axial motors question
02-02-2008, 02:31 PM
#101
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RE: axial motors question
ORIGINAL: rican25
tib... I have an Axial .32 in my truggy and a friend has the Picco .28 in his, so maybe we can run this litte test you and bud are so eager to try and end the debate. I am not doubting the Picco at all I have heard lots of good things about it and have also heard lots of carb issues on these threads about it. not taking buds side but hes not the only one with the problems it seems. I would hardly call the 32 a dud!! of course thats with me getting off a junk, POS motor that came with my Hyper and right on the 32. the thing screams and dont think about just hitting the throttle and holding it straight it really does pull pretty hard!! I would have to find someone that can drive as well as my buddy but I am sure we can line them up pretty soon and I will let you know what happens at least in this instance. it will be in a track setting as I dont see the need for a drag race as the truggys just arent built for that type of racing. I will get back to you guys on this soon I hope.
tib... I have an Axial .32 in my truggy and a friend has the Picco .28 in his, so maybe we can run this litte test you and bud are so eager to try and end the debate. I am not doubting the Picco at all I have heard lots of good things about it and have also heard lots of carb issues on these threads about it. not taking buds side but hes not the only one with the problems it seems. I would hardly call the 32 a dud!! of course thats with me getting off a junk, POS motor that came with my Hyper and right on the 32. the thing screams and dont think about just hitting the throttle and holding it straight it really does pull pretty hard!! I would have to find someone that can drive as well as my buddy but I am sure we can line them up pretty soon and I will let you know what happens at least in this instance. it will be in a track setting as I dont see the need for a drag race as the truggys just arent built for that type of racing. I will get back to you guys on this soon I hope.
I know people have issues with the Picco carbs...but its easily corrected with some sealing ..the carbs themselves work very well, they just can have leaks......... Power wise the Picco FTT should be noticeably stronger and revvier then your Axial..... But it seems not everyone can dial a Picco in so its hard to say what you'll see from your freinds.....Dial in a Picco P3 28 FTT, or a P7R EVO 2, or a JLR Red Dot .12 and theres nothing that runs like em......
02-02-2008, 02:35 PM
#102
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RE: axial motors question
Maybe I looked up the pull start Picco when I found the 34,000 rpm max, and the difference in timing would account for that. I think Picco is right on the money with their application, they built an engine with lower rpm and more low torque than yours. It is as close to running an Axial 32 as I have found, but it has a power curve that is much steeper. If you have it pulling hard and it comes into the power band, it will lift the front tires. No letting off the fuel and smacking it to make it stand up. In that respect, it is stronger than my 32. Right off the idle and up, the 32 has it and this is a Picco 28 that is not running properly. The 28 may smoke the 32 when it gets right, time will tell. My argument all along has been that they are all rated at 34,000 and if that is what the engines are capable of turning, they are about equal on top speeed. If one or the other will pull a thousand or two more rpm, you would not be able to tell that just by driving it. BB
02-26-2008, 09:44 AM
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RE: axial motors question
Just to bring everybody up to speed, I mounted my original Picco 28 pull start on a Truckzilla chassis, which is longer and a lot heavier than a regular Savage with a set of large tires and wheels. I have since bought a third Picco 28 and mounted it on a regular Savage chassis. I had a new Hot Bodies Pipe and manifold here and the Picco does not like that at all. I had to open the needles a long ways from stock to get it to run and it still goes lean in the higher rpm range. Lean enough that I am not going to push my luck trying to run it hard. In addition, I tried the stock Hpi polished pipe and it is not much better, if any. I have a ribbed Hpi pipe here someplace, but cannot locate it. I may have pitched it as it was pretty nasty looking.
The tallest gear set I can get in the Truckzilla chassis without cutting the chassis plate is a 16/46.... I have read that guys are running a 20/47 and even 20/48 with their Picco 28s. From the power I am seeing, I do not doubt that. Now I am waiting for another Picco friendly pipe to arrive. I also have purchased a bump start Picco 28 and put it in a buggy that I plan to equip with larger tires and wheels.
I can tell you that the bump start or turbo head 28 definitely sounds like it wails and has a lot more rpm potential than the pull start Picco. I still think the difference in speed between the Axial 32 and the pull start Picco is going to be minimal. I also think that equally set up, the Picco will run away from the Axial in a drag race. I still think the Axial will pull very close to the same upper rpm.
