Savage X 4.6 RTR, break-in problem :(
07-07-2007, 11:04 PM
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Savage X 4.6 RTR, break-in problem :(
Hi there,
i am completely new at this hobby and it is my first time ever owning a nitro vehicle. i just bought an RTR Savage X 4.6, and today i tryed to start it up and do the break-in. my first mistake was that i flooded the engine. but i took the plug off, spun the engine and got the fuel out. after giving it another shot, the engine started, but it only ran for about 5 seconds. i have tryed about 30 times to get it to go, playing with the needles and reseting them to the factory settings. the car still only runs for about 5-15 seconds, then stalls. i noticed that there is alot of fuel coming out of the exaust pipe. is the mixture wayyy too rich?? i have also installed a FINE fuel filter (could that be causing it?)
i'de greatly appreciate it if someone could help me, thanks!!
i am completely new at this hobby and it is my first time ever owning a nitro vehicle. i just bought an RTR Savage X 4.6, and today i tryed to start it up and do the break-in. my first mistake was that i flooded the engine. but i took the plug off, spun the engine and got the fuel out. after giving it another shot, the engine started, but it only ran for about 5 seconds. i have tryed about 30 times to get it to go, playing with the needles and reseting them to the factory settings. the car still only runs for about 5-15 seconds, then stalls. i noticed that there is alot of fuel coming out of the exaust pipe. is the mixture wayyy too rich?? i have also installed a FINE fuel filter (could that be causing it?)
i'de greatly appreciate it if someone could help me, thanks!!
07-08-2007, 01:11 AM
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RE: Savage X 4.6 RTR, break-in problem :(
Tune everything back to factory setting and then turn your high spe' needle 1/8 counter-wise for a more rich setting, which is more perferable to me =] Anyways, after you do that, prime your engine, and then try starting it again but with your hands on the throttle; throttling pluses of 10~15% 'til your engine warms up to around 220 F and then you let go of your thorttle. And if your engine stalls, higher your idling rpm 'til it is at a stable level. *shrugs* correct me if i'm wrong. That's how i got my engine started. 
Oh, you show also look up at the two ways of breaking in your engine:
1. The heat cycle method
2. Idling method
Just look do a search and u'll find plenty of results =]
Oh, you show also look up at the two ways of breaking in your engine:
1. The heat cycle method
2. Idling method
Just look do a search and u'll find plenty of results =]
07-08-2007, 01:22 PM
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RE: Savage X 4.6 RTR, break-in problem :(
dave683, i dont think uve understood my situation. i mentioned the fact that i noticed that theres alot of fuel thats just being spit out through the exaust. this led me to believe that the engine is running very rich. however, i dont understand why this is happening at factory settings. also, the wheels are already turning when the truck is off the ground, so increasing the idle speed, i think, would make em spin even faster.
as far as leavin the glow plug igniter in there, thats very bad for the plug and i dont think its too good for the igniter either [
]
im going to see what i can do today, in the meantime, any extra comments would help and ide appreciate it.
thanks!
as far as leavin the glow plug igniter in there, thats very bad for the plug and i dont think its too good for the igniter either [
]im going to see what i can do today, in the meantime, any extra comments would help and ide appreciate it.
thanks!
07-08-2007, 08:53 PM
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RE: Savage X 4.6 RTR, break-in problem :(
read my reply more carefully. I said only increase idling rpm IF ur engine stalls. And since in the case of yours, decrease your idling rpm. But as i said before, heat up your engine first by pluses of throttling. It is fine. Mine was spiting a load of oil as well. I broke in using 20% / 16% oil.
At the beginning, just leave your glow ig' 'til your engine can idle at a stable rpm. I took my glow ig' off once my engine reached 200F for the first couple starts.
At the beginning, just leave your glow ig' 'til your engine can idle at a stable rpm. I took my glow ig' off once my engine reached 200F for the first couple starts.
07-08-2007, 10:44 PM
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RE: Savage X 4.6 RTR, break-in problem :(
Ok, i see what your saying. Only thing is, ive tryed to give it a little more throttle and it worked fine, i did it for about 2 mins, but then it ended up stalling at one point. and even after restarting it, it was still stalling. also, when the car is on the ground it keeps jerking since the clutch keeps wanting to engage, so i think the rpm is high enough.
thanks for ur help.
thanks for ur help.
