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my budget brushless savage project

Old 01-25-2009, 04:44 PM
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scarletboa
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Default my budget brushless savage project

i have the savage x 4.6 and i am wanting to go brushless. this is what i have come up with so far:

[link=http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=6679]this motor[/link]

[link=http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=7339]this esc[/link]

a conversion kit from [link=http://www.kershawdesigns.com/]here[/link]

[link=http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=7634]two of these in parellel or series. (depends on the location and if i want to scare people or not[>:]) [/link]

[link=http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=7028]and this charger [/link]

[link=http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=6569]also this[/link]


it is a pretty cheap conversion and if the esc or motor can't handle it, i'll just upgrade to feigao and a better esc.
Old 01-25-2009, 07:22 PM
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VP BT1
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Default RE: my budget brushless savage project

I'm interested in how it goes, as I thinking about doing another project savage. the charger looks similar to the vemon charger. Would you put twin motors?
Old 01-25-2009, 09:27 PM
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rclugnut10
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Default RE: my budget brushless savage project

i think he would need to at least, and i don't know if those motors can handle 6S but they'ld need it to get it moveing at anyspeed, 1100KV is crazy low, 2 of those on 6s may equal the power that the savage flux has on 4s, i'ld maybe look into a tad more powerful motor cuz IMO 540's wont push it well 2, 4 may, tho that'ld KILL yous esc and BTW you may do that anyways cuz those LIPO's can discharge 80A continuous, not counting burst, which would be 160A i believe, so i may look into something a bit more hefty, but thats just me, not saying that you got bad stuff, just it may not give you the preformace you're looking for. but of everything id change the motors if i'm gunna change 1 thing

the lug
Old 01-25-2009, 09:57 PM
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Default RE: my budget brushless savage project

I don't think you need twin motors, but that motor doesn't look too great. Feigao XL are more than enough to power a savage on their own, but they got hot. I know mamba max + neu-castle 2200kv (basically the flux stuff), is more powerful than any nitro engine. I have never seen the motor you are looking at, but its pretty low kv. FOr comparison, the feigao 8xl is 1800kv, and the 10xl is 1600kv (approx). Also, being a low kv, that motor is probably pretty torqy. I know feigao's and especially neu's destroy the 3speed trannies pretty fast, and the 2sp will hold up a little longer, but still not that long. I recommend getting kershaws brushless gearbox rather than just the motor mount. It should hold up better. (or wait for the flux to vome out, and get that single speed tranny)
Old 01-25-2009, 10:22 PM
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savagecommander
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Default RE: my budget brushless savage project

http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...hless_Inrunner
run this motor, the other is max 45 amps, and will dier a horrible death trying to push your savage. also, id advise against that esc, they refer to them as the beeping nightmare, as the instructions are never accurate and setup is virtually impossible unless you can find a programming card, which there are a few on that site for cheap. this motor will run hard on your 3s, so wire for max amps (cuz that motor will pull them)
Old 01-25-2009, 11:21 PM
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scarletboa
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Default RE: my budget brushless savage project

the 45 amp motor is actually BIGGER than the one you posted a link to. the one i picked out is a clone of the feigao 15xl. i think i'll put a 20 or 22 tooth pinion to make up for the lost rpms. that combo will also allow HUGE runtimes if using series adaptors and INSANE runtimes if in parellel.

this esc and motor combo is only temporary. it will cost only $47 for a motor and esc. it doesn't get any cheaper than that. once i decide i want more speed, i'll get a feigao 9xl and a better esc.

if the truck can still go 40mph, i'm happy.

6s lipo equals about 25v when charged so, 25x1100=27500. the stock f4.6 makes 28000 when tuned right and about 25000 on my rich tune so i don't think speed is too much of a problem. too much torque might be though[>:]
Old 01-26-2009, 05:26 AM
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naynay12
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Default RE: my budget brushless savage project

I'd try this esc,it even comes with a 14 month warranty.
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...eed_Controller
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...rogrammability
One of those two,im deciding if i should go brushless,only if i can find an esc for under $100 that works well maybe one of those 2.
Old 01-26-2009, 08:40 AM
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savagecommander
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Default RE: my budget brushless savage project

Spec.
Kv: 1100rpm/V
Idle Current: 1.1A
Resistance: .0257
Max Amp: 45A


Spec.
Kv: 4000rpm/V
Idle Current: 5.9A
Resistance: .0044
Max Amp: 100A

do you mean can size? i think youll be suprised how fast 45 amps runs up. those other esc are very good candidates, they both have good numbeers and are program card compatible
Old 01-26-2009, 10:39 AM
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Default RE: my budget brushless savage project

i think i'll try the esc and the motor i have listed so far and when i decide i want more power, i'll get a feigao 9xl and [link=http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=3728&Product_Name=TURNIGY_Plush_100amp_Speed_Controller]this esc[/link]
Old 01-26-2009, 02:00 PM
  #10  
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Default RE: my budget brushless savage project