I have several Gps units and will strap one on and get the top speed for each, I will have to finish breaking in the 3rd Picco first. The Truckzilla would not be a fair race as it weighs almost 14 pounds, almost three pounds more than the stock Savage and wheels. I will try to get a video of the Savage running wide open with each engine.
I will say that the statement "Put a Picco in and your Savage will be faster" is not true at face value. The Picco will likely self destruct from going too lean on the Savage pipe. I will also say that SuperTib has been more than cooperative, in spite of the back and forth bickering we had on this thread. If you listen to him, he will point you in the direction of some serious power.
I was just going to let this debate die, but now I am curious myself. Just dropping a Picco in will not get it done, you need a pipe and some taller gears to take advantage of the power. Whether the Axial 32 can pull the taller gear and enough rpm to keep up with the Picco remains to be seen. I think it will. I sure took a lot of heat from a forum member that does not even own a Picco over this thread. He is still posting that he hopes to buy one soon, I hope he does, so he can quit blowing smoke. BB
The tallest gear set I can get in the Truckzilla chassis without cutting the chassis plate is a 16/46.... I have read that guys are running a 20/47 and even 20/48 with their Picco 28s. From the power I am seeing, I do not doubt that. Now I am waiting for another Picco friendly pipe to arrive. I also have purchased a bump start Picco 28 and put it in a buggy that I plan to equip with larger tires and wheels.
I can tell you that the bump start or turbo head 28 definitely sounds like it wails and has a lot more rpm potential than the pull start Picco. I still think the difference in speed between the Axial 32 and the pull start Picco is going to be minimal. I also think that equally set up, the Picco will run away from the Axial in a drag race. I still think the Axial will pull very close to the same upper rpm.
I have several Gps units and will strap one on and get the top speed for each, I will have to finish breaking in the 3rd Picco first. The Truckzilla would not be a fair race as it weighs almost 14 pounds, almost three pounds more than the stock Savage and wheels. I will try to get a video of the Savage running wide open with each engine.
I will say that the statement "Put a Picco in and your Savage will be faster" is not true at face value. The Picco will likely self destruct from going too lean on the Savage pipe. I will also say that SuperTib has been more than cooperative, in spite of the back and forth bickering we had on this thread. If you listen to him, he will point you in the direction of some serious power.
I was just going to let this debate die, but now I am curious myself. Just dropping a Picco in will not get it done, you need a pipe and some taller gears to take advantage of the power. Whether the Axial 32 can pull the taller gear and enough rpm to keep up with the Picco remains to be seen. I think it will. I sure took a lot of heat from a forum member that does not even own a Picco over this thread. He is still posting that he hopes to buy one soon, I hope he does, so he can quit blowing smoke. BB
02-26-2008, 10:21 AM
#104
Senior Member
RE: axial motors question
ORIGINAL: BudBud
Just to bring everybody up to speed, I mounted my original Picco 28 pull start on a Truckzilla chassis, which is longer and a lot heavier than a regular Savage with a set of large tires and wheels. I have since bought a third Picco 28 and mounted it on a regular Savage chassis. I had a new Hot Bodies Pipe and manifold here and the Picco does not like that at all. I had to open the needles a long ways from stock to get it to run and it still goes lean in the higher rpm range. Lean enough that I am not going to push my luck trying to run it hard. In addition, I tried the stock Hpi polished pipe and it is not much better, if any. I have a ribbed Hpi pipe here someplace, but cannot locate it. I may have pitched it as it was pretty nasty looking.
The tallest gear set I can get in the Truckzilla chassis without cutting the chassis plate is a 16/46.... I have read that guys are running a 20/47 and even 20/48 with their Picco 28s. From the power I am seeing, I do not doubt that. Now I am waiting for another Picco friendly pipe to arrive. I also have purchased a bump start Picco 28 and put it in a buggy that I plan to equip with larger tires and wheels.
I can tell you that the bump start or turbo head 28 definitely sounds like it wails and has a lot more rpm potential than the pull start Picco. I still think the difference in speed between the Axial 32 and the pull start Picco is going to be minimal. I also think that equally set up, the Picco will run away from the Axial in a drag race. I still think the Axial will pull very close to the same upper rpm.
I have several Gps units and will strap one on and get the top speed for each, I will have to finish breaking in the 3rd Picco first. The Truckzilla would not be a fair race as it weighs almost 14 pounds, almost three pounds more than the stock Savage and wheels. I will try to get a video of the Savage running wide open with each engine.
I will say that the statement "Put a Picco in and your Savage will be faster" is not true at face value. The Picco will likely self destruct from going too lean on the Savage pipe. I will also say that SuperTib has been more than cooperative, in spite of the back and forth bickering we had on this thread. If you listen to him, he will point you in the direction of some serious power.
