ORIGINAL: psk560

I did not intend to cause any problems in IMAC or start a thread on judging. I am going to delete these videos from my page and would ask that you do so from your computers as well and please don't post them on your sites. This thread has brought up an idea for a different kind of video though. I might just make a video with a plane flying the same manuever a few times. Than start a thread and ask everyone to judge the manuevers. The spin would be a great one and I'll not include the picture in picture of the controls and I'll film from farther back to give a better angle for judging. Should be a good thread. LOL.

No hard feelings, just don't want people to misunderstand my intention or cause a huge thread to start. My intention was to answer relax1's request.

Craig

ORIGINAL: aresti2004

Some comments.

First, Half-Cuban 8's have 5/8ths loops, NOT 3/4 loops. Both videos call that incorrectly.

Both videos show errors on the half loop combinations with roll elements. Both Immelman turns start the 1/2 roll before level flight is achieved. I'd downgrade each by at least 1 to 1.5 points for the error. In the Sportsman video the Immelman with the full roll entry would also get dinged an extra 2 points for the visible line between the full roll and the half inside loop.

Both spins are zeroes. Neither one achieved a stall and there was no autorotation.

The Sportsman snap is also a zero. No autorotation. Nose was picked up and then the plane was aileroned through with some rudder for yaw.

The Basic Hammerhead has significant torquing at the top. The plane does not stay in the same plane as it were. Both Basic and Sportsman would get dinged for rotation more than 1/2 wingspan out.

Most of the 45 lines also appeared shallow. This may be an artifact of the camera work as well.

I am not trying to ream you guys personally, but if these are being put out as examples of what the sequences look like as a training tool, then people should be aware of the errors. There are other less significant errors as well (over/under rotation of point rolls, internal roll element centering errors, etc.), but these are the big ones.

I plan to bring this with me to the Advanced Judge's class in Chandler, AZ this weekend. They are excellent judge training videos.

ORIGINAL: PaulBK

dave, first thanks for hanging your /// out there for us to take a look..

the problem with the spin is that there is no autorotation of the fuselage. in a fully developed spin (which it should be after the first turn) the inside wing is actually moving backwards. if that is not visually present, it is a mechanical zero.

the snap is a more difficult one, and the source of much debate - which is why i watched it over and over. i would give it a .5, that way i don't have to concern myself with what the other judge does - but I would score it a zero. why a zero...the nose comes up, but it is not part of the snap. it is a visible input as is common with pilots who pop the nose prior to the first point of a roll - something like a boxer telegraphing his punch. the pitch departure for a snap is part of the maneuver, it is violent, and is immediately followed by the roll caused by the stalled wing. the airplane may (has to) change pitch angle, but not track...that means any increase or decrease in altitude is downgraded. I didn't see a pitch departure, what i saw was a gradual change in the track, followed by a roll accelerated with rudder. it's not a snap - not by the language of the rules.

i would be interested in the specific downgrades you use to give it a 6.

again, this is supposed to be instructional, if you guys want to hear it from the clowns like me that have to duke it out with the unlimited guys, i'll tell you it isn't fun and games. it's competition, not only among pilots, but at times between the pilots and judges.

P


Mr. P, thanks for the coments, on further review of the instant replay, I see what your taking about concerning the spin- I did not continue to increase angle of attack long enough proir to the spin to get a more voilent drop once it stalled that would have produced the immediate aoutorotaion you speak of . Is that what your saying if I read you right?

Next to the Spin the Snap is the next most controversial manuver. Your visual discription of my snap - if I read you right - it is in its simplest form- that it was all not executed simultaniously?? I must disagree with you on the 0 though- it broke -it autorotated -it displaced- posvitive indication that it snaped - not pretty. it was goooooooooy I agree.

We'll be at it again some time soon shooting some more spins an snaps. We can have some more debates. As the website man says "This material is not for training puposes and is in no way affiated with IMAC. It is provived for entertainment only. "

David, and by the way, what is your name sir.

ORIGINAL: aerosmythe


I agree with with about 80% of what Areti said in the comments above with the exceptions of the 0's.

ORIGINAL: Razguel
BTW: I did not find the walkthrough posted at AMA helpful.
Why did they not have the diagrams for the sequence for 2005 like in 2004?
Are these available somewhere?
What is with the 180 procedure turn? DO i just make a level smooth turn about ?

ORIGINAL: santi

aresti2004

On the sportsman sequence. manuver #2, Immelman

When doing a full roll how fast/slow the roll be performed.

ORIGINAL: santi

Thanks, You going to bakersfield on March 19? Looks like there is going to be a bunch of sportsmans there. This will be intresting.

Santi

ORIGINAL: Hawk21

Can some one tell me if the 1/4 roll down should be exactly at the same
point were the full roll up was done in the stall turn???