Aerofly 5 for Mac violent wing drop problem
02-02-2011, 09:59 AM
#1
Aerofly 5 for Mac violent wing drop problem
I recently installed the Mac version of Aerofly 5 on my brand new iMac. It seems like the big 3D models fly very differently from the ones on my old Aerofly Pro Deluxe installed on my Dell Windows laptop. On the new Mac version, the big Extra, and Edge tend to drop a wing quite violently when slowing up for a harrier or transitioning into a hover. If you don't catch it just right, the airplanes will just snap right over. The Giles in my old Aerofly Pro would just mush into the manuever pretty much like a foamie or modern giant scale 3D plane. I have the Game Commander for Aerofly 5 and have upgraded it to version 5.5. Did I miss something in the setup? I fly a 33% SD Models Yak, and even it is way more docile than the airplanes in Aerofly 5.
Addendum: The Extra 260 does not seem to have the problem. The other giant scale 3D machines are pretty bad. You cannot pull into a wall without a snap one way or the other.
Addendum: The Extra 260 does not seem to have the problem. The other giant scale 3D machines are pretty bad. You cannot pull into a wall without a snap one way or the other.
02-06-2011, 08:51 AM
#2
RE: Aerofly 5 for Mac violent wing drop problem
I have flown the large scale aerobatic models in AF5 including the Extra, Edge, and Katana ("competition" type, not "standard") and they seem to hold well in all 3D maneuvers including walls, and transitions into hovering without dropping a wing. With a proper entry speed and by smoothening out your throws with expo, it should be fine. BTW, I'm using my own programmable radio and not the gamecommander. I find it much easier to tune the throws, dual rates, expos on my radio.
Having said that, the large 3D models ("competition" types) are set up to fly differently from the ones in AFPD and they do have a slightly higher tendency to snap. The planes in AFPD were "too soft" according to competition pilots, so the AF5 developers gave the "competition" models an earlier stall behaviour in AF5. This especially improved the snaps. Anyhow, this stall behavior is unexpected for the beginner pilots (often mistaken for some 'aileron input' in a tight loop or very slow approach). So for beginner pilots, the "standard" models are recommended. For each model you can select either the "competition" or "standard" model type in the load model menu.
You can reduce the snap tendency by editing the model but I would do this as a last resort: go to the model editor and adjust the lift curve for both the AirfoilTip and AirfoilRoot. Increase the AttachedRange and StallRange, and reduce Cl0 to make the 'hump' in the green lift curve smaller. This will make the stall softer or even non-existent, and going into the wall or harrier is just as easy as pulling the the stick back. Compare these parameters in the "competition" and "standard" models and you'll see the differences.
Having said that, the large 3D models ("competition" types) are set up to fly differently from the ones in AFPD and they do have a slightly higher tendency to snap. The planes in AFPD were "too soft" according to competition pilots, so the AF5 developers gave the "competition" models an earlier stall behaviour in AF5. This especially improved the snaps. Anyhow, this stall behavior is unexpected for the beginner pilots (often mistaken for some 'aileron input' in a tight loop or very slow approach). So for beginner pilots, the "standard" models are recommended. For each model you can select either the "competition" or "standard" model type in the load model menu.
You can reduce the snap tendency by editing the model but I would do this as a last resort: go to the model editor and adjust the lift curve for both the AirfoilTip and AirfoilRoot. Increase the AttachedRange and StallRange, and reduce Cl0 to make the 'hump' in the green lift curve smaller. This will make the stall softer or even non-existent, and going into the wall or harrier is just as easy as pulling the the stick back. Compare these parameters in the "competition" and "standard" models and you'll see the differences.
02-06-2011, 05:51 PM
#3
RE: Aerofly 5 for Mac violent wing drop problem
Thanks for the reply. I may wind up making those adjustments. I think they went a little too far in the Mac version with regard to stall behavior. While I am no pro, I'm far from a beginner. I fly an old 33% SD Yak weighing 23 pounds, but even it doesn't have the kind of early stall behavior as the giant scale models in Aerofly Mac.
I'll have to go back and compare the "competition" and "standard" models. Maybe it's me, but I thought they both had the problem.
Seems like they left the Extra 260 alone with regard to that issue.
On the other hand, maybe a more "snap happy" simulation is good training!
I'll have to go back and compare the "competition" and "standard" models. Maybe it's me, but I thought they both had the problem.
Seems like they left the Extra 260 alone with regard to that issue.
On the other hand, maybe a more "snap happy" simulation is good training!