I was just going to let this debate die, but now I am curious myself. Just dropping a Picco in will not get it done, you need a pipe and some taller gears to take advantage of the power. Whether the Axial 32 can pull the taller gear and enough rpm to keep up with the Picco remains to be seen. I think it will. I sure took a lot of heat from a forum member that does not even own a Picco over this thread. He is still posting that he hopes to buy one soon, I hope he does, so he can quit blowing smoke. BB
Just to bring everybody up to speed, I mounted my original Picco 28 pull start on a Truckzilla chassis, which is longer and a lot heavier than a regular Savage with a set of large tires and wheels. I have since bought a third Picco 28 and mounted it on a regular Savage chassis. I had a new Hot Bodies Pipe and manifold here and the Picco does not like that at all. I had to open the needles a long ways from stock to get it to run and it still goes lean in the higher rpm range. Lean enough that I am not going to push my luck trying to run it hard. In addition, I tried the stock Hpi polished pipe and it is not much better, if any. I have a ribbed Hpi pipe here someplace, but cannot locate it. I may have pitched it as it was pretty nasty looking.
The tallest gear set I can get in the Truckzilla chassis without cutting the chassis plate is a 16/46.... I have read that guys are running a 20/47 and even 20/48 with their Picco 28s. From the power I am seeing, I do not doubt that. Now I am waiting for another Picco friendly pipe to arrive. I also have purchased a bump start Picco 28 and put it in a buggy that I plan to equip with larger tires and wheels.
I can tell you that the bump start or turbo head 28 definitely sounds like it wails and has a lot more rpm potential than the pull start Picco. I still think the difference in speed between the Axial 32 and the pull start Picco is going to be minimal. I also think that equally set up, the Picco will run away from the Axial in a drag race. I still think the Axial will pull very close to the same upper rpm.
I have several Gps units and will strap one on and get the top speed for each, I will have to finish breaking in the 3rd Picco first. The Truckzilla would not be a fair race as it weighs almost 14 pounds, almost three pounds more than the stock Savage and wheels. I will try to get a video of the Savage running wide open with each engine.
I will say that the statement "Put a Picco in and your Savage will be faster" is not true at face value. The Picco will likely self destruct from going too lean on the Savage pipe. I will also say that SuperTib has been more than cooperative, in spite of the back and forth bickering we had on this thread. If you listen to him, he will point you in the direction of some serious power.
I was just going to let this debate die, but now I am curious myself. Just dropping a Picco in will not get it done, you need a pipe and some taller gears to take advantage of the power. Whether the Axial 32 can pull the taller gear and enough rpm to keep up with the Picco remains to be seen. I think it will. I sure took a lot of heat from a forum member that does not even own a Picco over this thread. He is still posting that he hopes to buy one soon, I hope he does, so he can quit blowing smoke. BB
Sweet writeup..... I dont take any of the arguing personal, i just like people to know the truth...even if the truth proves me wrong in the end....there is far too much wrong information being passed around........
Yes now your seeing why I say the big stinger Savage pipes are not suitable for higher RPM applications.. I took serious heat all over the forums for telling people to ditch the HPI polished pipes...........The Hotbodies pipe i really though was a identical clone to the HPI polished pipe, they both have massive stingers...... The HPI ribbed will be even worse on top end, as its even more open........Apparently the TSAIS M-25 is a very good pipe..but it also has a large stinger ..many people have assured me its top end is as good as a 086...but it is a big stinger pipe and if it doesnt have proper backpressure the motor will run lean
02-26-2008, 12:13 PM
#105
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RE: axial motors question
ORIGINAL: BudBud
Just to bring everybody up to speed, I mounted my original Picco 28 pull start on a Truckzilla chassis, which is longer and a lot heavier than a regular Savage with a set of large tires and wheels. I have since bought a third Picco 28 and mounted it on a regular Savage chassis. I had a new Hot Bodies Pipe and manifold here and the Picco does not like that at all. I had to open the needles a long ways from stock to get it to run and it still goes lean in the higher rpm range. Lean enough that I am not going to push my luck trying to run it hard. In addition, I tried the stock Hpi polished pipe and it is not much better, if any. I have a ribbed Hpi pipe here someplace, but cannot locate it. I may have pitched it as it was pretty nasty looking.