07-09-2007, 01:03 AM
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RE: Savage X 4.6 RTR, break-in problem :(
Hi there, In my opinion the low speed needle is far too rich, so engine loads up with fuel and stops. If this is happening, you can feel the engine slowing down as if getting choked and then stop after few secs. Good luck!
07-09-2007, 01:54 AM
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RE: Savage X 4.6 RTR, break-in problem :(
Yup, factory settings are supposed to be rich...so yea lean it out a bit if you cant get it to run. As mentioned above there are two distinct methods of breaking an engine in, the way the book says (idle for two tanks first) or there is the heat cycle.
Most experts say the heat cycle will give you the best long term result, do a search if you want to know more, but in a nutshell with the Heat Cycle method, you must get the temps to 200F while running as rich as you can, the best way to do this is to put an old sock around the head (so the cooling fins arent lowering the temp) and run the engine at that (or around) that temp for two minute cycles and then letting the engin cool (with piston at the bottom of its stroke, BDC (bottom dead centre)). Ypu do this for so many minutes (about 20 total) then start leaning it out...like I say there are better discriptions of the method on the net...
Either way, take your time and be patient, and we are here to answer your questions...
Most experts say the heat cycle will give you the best long term result, do a search if you want to know more, but in a nutshell with the Heat Cycle method, you must get the temps to 200F while running as rich as you can, the best way to do this is to put an old sock around the head (so the cooling fins arent lowering the temp) and run the engine at that (or around) that temp for two minute cycles and then letting the engin cool (with piston at the bottom of its stroke, BDC (bottom dead centre)). Ypu do this for so many minutes (about 20 total) then start leaning it out...like I say there are better discriptions of the method on the net...
Either way, take your time and be patient, and we are here to answer your questions...
07-09-2007, 07:42 PM
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RE: Savage X 4.6 RTR, break-in problem :(
thanks for everyone's replies. what i ended up doing is going to the hobby store and the guy there helped me out.
so almost everything you guys have said was true. my idle speed of the engine was a little too low, so the engine had a hard time starting and also was why it kept stalling. so i ended up driving it arround at half throttle, with the engine being extremely rich. and it ran perfectly, as long as it didnt slow down too much.
So im fine with the engine, but now i have another issue. this has to do with the breaks. They are extremely weak even with the screw at max, and i even placed a piece of tubbing instead of that little spring(works much better).
however, the servo only turns very slightly (about 1/4 as much as the throttle direction), so the breaks dont go on too tightly.
is this normal, or could there be something wrong with the servo? if so, can it be fixed? how are the breaks suppose to work. this is also a dual-break system, so it should be pretty darn good.
thanks once again!
so almost everything you guys have said was true. my idle speed of the engine was a little too low, so the engine had a hard time starting and also was why it kept stalling. so i ended up driving it arround at half throttle, with the engine being extremely rich. and it ran perfectly, as long as it didnt slow down too much.
So im fine with the engine, but now i have another issue. this has to do with the breaks. They are extremely weak even with the screw at max, and i even placed a piece of tubbing instead of that little spring(works much better).
however, the servo only turns very slightly (about 1/4 as much as the throttle direction), so the breaks dont go on too tightly.
is this normal, or could there be something wrong with the servo? if so, can it be fixed? how are the breaks suppose to work. this is also a dual-break system, so it should be pretty darn good.
thanks once again!
07-09-2007, 09:34 PM
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RE: Savage X 4.6 RTR, break-in problem :(
i had the same problem with my new savage a couple days ago. it kept fluding it. it ended up clearing the engine out about 4 time. a waisted almost a half-quart of nitro trying to start it. i got a friend to help me. the factory settings are WAYYYYYY to rich to run the truck. he told me to lean the HSN all the way by tightening it as far as it will go, then richening it 3 full turns to the left. this setting is alot leaner than the factory setting but is the only was i could get it to run. it is actually running very rich still. after break in i will run it a little leaner. i did not adjust the LSN yet but it is also very rich.