02-07-2011, 02:51 AM
#4
RE: Aerofly 5 for Mac violent wing drop problem
It's better to create a new model and not mess with the stock models (competition and standard). Here's some notes on editing:
If you want to do editing with testing, the following procedure is recommended:
1. Save Model as ... and give it a name and description you like.
2. Edit some values, click "Test"
if you like the changes, save the model
if you don't, reload the last saved model or remember which parameter you changed and try other values.
After editing some parts/parameters (without clicking "Test") clicking "revert part" brings back the parameter values as they were ON OPENING THE EDITOR. The button is meant to be used if a part/value got messed up while editing. Especially in engine or Aerodynamic interactive plots. If you "Test" once, you cannot go back.
If you want to do editing with testing, the following procedure is recommended:
1. Save Model as ... and give it a name and description you like.
2. Edit some values, click "Test"
if you like the changes, save the model
if you don't, reload the last saved model or remember which parameter you changed and try other values.
After editing some parts/parameters (without clicking "Test") clicking "revert part" brings back the parameter values as they were ON OPENING THE EDITOR. The button is meant to be used if a part/value got messed up while editing. Especially in engine or Aerodynamic interactive plots. If you "Test" once, you cannot go back.
02-10-2011, 06:03 PM
#5
RE: Aerofly 5 for Mac violent wing drop problem
Rajul,
Thanks for the reply.
Unfortunately, no matter how you spin it, Aerofly 5 has issues, and big ones. I don't know if it is just the Mac version or not, but there are two big problems with Aerofly 5 (and 5.5) for Mac:
1) The giant scale airplanes simply do not fly like the real thing. They snap, or "wing drop" out of basic 3D maneuvers like harriers and walls. I can't believe that competition pilots wanted this. The airplanes in Aerofly 5 just don't fly like real ones. I had my buddy over today, who flies pretty much nothing but 35 to 50 percent 3D machines and jets, and he agreed with me 100%, the airplanes don't fly right. In the 3D or high alpha regime, they don't behave like the actual models. Just who is this buddy of mine and why is he qualified to make such a judgment? I won't mention his name, but let's just say he was flying "3D" before the term was invented. He's one of the best RC flyers in the country. How good is he? I've seen him hover a Kaos.
2) There is a huge, glaring deficiency in the program: You can't set the maximum deflection of a control surface in degrees. Yes, you can change the percentage of servo throw, but that may not be enough. An example would be the Extra 260, which is the only model that flies remotely like the real thing. Even with 150% servo throw, the max elevation deflection available is not enough. I would estimate it at around 30-40%. This is insufficient to throw the airplane into a wall. It climbs every time.
My old Windows AFPD lets you set control throw in degrees of deflection. It also allows me to set the CG graphically, in other words it gives me a picture of the airplane and lets me put the CG wherever I want it.
I thought the new Aerofly 5 would be an upgrade of AFPD, but in reality it appears to be an entirely new program, and in many ways a step back. Where is that great flying Giles?
A major patch is needed for this program. It cost me 300 bucks and, quite frankly, I believe I not only got a bum deal, but got a worse program than my old AFPD.
Thanks for the reply.
Unfortunately, no matter how you spin it, Aerofly 5 has issues, and big ones. I don't know if it is just the Mac version or not, but there are two big problems with Aerofly 5 (and 5.5) for Mac:
1) The giant scale airplanes simply do not fly like the real thing. They snap, or "wing drop" out of basic 3D maneuvers like harriers and walls. I can't believe that competition pilots wanted this. The airplanes in Aerofly 5 just don't fly like real ones. I had my buddy over today, who flies pretty much nothing but 35 to 50 percent 3D machines and jets, and he agreed with me 100%, the airplanes don't fly right. In the 3D or high alpha regime, they don't behave like the actual models. Just who is this buddy of mine and why is he qualified to make such a judgment? I won't mention his name, but let's just say he was flying "3D" before the term was invented. He's one of the best RC flyers in the country. How good is he? I've seen him hover a Kaos.
2) There is a huge, glaring deficiency in the program: You can't set the maximum deflection of a control surface in degrees. Yes, you can change the percentage of servo throw, but that may not be enough. An example would be the Extra 260, which is the only model that flies remotely like the real thing. Even with 150% servo throw, the max elevation deflection available is not enough. I would estimate it at around 30-40%. This is insufficient to throw the airplane into a wall. It climbs every time.
My old Windows AFPD lets you set control throw in degrees of deflection. It also allows me to set the CG graphically, in other words it gives me a picture of the airplane and lets me put the CG wherever I want it.
I thought the new Aerofly 5 would be an upgrade of AFPD, but in reality it appears to be an entirely new program, and in many ways a step back. Where is that great flying Giles?
A major patch is needed for this program. It cost me 300 bucks and, quite frankly, I believe I not only got a bum deal, but got a worse program than my old AFPD.