The tallest gear set I can get in the Truckzilla chassis without cutting the chassis plate is a 16/46.... I have read that guys are running a 20/47 and even 20/48 with their Picco 28s. From the power I am seeing, I do not doubt that. Now I am waiting for another Picco friendly pipe to arrive. I also have purchased a bump start Picco 28 and put it in a buggy that I plan to equip with larger tires and wheels.
I can tell you that the bump start or turbo head 28 definitely sounds like it wails and has a lot more rpm potential than the pull start Picco. I still think the difference in speed between the Axial 32 and the pull start Picco is going to be minimal. I also think that equally set up, the Picco will run away from the Axial in a drag race. I still think the Axial will pull very close to the same upper rpm.
I have several Gps units and will strap one on and get the top speed for each, I will have to finish breaking in the 3rd Picco first. The Truckzilla would not be a fair race as it weighs almost 14 pounds, almost three pounds more than the stock Savage and wheels. I will try to get a video of the Savage running wide open with each engine.
I will say that the statement "Put a Picco in and your Savage will be faster" is not true at face value. The Picco will likely self destruct from going too lean on the Savage pipe. I will also say that SuperTib has been more than cooperative, in spite of the back and forth bickering we had on this thread. If you listen to him, he will point you in the direction of some serious power.
I was just going to let this debate die, but now I am curious myself. Just dropping a Picco in will not get it done, you need a pipe and some taller gears to take advantage of the power. Whether the Axial 32 can pull the taller gear and enough rpm to keep up with the Picco remains to be seen. I think it will. I sure took a lot of heat from a forum member that does not even own a Picco over this thread. He is still posting that he hopes to buy one soon, I hope he does, so he can quit blowing smoke. BB
Just to bring everybody up to speed, I mounted my original Picco 28 pull start on a Truckzilla chassis, which is longer and a lot heavier than a regular Savage with a set of large tires and wheels. I have since bought a third Picco 28 and mounted it on a regular Savage chassis. I had a new Hot Bodies Pipe and manifold here and the Picco does not like that at all. I had to open the needles a long ways from stock to get it to run and it still goes lean in the higher rpm range. Lean enough that I am not going to push my luck trying to run it hard. In addition, I tried the stock Hpi polished pipe and it is not much better, if any. I have a ribbed Hpi pipe here someplace, but cannot locate it. I may have pitched it as it was pretty nasty looking.
The tallest gear set I can get in the Truckzilla chassis without cutting the chassis plate is a 16/46.... I have read that guys are running a 20/47 and even 20/48 with their Picco 28s. From the power I am seeing, I do not doubt that. Now I am waiting for another Picco friendly pipe to arrive. I also have purchased a bump start Picco 28 and put it in a buggy that I plan to equip with larger tires and wheels.
I can tell you that the bump start or turbo head 28 definitely sounds like it wails and has a lot more rpm potential than the pull start Picco. I still think the difference in speed between the Axial 32 and the pull start Picco is going to be minimal. I also think that equally set up, the Picco will run away from the Axial in a drag race. I still think the Axial will pull very close to the same upper rpm.
I have several Gps units and will strap one on and get the top speed for each, I will have to finish breaking in the 3rd Picco first. The Truckzilla would not be a fair race as it weighs almost 14 pounds, almost three pounds more than the stock Savage and wheels. I will try to get a video of the Savage running wide open with each engine.
I will say that the statement "Put a Picco in and your Savage will be faster" is not true at face value. The Picco will likely self destruct from going too lean on the Savage pipe. I will also say that SuperTib has been more than cooperative, in spite of the back and forth bickering we had on this thread. If you listen to him, he will point you in the direction of some serious power.
I was just going to let this debate die, but now I am curious myself. Just dropping a Picco in will not get it done, you need a pipe and some taller gears to take advantage of the power. Whether the Axial 32 can pull the taller gear and enough rpm to keep up with the Picco remains to be seen. I think it will. I sure took a lot of heat from a forum member that does not even own a Picco over this thread. He is still posting that he hopes to buy one soon, I hope he does, so he can quit blowing smoke. BB
You've seen for yourself now that there's more to it than plain mechanical max RPM as stated in your last paragraph there. Congrats.
BTW, the only thing blowing smoke is a Picco through a Dynamite 053 pipe.
I'll try the 086 pipe next as the 053 pipe is a mid-range pipe.
02-26-2008, 01:32 PM
#106
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RE: axial motors question
header length decides where the pipe will make HP.... short header on a 053 makes it an awesome top end pipe.... long header makes it a torque pipe
02-26-2008, 02:16 PM
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RE: axial motors question
We went through all this so you could prove to yourself what was said from the very beginning? I admire your persistence...not many people would stick to it that long.