07-09-2007, 09:41 PM
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RE: Savage X 4.6 RTR, break-in problem :(
i had problems with my brakes also (our trucks have something in common) I tightened my servo screw all the way(it should be about 3/4 inch of threads showing) after that you just need to fine tune your throttle trim on your remote. turn it as far as you can with out affecting the idle speed. it only takes about 1/8-1/4 turn from full brake. the the idle speed changes or you notice your throttle excelerating when turning the trim nob you have gone to far.
hope this helps. that was my stratagy
hope this helps. that was my stratagy
07-10-2007, 12:24 AM
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RE: Savage X 4.6 RTR, break-in problem :(
Yup, as far as the engine is running, its true, it is running extremely rich. but i managed to solve that issue by keeping the revs up. once im done my 6th tank, im going to start tunning it. at that point everything should run fine.
as far as for the brakes, as i said before, ive used a piece of tubing instead of that stupid spring, and i adjusted the triming just like u said. as much as possible without affecting the throttle speed.
but even so, the servo hardly moves back and my brakes hardly go on. its like as if it doesnt have any power in that direction, or as if it doesnt wanna go as far. Im probably going to end up going back to the hobby shop once again and asking them to fix my break if i cant do it myself. they better solve my issue!! lol
thanks alot for ur help!
as far as for the brakes, as i said before, ive used a piece of tubing instead of that stupid spring, and i adjusted the triming just like u said. as much as possible without affecting the throttle speed.
but even so, the servo hardly moves back and my brakes hardly go on. its like as if it doesnt have any power in that direction, or as if it doesnt wanna go as far. Im probably going to end up going back to the hobby shop once again and asking them to fix my break if i cant do it myself. they better solve my issue!! lol
thanks alot for ur help!
07-10-2007, 02:07 AM
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RE: Savage X 4.6 RTR, break-in problem :(
On my savy x i installed the "DD" set up. What a difference in breaking. Than i did a Ofna Throttle Mod. This Gave me alot more brake adjustment.
Do a search and look at some of the setups. This will Really Help you!
Do a search and look at some of the setups. This will Really Help you!
07-11-2007, 05:34 PM
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RE: Savage X 4.6 RTR, break-in problem :(
Here is a little update on my situation up to date:
i have gone through 4 tanks of fuel still running extremely rich. i am going to run it for 1 or 2 more tanks and then its time to tune it and rip it [sm=lol.gif]
as for my brake issue that i had, i took a close look on how the stock system works. it uses that metal ring(spring) to push the throttle arm forward, while it puts ALOT of strain on the servo when the brake is being pushed since the throttle arm remains stationary while the brake arm moves to the left. that seems like the MOST RETARDED!! idea i have ever seen. so i read up on all the linkage mods (including the OFNA mod), and went and got myself a pair of Collars, a pair of guides and a longer rod. i have therefore eliminated that retarded spring method and the servo has full strength now. the brakes went from hardly coming on (no braking at all) to being able to flip the car over. lol.
for reference, here is the link i went to for guidance: http://www.savage-central.com/module...wtopic&t=45250
my system looks EXACTLY the same as that, only i used Tubing instead of the spring on the brake, and i shaped my rod to the same shape as the stock rod, since a straight one would have hit the rollcage.
in my opinion, this brake mod is a MUST!!! and should have already been used by HPI. the servo cant take the pressure of the metal ring mechanism.
thanks!!
P.S. the new linkage system also adds the benefit of the throttle always being fully closed at idle. extremely helpful
i have gone through 4 tanks of fuel still running extremely rich. i am going to run it for 1 or 2 more tanks and then its time to tune it and rip it [sm=lol.gif]
as for my brake issue that i had, i took a close look on how the stock system works. it uses that metal ring(spring) to push the throttle arm forward, while it puts ALOT of strain on the servo when the brake is being pushed since the throttle arm remains stationary while the brake arm moves to the left. that seems like the MOST RETARDED!! idea i have ever seen. so i read up on all the linkage mods (including the OFNA mod), and went and got myself a pair of Collars, a pair of guides and a longer rod. i have therefore eliminated that retarded spring method and the servo has full strength now. the brakes went from hardly coming on (no braking at all) to being able to flip the car over. lol.
for reference, here is the link i went to for guidance: http://www.savage-central.com/module...wtopic&t=45250
my system looks EXACTLY the same as that, only i used Tubing instead of the spring on the brake, and i shaped my rod to the same shape as the stock rod, since a straight one would have hit the rollcage.
in my opinion, this brake mod is a MUST!!! and should have already been used by HPI. the servo cant take the pressure of the metal ring mechanism.
thanks!!
