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Old 11-23-2005, 02:12 PM
  #51  
LSP972
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Default RE: Basic

Bait? Hardly.

Just a long-winded way of saying, "Allow us our impressions. We'll find out how it really is, soon enough."
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Old 11-23-2005, 04:02 PM
  #52  
PaulBK
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hold on guys. ed has a wealth of experience, and even if that experienced is tainted, as you say, i don't see any reason why that should not be shared. i know ed gave a tremendous amount of his time to developing imac in his region, and he got digusted with the direction that the leadership was going - the "lets be like IAC" mantra gets pretty tiring. btw, i wrote the actual language for the imac centering rule, which I was very sorry to see go. it's not much fun trying to judge a four point roll that is completely displaced to one side of the pilot.
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Old 11-23-2005, 04:26 PM
  #53  
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There is no doubt that he has a knowledge base that could be very helpful to us aspiring flyers. Pattern is cool, pattern airplanes are really cool. There will always be the price and equipment battle but hey, call ZIVCO and see how much it cost to buy and maintain an Edge for a contest season. This thread was started to give the new competitors a place to hook up and ask basic questions. I really like the fact that the experienced guys jump in to give guidance so please keep it up.

Does anyone know what you have to do to fly sportsman at the Nat's?
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Old 11-23-2005, 10:27 PM
  #54  
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Default RE: Basic

budgetdude,

To fly Sportsman at the NATS, you just have to sign up and show up. I'm not sure of the dates for this year, but last year it was the week of July 4. There will be info on the IMAC site once everything has been confirmed. I hope to see you there!

Ken
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Old 11-24-2005, 12:03 AM
  #55  
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OK sweet, I will be practicing both sequences.
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Old 11-24-2005, 10:15 AM
  #56  
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Default RE: Basic

ORIGINAL: budgetdude


Does anyone know what you have to do to fly sportsman at the Nat's?

Finish above me as I finished "LAST AT THE NATS" last year in Sportsman, but had a blast and will be going back again next year to defend my title.

PRACTICE, PRACTICE, the knowns and better yet, PRACTICE UNKNOWNS to you.

Pick out maneuver's in the IMAC catalog in Sportsman and go fly them.
or
Keep the UNKNOWNS of the contests you fly before you go to the NATS and practice them.
or
Some web sites post last years UNKNOWNS, print them out and practice them

HAVE FUN doing it, here in the NC region we are lucky to have some good contest and good CDs and great flying buddies
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Old 11-28-2005, 01:46 AM
  #57  
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Default RE: Basic

Anybody here build there own trailer out of a lcheap landscaping trailor?
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Old 12-12-2005, 07:13 PM
  #58  
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Default RE: Basic

I just signed up for the south central bootcamp. It is in Mt Pleasant Texas and should be good chance to learn the basics.
Here is the link:

http://www.easttexasaeromodelers.org/page3.html
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Old 12-12-2005, 08:03 PM
  #59  
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This is off the same site it has a ton of good info.

http://www.easttexasaeromodelers.org/bbcwb.zip
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Old 12-14-2005, 09:50 PM
  #60  
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Default RE: Basic

I flew basic last year and did ok. In three contests I finished in the middle of the pack. I have a lot of book smartness when It comes to IMAc but need to educate my thumbs. I have been Contest Director for 5 IMAC's been to F&J seminars and read every book ever published on RC Scale aerobatics setup etc...about 10 times each.

I don't think a new pilot should practice the entire sequence right away, he/she needs to braek down the sequence and concentrate on individual maneuvers and drawing a straight line in between. Each maneuver needs to be practiced right to left and left to right..

Here is my plan, I will fly this flight plan two times before attempting the entire 2006 sequence.


Flight 1.......5 minutes Humpty Bump both ends with straight line inbetween
5 minutes Cuban 8 both ends with a straight line inbetween
5 minutes of sport flying to clear my mind(or practice the chalenging slow roll)

Flight 2......5 Minutes Hammerhead Both ends straight lines in between
5 minutes reverse cuban Both ends and you guessed it straight lines inbetween
5 minutes of sport flying to clear my mind(or practice the chalenging slow roll)

Flight 3......5 Minutes reverse sharks tooth both ends straight lines in between
5 minutes Immelman on right split Ess left straight lines in between
5 minutes of sport flying to clear my mind

Flight 4.....5 minutes of Immelman on Left Split Ess on left straight lines inbetween
5 Minutes of humpty bumpe each end with a roll at center straight lines before and after roll
5 minutes of sport flying to clear my mind

Flight 5.....5 minutes of Rev Cuban each end with the dreaded loop at center
.....5 minutes Rev Sharks tooth each end with Figure 9's at center
5 minutes of sport flying to clear my mind, or practicing more loops that I just messsed up on

Flight 6.....5 minutes of Immelman and 1.5 turn Spin Immelman on right Spin at center
5 minutes of Immelman and 1.5 turn Spin Immelman on left Spin at center
5 minutes of sport flying to clear my mind

Flight 7 5 minutes of Loops and Hammer each end
5 minutes of 9's and cuban eights each end
5 minutes of sport flying to clear my mind.

