Ultimate Snaps?
09-16-2003, 11:40 PM
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Ultimate Snaps?
can anyone out there comment on the snap characteristics of the aeroworks ultimate, or for that matter ultimates in general?
are they fast, slow, pretictible, do they stop precicely, same positive and negative?
it seems that a lot of people think that these are really great sequence planes, i see the advantages in rolling maneuvers with the rudder authority, but was wondering if there is a penalty paid in snaps.
thanks
are they fast, slow, pretictible, do they stop precicely, same positive and negative?
it seems that a lot of people think that these are really great sequence planes, i see the advantages in rolling maneuvers with the rudder authority, but was wondering if there is a penalty paid in snaps.
thanks
09-17-2003, 09:46 AM
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RE: Ultimate Snaps?
Hey,
I've been flying nothing but Ultimates for the last 3 years, and they are all about the same. They will snap hard and fast, and stop instantly, if..........
It takes low rate elevator and rudder, and high rate aileron. Too much elevator and aileron will make a very "wallowy" snap with 30 degrees of heading change - not good for pattern work. If you have any trouble with soft completions, it is a problem with the servos not having enough power on the rudder and/or the ailerons to re-center the surfaces. Right now I have the AW 42% with JR 8411's all around, and they produce very clean snaps with instant stops. I did put four servos on the rudder, which is one more than AW recommends.
The up-line snaps will bleed off energy fast. There is a lot of wing area you are throwing into the wind. If you have to carry a long up line with snaps, you need lots of power (I mean LOTS OF POWER!), or learn to do the TOC style snap. (lead with elevator, but then take the elevator out for the rest of the snap.) If the plane slows during pattern maneuvers, you end up having to really fly it with all three controls until the speed comes back up. If you keep the speed up, it behaves nicely.
Bipes are not as easy to fly as the extras. If you want a challenge, they are great crowd pleasers. If you want easy, stick to the monowings.
Hope this helps..........CJ
I've been flying nothing but Ultimates for the last 3 years, and they are all about the same. They will snap hard and fast, and stop instantly, if..........
It takes low rate elevator and rudder, and high rate aileron. Too much elevator and aileron will make a very "wallowy" snap with 30 degrees of heading change - not good for pattern work. If you have any trouble with soft completions, it is a problem with the servos not having enough power on the rudder and/or the ailerons to re-center the surfaces. Right now I have the AW 42% with JR 8411's all around, and they produce very clean snaps with instant stops. I did put four servos on the rudder, which is one more than AW recommends.
The up-line snaps will bleed off energy fast. There is a lot of wing area you are throwing into the wind. If you have to carry a long up line with snaps, you need lots of power (I mean LOTS OF POWER!), or learn to do the TOC style snap. (lead with elevator, but then take the elevator out for the rest of the snap.) If the plane slows during pattern maneuvers, you end up having to really fly it with all three controls until the speed comes back up. If you keep the speed up, it behaves nicely.
Bipes are not as easy to fly as the extras. If you want a challenge, they are great crowd pleasers. If you want easy, stick to the monowings.
Hope this helps..........CJ
09-17-2003, 03:21 PM
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RE: Ultimate Snaps?
Blow n GO
When you say low rate elevator and rudder how low do you mean? I am trimming out a ultimate Pitts and when I do positive snaps I get the Wallo and heading change on low and high rate I am still experimenting. When doing a negative snap all I can say is when you think to let go of the rudder and aileron you've gone 1.5 rotations past the stop point.
When you say low rate elevator and rudder how low do you mean? I am trimming out a ultimate Pitts and when I do positive snaps I get the Wallo and heading change on low and high rate I am still experimenting. When doing a negative snap all I can say is when you think to let go of the rudder and aileron you've gone 1.5 rotations past the stop point.
09-17-2003, 11:04 PM
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RE: Ultimate Snaps?
CJ-
what engine are you running in your AW, what is the weight, and does it have enough power to perform the upline snaps present in the unlimited sequence without bleeding off too much energy? I fly at 5000 feat so any upline power issues can be show stoppers.
thanks for your help
what engine are you running in your AW, what is the weight, and does it have enough power to perform the upline snaps present in the unlimited sequence without bleeding off too much energy? I fly at 5000 feat so any upline power issues can be show stoppers.
thanks for your help
09-18-2003, 01:47 PM
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RE: Ultimate Snaps?
Hey Blow and Go do you have any experiance with the G+L Hobbies Ultimate. I have one almost finished with a 3W 150. Any info would be nice.
Kent
Kent
09-19-2003, 09:20 AM
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RE: Ultimate Snaps?
I don't have any experience with the G&L, but every ultimate I've seen flies great if you get enough power and keep the weight reasonable. My AW weighs in at 41lbs, with a DA150, Hyde soft mount, cannisters, carbon gear and spinner. Without all the frills, I think 39lbs, or a little less, would be reasonable. It originally had a 3W-200, but it weighed 43lbs with that, and the performance was the same overall.
If you do the unloaded TOC style snaps, the unlimited pattern is not a problem with a 150. It's still more of a challenge than a lightweight extra. If you do a traditional fully loaded snap on the up-lines, it bleeds half its speed aft one, and is down to a crawl after two snaps. It looks just like the real plane. Unfortunately, it's a work-out on the sticks, and the IMAC judges don't give much credit for the realism. Learning the unloaded snap technique is a must in unlimited. In the other classes you have ample power regardless of your technique.
I am at 600ft here in TX, and have never flown at 5,000ft pressure altitude. I would guess you would have to be very light on the sticks with the loss of power and lift. Another option is the 3W212. Your plane will take a 4lb hit, but your wallet will be about $800 lighter!?! There are several 100cc size ultimates coming out (AW being one) that look like they have a better thrust to weight (and cost) ratio.
I checked my throw for snaps, and they look like this: Elevator is 8 degress, rudder 12 degrees, and ailerons 35 degrees. I got these by reducing the throws each flight until the plane wouldn't snap any more, I then increased the throws back past that point. CG makes a difference. The more forward it is, the higher the throws have to be. The boys at AW say they prefer a forward CG. Mine is too far aft, but I would have to add weight to bring it forward.....so I'm living with it aft.
Glad to hear there are other bipe guys out there!
CJ
If you do the unloaded TOC style snaps, the unlimited pattern is not a problem with a 150. It's still more of a challenge than a lightweight extra. If you do a traditional fully loaded snap on the up-lines, it bleeds half its speed aft one, and is down to a crawl after two snaps. It looks just like the real plane. Unfortunately, it's a work-out on the sticks, and the IMAC judges don't give much credit for the realism. Learning the unloaded snap technique is a must in unlimited. In the other classes you have ample power regardless of your technique.
I am at 600ft here in TX, and have never flown at 5,000ft pressure altitude. I would guess you would have to be very light on the sticks with the loss of power and lift. Another option is the 3W212. Your plane will take a 4lb hit, but your wallet will be about $800 lighter!?! There are several 100cc size ultimates coming out (AW being one) that look like they have a better thrust to weight (and cost) ratio.
I checked my throw for snaps, and they look like this: Elevator is 8 degress, rudder 12 degrees, and ailerons 35 degrees. I got these by reducing the throws each flight until the plane wouldn't snap any more, I then increased the throws back past that point. CG makes a difference. The more forward it is, the higher the throws have to be. The boys at AW say they prefer a forward CG. Mine is too far aft, but I would have to add weight to bring it forward.....so I'm living with it aft.
Glad to hear there are other bipe guys out there!
CJ