P.S. the new linkage system also adds the benefit of the throttle always being fully closed at idle. extremely helpful
07-15-2007, 06:09 AM
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RE: Savage X 4.6 RTR, break-in problem :(
I am planning to buy SAvage X 4.6 RTR and just wondering if this RTR has a reverse or do i need to get the reverse kit. I am leaving in SAudi Arabia and parts are very limeted to nothing so I was trying to buy everything I need one time since I will be ordering it through the internet.
Also if you have suggestions additional parts that i should be needing in the near future to avoid delay for the shipping. ( Necessary parts ). I will not race or join any competition, this will just for bashing out in the dirt..
Any help from you guys would be appreciated.
Also if you have suggestions additional parts that i should be needing in the near future to avoid delay for the shipping. ( Necessary parts ). I will not race or join any competition, this will just for bashing out in the dirt..
Any help from you guys would be appreciated.
07-15-2007, 09:25 AM
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RE: Savage X 4.6 RTR, break-in problem :(
No, the car does not come with a reverse, but there is definetly a kit or something that you can buy to get the reverse. personally i have no idea what exactly you have to buy or how much it costs because i was never interested in it. as far as extra parts, if you are refering to the extra things needed to run the car, they are: Glow plug igniter, 7.2v battery along with the charger and the fuel. also if u dont have 12 AA batteries, ull need those as well. Thats it for the essential things. and u might want to get the bottle to hold the fuel in.
if your refering to car parts, i dont think ude need anything other than parts for the linkage mod. as i mentioned before, stock linkage will get u NOwhere. the easiest way to mod it is to get a guide (centre piece that the throttle rod goes into and rotates) and 2 washers. THATS IT! and ur set. and a spring from a pen. and u might wanna consider using tubing for the brake. u can cut that from ur fuel line.
Good luck.
if your refering to car parts, i dont think ude need anything other than parts for the linkage mod. as i mentioned before, stock linkage will get u NOwhere. the easiest way to mod it is to get a guide (centre piece that the throttle rod goes into and rotates) and 2 washers. THATS IT! and ur set. and a spring from a pen. and u might wanna consider using tubing for the brake. u can cut that from ur fuel line.
Good luck.
07-15-2007, 09:39 AM
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RE: Savage X 4.6 RTR, break-in problem :(
ORIGINAL: xXxCellARatOr
dave683, i dont think uve understood my situation. i mentioned the fact that i noticed that theres alot of fuel thats just being spit out through the exaust. this led me to believe that the engine is running very rich. however, i dont understand why this is happening at factory settings. also, the wheels are already turning when the truck is off the ground, so increasing the idle speed, i think, would make em spin even faster.
dave683, i dont think uve understood my situation. i mentioned the fact that i noticed that theres alot of fuel thats just being spit out through the exaust. this led me to believe that the engine is running very rich. however, i dont understand why this is happening at factory settings. also, the wheels are already turning when the truck is off the ground, so increasing the idle speed, i think, would make em spin even faster.
And yes, increasing the idle speed will make the wheels spin faster.
07-15-2007, 02:07 PM
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RE: Savage X 4.6 RTR, break-in problem :(
lmao... I just got my 4.6 yesterday and I'm running into the exact same probs. IN FACT I use to have a 4.1 X and I had those probs too! So YES you will need to lean out the truck to enable it to run right.
07-15-2007, 03:24 PM
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RE: Savage X 4.6 RTR, break-in problem :(
Yup, leaning it out is one of the options. but the way i did it, was to just increase the idle speed, just to keep it running. this way the engine was still lubricated properly like it should be during the break-in process, yet it was able to run. and since i did the break-in by driving it up and downt he road at very low speed, the high idle speed causing the truck to move wasnt really a problem either. and once the break-in was fully done (i chose to go for 6 tanks) i started leaning it out. and once i finished that, i also adjusted the idle speed. my truck is running flawlessly now and its soooo much fun haha!
and its soooo much fun haha!
07-15-2007, 03:59 PM
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RE: Savage X 4.6 RTR, break-in problem :(
Ok just got back from the hobby guy. This guy was a God. Here are a few tips when breaking in your X.
