Jemo

My Feedback: (5)

I thought I posted this already, but here goes again.

I just spotted this on the mini-iac list
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"As of 4/28/04 I have purchased from Troy Built Models the Manufacturing rights
for the 42% TBM Extra 260. If you have any suggestions on the airplane I would
like to hear them. I will be starting production in July and will be offering
basic kits as well as deluxe ready to cover planes.I will still be doing custom
covering & equipment installations as well as building and finishing of other
manufactures kits. Please check my website for further updates as well as new
pricing on the 42% Extra 260."

Thank You!
Tony Russo
www.daltonaviation.com

Silvanskii

My Feedback: (17)

Wow that sucks! Gene made that plane a work of art now they're gonna turn it into a Carden.

Ah well, all good things must come to an end.

Jemo

My Feedback: (5)

What makes you think it won't be just as good ???.
Tony Russo of Dalton Aviation is a great builder and his thoughts are to keep it light.


http://www.daltonaviation.com/Extra42.htm

Diablo-RCU

My Feedback: (1)

On the old Troy built website, they explained that they didn't use any foam parts but only selected contest balsa etc. in order to make the plane as light and rigid as possible. Now you say that Tony can substitute foam in certain places and improve the plane. Hmmm. Either Tony or Gene is correct. But not both of 'em....

rmh

well - any plane can be built lighter - -or heavier - it is all a trade off and some guys understand it - some don't.
Give em a break--
my new 45% model will be about 20 lbs ready to fly .
How ?
easy - the full scale was very tiny .

Silvanskii

My Feedback: (17)

Have you seen the "original" Troy Built's? I have their 35% (23 lb.s with smoke) and wouldn't trade it for anything. I would love to get a 42% airframe uncovered and just hang it on the wall, it is quite nice to look at (but better to fly of course). Not an ounce of foam anywhere, and only the minimalist of wood!

Have you seen a Carden, Lanier, Aeroworks, Hangar 9, etc. that are all filled with foam?

Of course you know the two 42%'s TBM's I've had the pleasure of flying (one prototype and one made exclusively for RC Showcase, both were of basic configuration you can buy from the factory) weighed ~33 pounds decked out with all the dual receivers and gobs of servos per surface, while the lightest of the Carden's I've ever heard of weighed 38 pounds and was absolutely minimal in terms of equipment. Schulman himself at Nall last year commented that if he'd have flown a TBM before the last TOC he would've bought 4 of them to take!

Now don't get me wrong, I'm sure the planes Tony builds are absolutely top notch, straight and true, but that only means the planes are built to be what they are. The best built Aeroworks will always be heavier than a well built TBM, and will therefore fly heavier. He intends to "strengthen" the airframe. I have no idea why. Those of you in the Dayton, OH area have seen me fly the CRAP out of mine including four crash landings. The net result of that is some covering wrinkles. I couldn't ask for a more resilient plane, especially for one that is this good.

The best thing Tony can do is leave the design alone, maybe even consult with some engineers about redesigning some areas (ie. landing gear and firewall areas) for more strength and call it that. At the very least market a beefed up version alongside the awe inspiring TBMs I've seen.

Bottom line is the TBMs were designed with being light at ALL COST in mind, that is the reason they are the best on the market now. Filling them up with foam and making them "stronger" is completely against the initial design of the airplane and therefore just asking for trouble.

Darrinc

My Feedback: (5)

Darn, sounds like a end to a era. I agree that it is a piece of art, that just happens to fly. I guess I'll have to get a hold of Gene to get some of those beautiful formers before they turn into solid 1/4" 5ply. I really had planned to hang one of his fuses without sheeting in my home .


I'm sure Gene just got tired of dealing with people with the "Carden" mentality.

Truely a same! What a design! What a airplane!

Truely n'th degree!

quist

My Feedback: (198)

Where did it say that they are going to start using foam? My 35% has foam ribs. I would consider it a strong air frame. 2 years with no repairs and the person I sold it to was rough on it and it with stoud the punishment.

I was told by a person close to McConville that his new Troy built wieghed 39LB. But I dont know how.

I just finished Caglia's backup 260 from 2002 toc and it cant wiegh over 34.5 lbs with KS pipes. The owner has 6 flights on it now and that plane is a floater, he can do rolling circles at 1/3 throttle and at a snails pace.

Darrinc

My Feedback: (5)

To quist:

I believe the foam ribs where changed out to balsa because of manufacturing difficulties. The foam (Divinycell) is much more expensive than balsa, it cannot be lazer cut (toxic gas), and by the time you get them properly prep'ed (micro ballon/epoxy on edges to fill the cells) for bonding they weight the same as contest balsa. I at the end of the day, nothing beats balsa for lightweight and simple.