At this time you know what your weak maneuvers are, you might spend a few flights practicing them, then repeat the 7 flights above again,you will never be able to competatly fly the whole sequence until you have some level of confidence on the above 7 flights.

Once you have flown the above seven flights then try the first half of the sequence, then the second 1/2 then the whole sequence, then the whole sequence back to back two times.

If you find a maneuver that you are having problems then practice it with symmetry...for example if you are having trouble with loops don't just fly loop after loop fly the maneuver before and/or after the loop to set you up. Example... in the 2006 basicc you have reverse cuban/loop/hammer...If you want to practice loops then either do rev cuban/loop/rev cuban/loop etc.. or loop/hammer/loop/hammer...etc.. this will get you to practice loops from left to right and right to left with the proper setup..

anyway that is my worthless 0.02

great luck in 2006

10's

Dan P
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Old 12-15-2005, 08:56 AM
  #61  
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Default RE: Basic

Excellent suggestion, Dan.

Hopefully I can get started on getting the plane trimmed this week-end; been fighting a balky engine set-up.

Your idea sounds like the way to go for a total beginner.
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Old 12-18-2005, 02:48 PM
  #62  
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Default RE: Basic

basic pilots..keep in mind that all figures are not weighted equally. K factors for a hammerhead with nothing on it is almost twice that of a loop...the loop is arguably harder yet has less impact on the final score. spend your time perfecting the high K figures, and examiningg the figure to find the trouble spots. don't obssess or spend too much time on the low K stuff.

P
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Old 12-18-2005, 10:02 PM
  #63  
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Default RE: Basic

Guess I missed that... I thought all of the Basic manuevers had the same K factor???
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Old 12-18-2005, 10:19 PM
  #64  
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Default RE: Basic

Steve, not sure what you are looking at, but the K's are listed on the sequence on the IMAC site. K factors are computed using the FAI catalog and are unique for each figure - it's been that way for many years for all the classes.

P
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Old 12-19-2005, 08:03 AM
  #65  
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Default RE: Basic

Even though the loop is lower k I would not forget it I would burn plenty of gas on it! The loop is a building block. The Cuban 8, and reverse Cuban 8 has a 5/8 loop. the humpty has a 1/2 loop. and the figure 9 has 3/4 loop. olmost every maneuver has 1/4 loop entry and exit. Master the loop(and rudder correction, and you are well on the wat to being proficient in all the rest of the maneuvers.
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Old 12-19-2005, 09:16 AM
  #66  
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Default RE: Basic

I've got the Judging Guide and all applicable downloads from the IMAC site, and have read most of it. Like I said, I must have missed that part. Of course, when you're struggling to assimilate so much so soon, it all begins to run together. I've got my "book" with me, and will peruse it further today.

I did my first sequence practice yesterday; with a borrowed airplane.[&o] My engine/pump continues to mis-behave. I ripped out everything last night and will start over. In 18 years in the hobby, I've never had an engine give me so much grief. But that sucker isn't going to win; if I have to, I'll move the tank up into the engine box and plumb it normally.

Quick question... it appears to me that it is more important NOT to zero a manuever than it is to score high in any one manuever; in terms of a decent overall score.

True?
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Old 12-19-2005, 09:51 AM
  #67  
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Default RE: Basic

Steve,
Zeros are bad but not the end of the world, just don't zero the high K ones....My only goal in my first contesst was not to get zeros..I got several...LOL

Can you describe your engine problem?
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Old 12-19-2005, 10:53 AM
  #68  
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Default RE: Basic

ORIGINAL: Steve Campbell

I've got the Judging Guide and all applicable downloads from the IMAC site, and have read most of it..I've got my "book" with me, and will peruse it further today.
IMAC Rules page GR-2, Section 3.5 Difficulty or “K” factors for known and unknown sequences
will be derived from the current FAI catalogue used in International
Aerobatic Club (IAC) competition, and modified as required by the
International Miniature Aerobatic Club (IMAC).



Quick question... it appears to me that it is more important NOT to zero a manuever than it is to score high in any one manuever; in terms of a decent overall score.
It depends. For instance, a zero on the Sharkstooth loses you 180 points per judge (360 with both giving zeros) while a zero on the Immelmann loses you 100 points per judge, or 200 total. I can tell you that it is possible to zero a low K figure and do well on the high K figures and beat someone who did not zero anything. Of course, it is best NOT to zero anything, but don't ever think that it means the round is a total loss.

Say you got a zero on the Immelmann an 8 on the Sharkstooth. You would have a total of 288 points. Now say you got 5's on BOTH. You would only have 280 points with no zeros. So you can see, it all depends on what you zero and how well you do on the others.
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Old 12-19-2005, 02:01 PM
  #69  
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ORIGINAL: Phaedrus-MMVI

IMAC Rules page GR-2, Section 3.5 Difficulty or “K” factors for known and unknown sequences
will be derived from the current FAI catalogue used in International
Aerobatic Club (IAC) competition, and modified as required by the
International Miniature Aerobatic Club (IMAC).
It depends. For instance, a zero on the Sharkstooth loses you 180 points per judge (360 with both giving zeros) while a zero on the Immelmann loses you 100 points per judge, or 200 total. I can tell you that it is possible to zero a low K figure and do well on the high K figures and beat someone who did not zero anything. Of course, it is best NOT to zero anything, but don't ever think that it means the round is a total loss.