1.) Loosen the glow plug just an 1/8th of a turn. You don't want too much pressure inside the engine while its trying to run. That will cause it to stall out w/in a few seconds. When you start it (With the glow plug ignitor still on) spin the the ignitor to the right to tighten it up a little since its running.
B.) You don't have to have the Raido on the truck and the remote ON. When you turn these on they auto center which if you're going to try to break the truck in the folling way I'm going to tell you, you don't want that.
Look at the servo for the throttle, with the truck and transmitter OFF just push it a tiny bit to open up the throttle. Since the power is off the throttle will not move AND will not auto center. With this YOU DO NOT HAVE TO MESS WITH ANYTHING and can run it rich as HPI intended for break in. Eventually the idle will become more evident as the truck breaks in and you won't have to do that anymore. And TA- DA! There you go!
For the BRAKES, just cut a little of the fuel line that you don't need and place it between the spring and you're brakes will be fine!
1.) Loosen the glow plug just an 1/8th of a turn. You don't want too much pressure inside the engine while its trying to run. That will cause it to stall out w/in a few seconds. When you start it (With the glow plug ignitor still on) spin the the ignitor to the right to tighten it up a little since its running.
B.) You don't have to have the Raido on the truck and the remote ON. When you turn these on they auto center which if you're going to try to break the truck in the folling way I'm going to tell you, you don't want that.
Look at the servo for the throttle, with the truck and transmitter OFF just push it a tiny bit to open up the throttle. Since the power is off the throttle will not move AND will not auto center. With this YOU DO NOT HAVE TO MESS WITH ANYTHING and can run it rich as HPI intended for break in. Eventually the idle will become more evident as the truck breaks in and you won't have to do that anymore. And TA- DA! There you go!
For the BRAKES, just cut a little of the fuel line that you don't need and place it between the spring and you're brakes will be fine!
07-15-2007, 09:40 PM
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RE: Savage X 4.6 RTR, break-in problem :(
3 guys with identical problems. i think i need to let hpi know that there needs to be improvisions to their break-in method. factory settings are way to rich for the truck to run and just flood it when u try to start it for the first time
07-16-2007, 02:54 PM
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RE: Savage X 4.6 RTR, break-in problem :(
only1balto, yeah that way of breaking it in is also an option. thats the same thing as either keeping ur finger on the throttle if ur radio is on. the way u did it, u dont have to hold it anymore. but also, what u can do, is just adjust the idle speed. the only thing that the idle speed screw does, is to prevent the gap from closing. same as holding the throttle open, only its done by the idle screw.
personaly, i decided to just slowly drive the truck arround with it running extremely rich.
as for the brakes, replacing the spring with fuel line was the very first thing i did before i even started driving the truck. doing that just simply wont do anything, because it isnt a matter of the servo not being able to push it far enough, it just doesnt have the strength since its all going into that retarded spring mechanism. the only way u may be able to drive arround with the stock system, is on grass, where you hardly need any braking power due to the friction of the grass. with my brakes, i was going full throttle and i broke too fast and my truck did about 6 front flips. LOL! it was awsome. obviously i never did it again. however, on pavement, the truck take about 5-10 meters to stop from full speed (even with the modded linkage). thats fine, but incase of imergency, i dont think it will be enough. with the stock system, it would have taken about 100 metres to stop. lol. im exagerting, but they would have taken wayyyyy more to stop.
personaly, i decided to just slowly drive the truck arround with it running extremely rich.
as for the brakes, replacing the spring with fuel line was the very first thing i did before i even started driving the truck. doing that just simply wont do anything, because it isnt a matter of the servo not being able to push it far enough, it just doesnt have the strength since its all going into that retarded spring mechanism. the only way u may be able to drive arround with the stock system, is on grass, where you hardly need any braking power due to the friction of the grass. with my brakes, i was going full throttle and i broke too fast and my truck did about 6 front flips. LOL! it was awsome. obviously i never did it again. however, on pavement, the truck take about 5-10 meters to stop from full speed (even with the modded linkage). thats fine, but incase of imergency, i dont think it will be enough. with the stock system, it would have taken about 100 metres to stop. lol. im exagerting, but they would have taken wayyyyy more to stop.