those are all great ideas for saving money . but that motor in any kv count is no to great. if you read the review they are some what mixed. the Feigao XL 8x is the best for price and reliability . i am running one in my savage and having no heat problems at all never has gotten over 130 take it i am only running a 3 cell lipo witch gives me the performance of a k46. not saying it wont heat up on 6 cells but all the others will also. on those esc you link they are for planes as i am sure you know and wont have the punch of a mamba esc witch you will be wanting to upgrade to since it a much better esc. if you looking to save a little money in these times you should go with the Feigao XL and a mamba sidewinder esc that is under 80 bucks . it will run a Feigao XL just fine as long as you don't go no higher then 3 cells which is fast enough at first. plus later on if you want to run 6 cell and get a mamba monster max you will have a great esc for another car the ones in your link are all through always. ebay seems to be the best on lipo right now you don't need to get the more expensive car size batteries you can get 2 smaller plane size batteries and run them together to dubble there captivity 2800 + 2800 = 5600 and that is plenty plus there easier to place around a chassis that has no place for a battery http://cgi.ebay.com/2800mAh-11-1v-25c-30c-11-1-LiPo-3S-2800-RC-AKKU-Battery_W0QQitemZ170296679482QQcmdZViewItemQQptZRa dio_Control_Parts_Accessories?hash=item17029667948 2&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A4|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A13 18|301%3A1|293%3A2|294%3A200

as for heat problems which you should not have. most of the nitro guy in this forum don't have much experience with electric rc because there in love with nitro for good reason . you can help lower esc temps by running a external bec or your hump pack to power the servos [ esc are not intended to power 3 hi power servos most of the time just one] the esc need to convert higher voltage to 6 vote so it needs to burn it off as heat to lower the voltage. and dont forget the savage has a external brake so the esc and motor dont need to do any of the breaking witch means less drain on the battery equaling longer run time and less strain on the esc
Old 01-26-2009, 02:36 PM
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Default RE: my budget brushless savage project

hi

there are several savage conversion threads in this forum here. i suggest you read those carefully.
the "problem" you MAY encounter is not really the missing power of that motor. its basically a 15XL feigao like you mentioned. such a motor would "usually" be used with something like a 8s setup.
your basic approach is imo absoluty correct: go for high voltage and a low rpm motor. this will lead you to a powerfull but "efficient" setup. the 6L motor mentioned above is totally unusable in a monster truck like the savage.
i don't read good things bout the esc you suggest though. the turnigy sentilon 100hv may work. check rc-monster.com! BUT there is a big question mark in using airplane esc in cars because you need to brake with servos and only use "forward" on the esc. multiple speed gearboxes do not tend to live long with brushless setups! i highly suggest to fix the gearbox in one gear. you may use the gears of the flux when it comes out. as far as it looks today those gears will fit not "normal" gearbox. the other possibility is the gearbox mentioned above by kershaw.
the lipos you suggest are absolutly on the lower limit. i would suggest to go at least with the zippy H (or rhino) and there 2x4s. so you are high with the voltage and therefore need less ampere to get the power you need for the truck.
however if you fix the gearbox so you can run reverse and brake with the electric motor you need a real car esc like the mamba monster or others. for 8s you may look into the MGM, schulze or kontronik esc.
clearly that wont be as cheap as your proposed setup. but in the long run it will most probably be more fun.
try to target around 35'000rpm as a first starting point. you can deviate from there. higher quality motors (lehner, plettenberg, NEU) can also be run at higher rpm.
so a 8s setup with the 15XL is nice. but then the esc will be quite "pricy". if you go with the mamba monster (lower price) you can only use 6s which means you may use slightly higher rpm motor.
a low cost setup would probably be somethingl like this: fabricate your own motor mount and battery holder, buy the flux gears to fix the tranny, mamba monster, 6s zippy h (or R if they get them again) or rhino with at least 4000mAh and a motor that does around 1500 rpmv, XL size.

i run brushless savage conversions since 2003.

bye
rhylsadar










Old 01-26-2009, 06:43 PM
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scarletboa
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Default RE: my budget brushless savage project


ORIGINAL: rhylsadar

hi

there are several savage conversion threads in this forum here. i suggest you read those carefully.
the "problem" you MAY encounter is not really the missing power of that motor. its basically a 15XL feigao like you mentioned. such a motor would "usually" be used with something like a 8s setup.
your basic approach is imo absoluty correct: go for high voltage and a low rpm motor. this will lead you to a powerfull but "efficient" setup. the 6L motor mentioned above is totally unusable in a monster truck like the savage.
i don't read good things bout the esc you suggest though. the turnigy sentilon 100hv may work. check rc-monster.com! BUT there is a big question mark in using airplane esc in cars because you need to brake with servos and only use "forward" on the esc. multiple speed gearboxes do not tend to live long with brushless setups! i highly suggest to fix the gearbox in one gear. you may use the gears of the flux when it comes out. as far as it looks today those gears will fit not "normal" gearbox. the other possibility is the gearbox mentioned above by kershaw.
the lipos you suggest are absolutly on the lower limit. i would suggest to go at least with the zippy H (or rhino) and there 2x4s. so you are high with the voltage and therefore need less ampere to get the power you need for the truck.
however if you fix the gearbox so you can run reverse and brake with the electric motor you need a real car esc like the mamba monster or others. for 8s you may look into the MGM, schulze or kontronik esc.
clearly that wont be as cheap as your proposed setup. but in the long run it will most probably be more fun.
try to target around 35'000rpm as a first starting point. you can deviate from there. higher quality motors (lehner, plettenberg, NEU) can also be run at higher rpm.
so a 8s setup with the 15XL is nice. but then the esc will be quite "pricy". if you go with the mamba monster (lower price) you can only use 6s which means you may use slightly higher rpm motor.
a low cost setup would probably be somethingl like this: fabricate your own motor mount and battery holder, buy the flux gears to fix the tranny, mamba monster, 6s zippy h (or R if they get them again) or rhino with at least 4000mAh and a motor that does around 1500 rpmv, XL size.

