go ahead and be happy with your metal spur and your lack of knowledge as for how to mesh the clutchbell and spur and your crap clutch that is causing the teeth to melt.

Some people who except when there wrong no matter what....Those people are reffered to as THICKHEADED

electrogoneglow

I don't even understand why the Savage and the Revo keep being compaired to each other, they are two totaly different classes of truck.

Savage = 1/8 scale basher.

Revo = 1/10 scale racer.

Jason

electrogoneglow

this makes absolutely no sence at all, you are talking about weight and it's relitivaty to velosity, which has nothing to do with rotating mass.
what your talking about requires linear force, rotating mass requires torque.

Jason