You've seen for yourself now that there's more to it than plain mechanical max RPM as stated in your last paragraph there. Congrats.
BTW, the only thing blowing smoke is a Picco through a Dynamite 053 pipe. I'll try the 086 pipe next as the 053 pipe is a mid-range pipe.
You've seen for yourself now that there's more to it than plain mechanical max RPM as stated in your last paragraph there. Congrats.
BTW, the only thing blowing smoke is a Picco through a Dynamite 053 pipe. I'll try the 086 pipe next as the 053 pipe is a mid-range pipe.
They are both horses in the R/C field and do a great job moving the beast around. I think the Picco will last longer, it appears to be quality stuff. I think the Axial has more bottom end power, right of idle. I also think it is kind of funny that I had two brand new engines come in with serious leaks in the front bearing, what are the odds? The Picco bearings are sealed inside and out, the Axial bearings are just sealed on the outside. I had a new Picco with air bubbles in the front bearing big enough to stick a small allen wrench into, in both seals. I had an Axial that was pretty close to that, I would prime the Axial, fire it, and as soon as it started warming up, it was screaming up in rpm and the temperature soared. There was no way to use the 32 without frying it. The Picco was not that bad, but as it warmed, it would not stay tuned. Luck of the draw! BB
02-27-2008, 02:17 PM
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RE: axial motors question
I have four Tower terrors, right now they are two with the Hpi 4.6, one with an Axial 28 and one with a Picco 26. I would say the Hpi engines are on both ends of the scale of my four trucks. One is very strong, I bought it new and broke it in, the other came on a Savage I bought off of Ebay and it had some serious air leaks, I fixed it, but I probably need a sleeve and piston. I will not do that as it is cheaper to just buy another 4.6 on Ebay. The Axial is doing good and the Picco is nice and strong as well. The Picco does not have the flip it over the wheelie bar on take off from idle power like the others do, but I think it has more power up in the rpms range. My buddy claims the Picco is the fastest truck of the four as far as watching it run on top end goes, but I can not say that by just driving it. BB
02-27-2008, 03:26 PM
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RE: axial motors question
I went back and looked at the photo I put in this post, at that time I had an Axial 32 on that Terror. It is the one that had the leaky front bearing. When I tore the Axial down to replace the front bearing, I put the Picco 26 on it. BB
02-28-2008, 02:33 PM
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RE: axial motors question
Nothing has broken yet on any of them without hitting something at speed. I twisted off a front axle with the Picco 26 making some high runs that turned into a tumble. 
That's the same truck that had the 32 on it. I break a lot more on my Savages and run them less, but this driveline is much simpler, no slipper, no transmission, no center differential. The center shaft runs through the spur gear, the gear has a square hole and the shaft has a square section in the middle. The shaft is one piece from differential to differential, not much to break there. The only clutch is in the bell on the engine and they weigh three pounds less than a Savage X. They are pretty wild to drive, a buddy watching me run one said "That thing runs on the ragged edge of insanity." The servos that come with them are junk and the wheels are pretty easy to break. The chassis plates are really light and will bend into an S shape at impacts a Savage would survive. They must use super glue instead of locktite on the axle hubs, about 1 in four takes the threads off with the nut when you remove them. The wheeleie bars are reported to be fragile, I have only broken one, that was doing long wheelies on a brick street in 20 degree weather. I broke one arm off, it was still working though. The front bumpers also shatter easy, and they retain the lower hinge pins. BB
That's the same truck that had the 32 on it. I break a lot more on my Savages and run them less, but this driveline is much simpler, no slipper, no transmission, no center differential. The center shaft runs through the spur gear, the gear has a square hole and the shaft has a square section in the middle. The shaft is one piece from differential to differential, not much to break there. The only clutch is in the bell on the engine and they weigh three pounds less than a Savage X. They are pretty wild to drive, a buddy watching me run one said "That thing runs on the ragged edge of insanity." The servos that come with them are junk and the wheels are pretty easy to break. The chassis plates are really light and will bend into an S shape at impacts a Savage would survive. They must use super glue instead of locktite on the axle hubs, about 1 in four takes the threads off with the nut when you remove them. The wheeleie bars are reported to be fragile, I have only broken one, that was doing long wheelies on a brick street in 20 degree weather. I broke one arm off, it was still working though. The front bumpers also shatter easy, and they retain the lower hinge pins. BB