Say you got a zero on the Immelmann an 8 on the Sharkstooth. You would have a total of 288 points. Now say you got 5's on BOTH. You would only have 280 points with no zeros. So you can see, it all depends on what you zero and how well you do on the others.

Thanks. That's EXACTLY the sort of insight I was looking for. And I'm not trying to figure out how to beat the game, etc.; we were just discussing this yesterday and this topic came up. Neither my pal or I have ever participated in any sort of judged competition, and we were wondering about the subjective nature of same.

IOW, PaulBK's advice is very sound for those who want to get the best possible score. Hell... I'll be happy just to FINISH the sequence without embarassing myself.
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Old 12-19-2005, 02:24 PM
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ORIGINAL: dntmn

Can you describe your engine problem?
Basically, when needled for good top end, good transition, and good mid-range, the engine will not drop into idle right away after a flight at mid-to full throttle. This translates into high landing speeds. Sometimes it will drop into idle after a few seconds. Other times, it won't, period. The airplane is very manageable at ALL speeds, but our 650 foot runway just isn't long enough to get the airplane slowed. Throttle cut at the flare solves this, but then one must trudge out there and drag the model back. Unsat. The last couple of flights, it began bogging down when full throttle was applied. Not always; which tells me it is a mixture/fuel draw problem. IOW, that bloody pump.

I tried the return-line mod with two tees yesterday. I really couldn't get a grip on how this worked, since I had so much trouble starting the thing and didn't fly this mod. While I had the cowl off, seeing what THAT was all about, I noticed that my throttle linkage had slipped and was introducing a bit of slop into the pushrod. Never was happy with that arrangement anyway; what I get for being in a hurry. So I said enough of this and put it up. We then put nine flights on my pal's WH 28% Extra/Brison 3.2. I need to go gas...

Anyway, I yanked all of the plumbing and throttle linkage out last night, and am re-doing a proper throttle linkage that will be tight and slop-free. Then I'll start over on the tuning process. I will also quit using my usual fuel mix, 15% Cool Power with two extra ounces of castor per gallon, and go back to straight CP 15% until the weather warms up again.

This thing is going to work, one way or another. The airplane (H9 27% Extra) flies too good to abandon. And I have no desire to run a big Saito, or Moki, etc. Yes, I know they are good. But if I have to buy another engine, it will be a 50cc gasser.
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Old 12-19-2005, 03:00 PM
  #71  
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What engine What Pump What muffler?
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Old 12-19-2005, 05:38 PM
  #72  
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Sorry.

OS 1.60, Perry VP 30. Bisson Pitts.

Enya #3 plug, CP 15% fuel, various wood 18" props.
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Old 12-19-2005, 06:14 PM
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Steve,
I sent you PM call me and I can help your engine problem.
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Old 12-22-2005, 01:53 AM
  #74  
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Default RE: Basic

I have a question. The manuvers (some) show a dotted line (means inverted right?) well then why on a reverse 1/2 cuban do you get points taken off if you don't pull the 5/8 right after you go inverted, actually you might get a zero? Example, I flew my first IMAC last year and had done the manuvers as I understood them by looking at the arestie drawings, pull 45 degrees, roll to inverted, the drawing shows equal distance between the 45 degree start, to the 1/2 roll and the same distance inverted before you pull the 5/8 inside loop. If you look at the drawing it shows about 5 lines between when you roll inverted and when you pull the 5/8. But that is wrong it shouldn't have the dotted line after the 1/2 roll. Does anybody else see it the same as I did?
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Old 12-22-2005, 05:47 AM
  #75  
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Default RE: Basic

The 45 line should be exactly bisected by the 1/2 roll. The judge should look for the beginning of the upright 45 line (at the end of the starting radius for the maneuver), then note the distance from there to where the roll occurs. To be really exact, it's the distance to the middle of the roll (at 90 deg), but you can never see things that accurately on a figure that isn't flown in front of you. From that point, the distance along the 45 line while inverted until the start of the radius for the 5/8 loop should be equal. Then, the radius of the 5/8 loop should equal the radius of the starting radius. Forget about exactly how the Aresti was drawn, i.e., don't try to determine where to place the roll by whether the author did a nice neat job of placing the roll element exactly in the middle of the line. A single roll element is always centered on the line segment it is drawn on. Don't confuse this with the way to fly/judge a "Split Ess" for example (half roll, half loop), where there is NOT supposed to be any line after the roll. That's no line segment as an integral part of the figure in that case, only a line preceding the figure.

If someone ever scores a zero for this figure simply for not pulling soon enough after the roll, they should probably have first aid administered right away. Too many hours baking in the sun if that happens, eh?
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