07-17-2007, 09:31 AM
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RE: Savage X 4.6 RTR, break-in problem :(
ORIGINAL: xXxCellARatOr
only1balto, yeah that way of breaking it in is also an option. thats the same thing as either keeping ur finger on the throttle if ur radio is on. the way u did it, u dont have to hold it anymore. but also, what u can do, is just adjust the idle speed. the only thing that the idle speed screw does, is to prevent the gap from closing. same as holding the throttle open, only its done by the idle screw.
personaly, i decided to just slowly drive the truck arround with it running extremely rich.
as for the brakes, replacing the spring with fuel line was the very first thing i did before i even started driving the truck. doing that just simply wont do anything, because it isnt a matter of the servo not being able to push it far enough, it just doesnt have the strength since its all going into that retarded spring mechanism. the only way u may be able to drive arround with the stock system, is on grass, where you hardly need any braking power due to the friction of the grass. with my brakes, i was going full throttle and i broke too fast and my truck did about 6 front flips. LOL! it was awsome. obviously i never did it again. however, on pavement, the truck take about 5-10 meters to stop from full speed (even with the modded linkage). thats fine, but incase of imergency, i dont think it will be enough. with the stock system, it would have taken about 100 metres to stop. lol. im exagerting, but they would have taken wayyyyy more to stop.
only1balto, yeah that way of breaking it in is also an option. thats the same thing as either keeping ur finger on the throttle if ur radio is on. the way u did it, u dont have to hold it anymore. but also, what u can do, is just adjust the idle speed. the only thing that the idle speed screw does, is to prevent the gap from closing. same as holding the throttle open, only its done by the idle screw.
personaly, i decided to just slowly drive the truck arround with it running extremely rich.
as for the brakes, replacing the spring with fuel line was the very first thing i did before i even started driving the truck. doing that just simply wont do anything, because it isnt a matter of the servo not being able to push it far enough, it just doesnt have the strength since its all going into that retarded spring mechanism. the only way u may be able to drive arround with the stock system, is on grass, where you hardly need any braking power due to the friction of the grass. with my brakes, i was going full throttle and i broke too fast and my truck did about 6 front flips. LOL! it was awsome. obviously i never did it again. however, on pavement, the truck take about 5-10 meters to stop from full speed (even with the modded linkage). thats fine, but incase of imergency, i dont think it will be enough. with the stock system, it would have taken about 100 metres to stop. lol. im exagerting, but they would have taken wayyyyy more to stop.
Eh- Don't listen to me. I'm STILL having trouble breakin' in. That guy just made it look SO easy! I can get it to start but it will cut off within a few seconds. Even adding some throttle isn't really working. It'll just cut off. This doesn't happen to everyone? Its not just me? Like I said my last X did it too so its probably just me.
07-17-2007, 02:17 PM
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RE: Savage X 4.6 RTR, break-in problem :(
If i were in ur shoes, i would first try to turn the idle needle one full turn Clockwise. that should keep u high enough without the car actually running away on its own. then i would lean the HSN 1/2 a turn to 1 full turn. i can guarantee u that it will still be extremely rich at that point. if its still not enough, also lean the LSN about 1/4 turn to 1 full turn, depending on how ur car is doing. Mine also used to stall alot, but thats because this is my first time EVER in the nitro hobby, so i was just begining to figure things out. so the way i did it, was to start the car up (by giving it a tiny amount of gas from the radio) and then with the glow plug igniter still in there, rev the engine to about half throttle about 3 times. This warmed the engine up fast and kept it going. once the engine would actually run, i quickly started driving it arround. never full throttleing it, but even if i did, the engine would have probably stalled or done nothing (no throttle response). oh and btw, when u begin driving arround, do it real slow, or else ur going to flood the engine. ull be able to go faster once the engine is FULLY warmed up.
good luck.
P.S. my truck is running PERFECTLY now and ive already started doing slight modifications. including the linake mod, exhaust deflector, painted my cooling head after skratching it 
lol. anyone interested in pics, let me know . and now im working on getting/making suspension covers/sleeves.
good luck.
P.S. my truck is running PERFECTLY now and ive already started doing slight modifications.
including the linake mod, exhaust deflector, painted my cooling head after skratching it lol. anyone interested in pics, let me know . and now im working on getting/making suspension covers/sleeves.