IMAC Discuss IMAC style aerobatics in here

Proof of Scale??

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Old 11-16-2005, 05:11 PM
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exeter_acres
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Default Proof of Scale??

OK...really silly question......

as I am new to IMAC next year....
the rules state that you have to have some prrof of scale....
If I bring my QQ yak to IMAC, do I need to bring something that says it is within the rules?? So many questions... so few IMAC flyers around here


Thanks
Exeter
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Old 11-16-2005, 06:22 PM
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Default RE: Proof of Scale??

ORIGINAL: exeter_acres

OK...really silly question......

as I am new to IMAC next year....
the rules state that you have to have some prrof of scale....
If I bring my QQ yak to IMAC, do I need to bring something that says it is within the rules?? So many questions... so few IMAC flyers around here


Thanks
Exeter
Don't worry about proof of scale. In 7 years I have never seen or heard of anyone being asked for it. The YAK you are flying is widely known to be OK. Worry about something else, like what wings level really looks like and how to fly a 45 degree line!!
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Old 11-16-2005, 06:45 PM
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Default RE: Proof of Scale??

no I would not worry about it. proof of scale is more of a Masters requirement and used to be a TOC requirement, besides that design was in both events.
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Old 11-16-2005, 06:49 PM
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Default RE: Proof of Scale??

well...I know the design is very well used.... so I can only assume it has been "proved" already....


Just double checking the rules
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Old 11-16-2005, 06:54 PM
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Default RE: Proof of Scale??

You could paint EXTRA on a UCan Do - and it would be almost as scale as some of the stuff flown.
This may sound silly to some but the scale thing is really an "impression" of scale now.
if it looks like a full scale craft known to or possibly a model which looks like a prototype of a plane which could fly full scale aerobatics (IAC )--it will likely be aceptable.
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Old 11-16-2005, 07:22 PM
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Default RE: Proof of Scale??


ORIGINAL: dick Hanson

You could paint EXTRA on a UCan Do - and it would be almost as scale as some of the stuff flown.
This may sound silly to some but the scale thing is really an "impression" of scale now.
if it looks like a full scale craft known to or possibly a model which looks like a prototype of a plane which could fly full scale aerobatics (IAC )--it will likely be aceptable.

Uh-oh. The scale warbird crew at my field, who are constantly at odds with me becauase I'm a hard-core "sport plane" (they have another adjective they use instead of sport) flyer, were thrilled to hear that I'm looking into "scale aerobatics", flying a scale plane.

They'll be SO disappointed...
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Old 11-17-2005, 11:46 AM
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Default RE: Proof of Scale??

I would say to win the event and then let someone come and tell you that your plane is not scale!
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Old 11-17-2005, 09:00 PM
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Default RE: Proof of Scale??

Thanks, but there's not much danger of me winning.

Doesn't matter. Much of the banter is good-natured, but sometimes I wonder about those guys. I've seen servos in their planes that are older than my #1 grandson's mother; to include the paint overspray on the servo body/horns.

That cockpit sure is detailed, though.
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Old 11-19-2005, 03:14 AM
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Default RE: Proof of Scale??


ORIGINAL: dick Hanson

You could paint EXTRA on a UCan Do - and it would be almost as scale as some of the stuff flown.
This may sound silly to some but the scale thing is really an "impression" of scale now.
if it looks like a full scale craft known to or possibly a model which looks like a prototype of a plane which could fly full scale aerobatics (IAC )--it will likely be aceptable.

You just made my day !! As funny as it is, it is just about true. My Extra IS scale and everybody says to me that my plane looks too short...
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Old 11-19-2005, 07:21 AM
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Default RE: Proof of Scale??

yeh-I once did a scale model of the Dalotel
Got a message from a guy -said mine was not scale -because my black outlines on rudder were blue.

He said Prettner's model of the Dalotel had blue outlines ---and Prettner's was scale.
Yeh sorta - it had an engine up front and retracts -after that -------
His flew and was flown - extremely well -but scale?
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Old 11-19-2005, 10:46 AM
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Default RE: Proof of Scale??

Hi Dick. Didn't Hanno try to fly a Dalotel biplane at the TOC? Jim
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Old 11-21-2005, 08:47 PM
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Default RE: Proof of Scale??