i run brushless savage conversions since 2003.

bye
rhylsadar




with all the extra torque from that motor over a 8xl, wouldn't i be able to just gear it higher? i was thinking of using the stock 47tooth spur and using a 18-22tooth pinion. that would make up for lost speed. i'm not looking for crazy, uncontrollable performance right now and since this esc/motor combo is so cheap, it would be easy for me to justify spending more once i crave more power. i think it will be an improvement over nitro and nitro was pretty dang powerful to begin with. on 3s in parellel, it will be slow and that is good for when i'm just messing around. then, i'll swap my parellel adaptor for a series adaptor and let the tires shred. with a 20 tooth pinion, it should still be able to go 50mph on 6s.





Old 01-26-2009, 10:00 PM
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Default RE: my budget brushless savage project

http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...rogrammability
The only difference between airplane esc like this and car esc is that the breaks are not as good,am i right?

http://cgi.ebay.com/EZRUN-Brushless-...3A1%7C294%3A50
I know this isn't my thread though what size is that motor comparable too, an XL?

IMO this is just as good as a mamber monster max except cheaper.
http://cgi.ebay.com/EZRUN-150A-SD-Br...3A1%7C294%3A50
Old 01-27-2009, 05:58 PM
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Default RE: my budget brushless savage project

@scarletboa
yes you can gear a 15xl higher than a 8xl. however this is usually a tradeoff. higher gearing means usually more current etc. there are limits.
of course you can always step up later. however i personally would start on solid ground.
with 3s it will be very slow. kinda rock crawler speed. to get it fast imo the gearing has to be quite extrem on 6s. i don't know if that will really work out. check the temps carefully!


also for experience with those EZrun esc etc check rc-monster for additional information.

bye
rhylsadar
Old 02-02-2009, 12:24 AM
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Default RE: my budget brushless savage project

Just get a Flux and be time and money ahead in the long run. Seriously. HPI has done all the work and upgrades for you....just plug and go.
Old 02-02-2009, 02:35 PM
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Default RE: my budget brushless savage project

i think i might just go ahead and get the flux. the main reasons are the nice battery boxes and the neu style motor.

i was debating on how i was going to secure the batteries to the truck and if i were to get the flux, that problem would be solved. also, the drivetrain is much better along with the diffs and the dogbones. also, i hear the nitro savage trannys can't handle brushless power very well.
Old 02-03-2009, 12:31 AM
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Default RE: my budget brushless savage project

i just saw a video of a guy running 6s in his savage flux and i MUST have one now. i will do what it takes to get one lol.

this is my plan so far:

sell my current savage: $300-$350

sell my xtm x-cellerator: $150 easy

sell some metal stuff from my blinged out t-maxx: $100-200 depending on how much i part with.

sell my never run trx 3.3 engine $90-100

i'm selling a used violin to a friend that is in a little financial trouble: $50 (it is worth $200-300 easy)


that should be plenty for a flux, two of [link=http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=8579&Product_Name=ZIPPY_Flightmax_5000mAh_3S1P_20C_]these[/link] with the $38 charger from that website.
Old 02-03-2009, 03:56 AM
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Default RE: my budget brushless savage project

Looks like you have it covered. LOL.

I'm probably going to buy those same Zippy packs for mine. The price is just incredible.
Old 02-03-2009, 02:07 PM
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Default RE: my budget brushless savage project

yea, $50 for a 25c 5000mah 3s lipo pack and $43 for the 20c pack is just insane. i have never heard of lipos being that cheap. i also hear that the new flightmax packs are pretty good with the exception of the hard-case packs.

also, forgot to mention in the earlier post; if anyone wants to buy any of the things i mentioned, i have a paypal account and just leave me a pm and we can talk about it. the t-maxx parts that i am selling are super heavy duty machined aluminum a-arms top and bottom, full set of integy piggy back shocks. i also have full aluminum chassis braces, skid plates, bulkheads, and etc.

the only thing i don't like about the flightmax packs is that they are 3mm too wide to run in my rustler vxl. i might end up getting the flm chassis for it just so i can use those cheap packs in it.

the sooner i sell that stuff, the sooner i get the flux[>:]
Old 02-03-2009, 02:23 PM
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Default RE: my budget brushless savage project

Man, there's a guy selling the Flux SUPER cheap on ebay......$609 with free shipping. I had to check it out myself to see if it was for real or not....it's for real. [&:]

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