I do composites for a living, (Scaled Composites) and it's tough to beat what balsa gives you for our models. You can lay-up (layers with a alternating orientation), of say a 1/8inch panel balsa, using 1/16th (or thinner preferably, you want a odd number of layers, 0/45/0 for longentual strength, 45/0/45 for torsional strength) of 4 to 6lb contest balsa with CA (go light) like a composite panel, and end up with a extremely light, extremely stiff piece. There really is no need for plywood and epoxy in a model.

Sorry, I seem to be on a soap box.

I have spoken with Gene for a couple of years, he truly has a passion for building the lightest weight, structurally sound airplanes available.

I envy him.

Jemo

My Feedback: (5)

Why is everyone so willing to bash somebody, when they don't know what is going to happen.

I think it's the chicken little syndrome.

quist

My Feedback: (198)

Jemo, I agree with you. I don't get the bashing. Where does it say the Dalton is going to change the plane to foam?

Johny rc

ON HIS WEBSITE

Darrinc

My Feedback: (5)

Yes, it says that he is changing the materials on his web page.

Silvanskii

My Feedback: (17)

Uh duh read his website, it states quite clearly he's changing everything to foam cores, and is going to make the airframe "stronger".

I just find it said because Gene really gave that company a great name and product that now means nothing. He's a heck of a nice guy to.

Jemo

My Feedback: (5)

Just for the record, Gene and Tony are quite good friends.

But lets all condemn something that is not even built yet.

daltonaviation

To all concerned,

First of all I did not get into this blind. I have been building models for quite some time. There is foam in the airplanes that Gene built. The entire tail is foam. The reason I want to make the wings foam cores is to simplify the construction of the wing. I weighed a wing panel that was built by Troy Built and it weighs 2.7 lbs RTC. I then weighed a wing from the 40% Godfrey Extra 300L that is foam core and 3 " longer that I built and it weighed 2.7 lbs RTC. This is the only major change that will be done to this plane!!! I am very focused on keeping the plane light, but with the way the wing is construted now it is very time consuming and would be impossible for someone to try and build it as a kit. It has to be done on a wing jig. I am very aware of the popularity of the airplane and how well it was selling, so it would not make much sense to redesign everything. The fuselage will remain basicly unchanged. The landing gear plate is the biggest issue that I have experianced. Dont be so quick to judge me. Give me a chance.
If you have comments good or bad please email me directly. I want to hear what you have to say!

Thank You
Tony Russo
Daltonaviation.com
[email protected]

DENNIS C

My Feedback: (99)

Hey tony are you also going to be building the 35% 260 also.

daltonaviation

No, the 35% will be built by Ramon who worked for Gene. I dont have a number for him but you can call Gene and I am sure he can put you in touch with him.

Tony

DENNIS C

My Feedback: (99)

Thanks tony...I just got off the phone with sam montellone and found that out.

MMcConville

My Feedback: (4)

Thought I'd add my 2c worth here since I have a TBM 260 that was built last fall and finished by Tony Russo. First, it is a wonderful flying model No doubt.

Someone mentioned the weight of mine. Correct. It weight 38lbs 4 oz. I added less than 10oz of structure to it, which was in the form of a pipe tunnel and some maple square stock behind the f'wall. As for the really light ones I hear about

My wing panels (balsa ribs) weigh 3 lbs 7 oz and 3 lbs 11 oz.
For reference, the foam wing panels of my Carden Extra 330S from the last TOC (bulit by Brian Hueffmeier) weighes 3 lbs 4 oz each.
IMO foam can be built lighter.

A wood wing built incorrectly can also be a real problem. Personally, I'll take a good set of foam, wings for my 260 right now.

Jemo

My Feedback: (5)

Looks good.............

Diablo-RCU

My Feedback: (1)

So, 38 lbs 4 oz minus 10 oz of wood and minus about 2 lbs for cans = 35.6 lbs for in-cowl mufflers. Makes sense.

Darrinc

My Feedback: (5)

Just a side note, I dealt with Sam Montellone on a class project (he donated some equipment) several years ago, and I would just like to say publicly what a great guy he is, and what a pleasure it was to deal with him!

Doug Cronkhite

My Feedback: (34)

I think people get too hung up on the weight of the airplane. I flew Mike's 260 in Florida this year, and it was VERY good and felt very light on the sticks. How the airplane flies is more important than any fixed number.

sjm

My Feedback: (8)

Why Thank You Darrin for the kind words! Back to the TBM 260, I was one of Genes builders up here in MI before he moved. The plane constantly gained weight through it's evolution of improvements. The biggest gain in my opinion was the balsa sheeting. The early planes suffered damage easily from handling because of the light density sheeting. Gene decided that the heavier sheeting would be more durable and the added weight did not hamper the planes excellent flying characteristics. Personally I would like to see a 1/8" aircraft ply motorbox instead of 1/4" lite ply. I have the last 42% we built in MI on the table and I am getting ready to cover it shortly.