Hanno was disqualified in the '84 TOC for what was supposed to be a Steen Skybolt.....it had two wings and a motor and that's about as close as it came. He flew a Skybolt in '88, which was his last TOC. As an observer, I thought it really stretched the rules limits then.

I started documenting aerobatic aircraft and drawing 3-views for Dick and a couple of TOC pilots for the '88, '90 & '92 TOC's and from '92 on assisted in the scale verification process at the TOC...and it was amazing how many different 3-views would surface for the same aircraft. The most striking was the Ultimate 10-300. Between Gordon Price's original Bluehawk and the latest Labatt's Blue version, the wing span was clipped, and the stab location was shifted, which opened the door for a bit of controversy now and then.

With todays wide variety of kitted IMAC models, one can only assume that the scale is correct....but like Dick points out, put all the Extra 300's or CAP's or Yak 54's....pick one....from the different manufacturers side by side and it makes you wonder who's got it right.
I've yet to see a CD argue scale at an IMAC contest, since most models flown are kitted to some degree.

Technically there are rules ~ based on the wing span (which establishes the scale) all other lengths, widths and plan form dimensions must be within 10% of scale and the model should appear to be a scale likeness of it's full-size counterpart from a distance of 10 feet.

Bottom line: don't worry about it!

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Old 11-22-2005, 10:53 PM
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Default RE: Proof of Scale??

Isn't "Don't worry about it" just a cop out?? I was under the impression all thease years that the event was to be SCALE R/C aerobatics, as outlined in the AMA compitition handbook.
Why do we have to let the"tail wag the dog"? The consumer/modeler should dictate what should be available as kits/ARFS for sale for R/C scale aerobatics.
Yes, certain mods make our airplanes track and groove better, but at what expense to the spirit and intent of this event?? The really talented flyers will still prevail, even with an EXACT scale airplane.

Old Dawg. Long Live Team Vegas!!!
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Old 11-23-2005, 09:55 AM
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Default RE: Proof of Scale??

My comments weren't meant as a "cop out".....in answer to the original question, I meant to add that the average modeler, buying a name-brand, manufactured ARF or kit, has to assume that the manufacturers have done their job in producing an IMAC-legal model.
They can do an awful lot of fudging with the 10% rule :-)

I'd be curious if anyone out there has ever been challenged to verify the scale accuracy of their model at an IMAC contest?????

Have a great Turkey Day all!

Larry
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Old 11-23-2005, 01:03 PM
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Default RE: Proof of Scale??

f the dog is imac, the tail is a whole lot bigger than the dog - the number of pilots buying a specific model for competition is a tiny fraction of the total sales. so there are good reasons the mfrs don't look too closely at the imac rules, one of them is that the imac rules change - the 10% came and went and now is back again. it would be awfully expensive to change molds to accomodate rules changes - so why bother? one major mfr told me flat out he didn't pay attention to the imac rules, his company's airplanes were toc legal and that was all that mattered...and now there is no TOC. no one comes to an imac event actually expecting to have to produce scale documentation, nor are the CD's trained on how to read it - let alone take the time. It's enough that the airplane looks like something full scale, but beyond that, the rule is pretty meaningless and has been for a long while.

team vegas? i seem to remember a few bottom feeders that claimed allegiance to a clan of depraved souls by that name.
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Old 11-23-2005, 01:58 PM
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Default RE: Proof of Scale??

ORIGINAL: PaulBK

team vegas? i seem to remember a few bottom feeders that claimed allegiance to a clan of depraved souls by that name.
Worse yet, of late they have taken to adorning their bodies with various brightly colored garb announcing their love for cheap Mexican beer!!!

And again, as far as this topic goes, since starting my involvement with IMAC/scale aerobatics in late 1998 I have not ever seen, or heard, of a pilot being asked to produce scale documentation. Hence my advice that it is essentially a non-issue. CDs simply assume that if it is a manufactured kit or ARF that it is "legal"
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Old 12-09-2005, 04:21 PM
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Default RE: Proof of Scale??

Thanks, but there's not much danger of me winning.
Don't think you won't win... I won my first event out a field of 18, most good pilots with nice planes. Just relax, have fun, and fly smooth!!!
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