IMAC rules on aircraft.
10-19-2006, 02:14 PM
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IMAC rules on aircraft.
OK IMAC guys here is a quick question concerning aircraft that are legal to fly. I know there is a 10% rule, but it has been awhile for me on the rest of the rules. I am asking this because I am trying to decide on which kit to purchase in the next month for my entry on the IMAC scene.
To what extent does the planes 3-view have to look like the full scale plane. How far can a Horizontal stab be raised/lowered, can a low wing become a mid-wing or sholderwing a mid-wing, does the thrust line need to be within reason of the full scale, etc...
I really want to make sure I don't build something I can't use in IMAC...
Thanks in advance,
and please to direct me to the rule book, if I could read I wouldn't be asking the question here.
To what extent does the planes 3-view have to look like the full scale plane. How far can a Horizontal stab be raised/lowered, can a low wing become a mid-wing or sholderwing a mid-wing, does the thrust line need to be within reason of the full scale, etc...
I really want to make sure I don't build something I can't use in IMAC...
Thanks in advance,
and please to direct me to the rule book, if I could read I wouldn't be asking the question here.
10-19-2006, 02:24 PM
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RE: IMAC rules on aircraft.
I have never seen a plane disqualified due to lack of scale.
If it is recognizable then it will pass.
I would not worry about that.
If it is recognizable then it will pass.
I would not worry about that.
10-20-2006, 06:20 AM
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RE: IMAC rules on aircraft.
Scott,
Here is the rule book states:
6.5 Scale shall be determined by the wingspan. A change in wingspan will become a change in overall
Scale. Fuselage width, height and aircraft planform or any other variations shall not exceed 10% of scale, with the exception of airfoils and size/shape of control surface within the scale outline rule.
What this is saying from any overall view (outline) of the aircraft in question you are looking at the "planform" of the design, the scale model representation of the full scale should not deviate more than 10% based on the wingspan scale. So you can move wings or tail around up to 10% as well as the width, height and length of the fuselage. The exception is there is no "scale" requirement for airfoils and size/shape of control surfaces as long as they are within overall outline of the aircraft.
Hope this answers your questions.
Tom Wheeler
IMAC Sequence Committee Member
AMA Scale Aerobatic Contest Board Member
Here is the rule book states:
6.5 Scale shall be determined by the wingspan. A change in wingspan will become a change in overall
Scale. Fuselage width, height and aircraft planform or any other variations shall not exceed 10% of scale, with the exception of airfoils and size/shape of control surface within the scale outline rule.
What this is saying from any overall view (outline) of the aircraft in question you are looking at the "planform" of the design, the scale model representation of the full scale should not deviate more than 10% based on the wingspan scale. So you can move wings or tail around up to 10% as well as the width, height and length of the fuselage. The exception is there is no "scale" requirement for airfoils and size/shape of control surfaces as long as they are within overall outline of the aircraft.
Hope this answers your questions.
Tom Wheeler
IMAC Sequence Committee Member
AMA Scale Aerobatic Contest Board Member
10-20-2006, 11:22 AM
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RE: IMAC rules on aircraft.
hey vsnap. i see you are in brownsburg. i live there also and fly at the danville field. i attended my first imac event this year. if you need any help i would be glad to help or maybe you can help me. how can i get a hold of you?
10-24-2006, 07:46 AM
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RE: IMAC rules on aircraft.
Hey guys thanks for the help. I will be starting in sportsman till I get my composure back and enough practice in with the aresti. It has been a few years (7) since I really got to sit down and review this stuff. Each year I say I am going to start again, this year I intend to.
Watched a few practice sessions with Tim Mills and Bob C. earlier in the year and can't wait to get ready and go.
Yakmonoff I will give you a call
Watched a few practice sessions with Tim Mills and Bob C. earlier in the year and can't wait to get ready and go.
Yakmonoff I will give you a call
12-04-2006, 09:16 AM
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RE: IMAC rules on aircraft.
Hello.
I have a question directed to Tom Wheeler:
(Serious intention.)
How are you actually supposed to interpret this?
If I want to move the wing up or down, can I do that up to a maximum distance equal to 10% of the wingspan???
(That should be plenty...)
Or is there an other way of defining VERTICAL PLACEMENT in terms of percentage of the wingspan?
Regards,
Magne
I have a question directed to Tom Wheeler:
(Serious intention.)
Scale shall be determined by the wingspan. A change in wingspan will become a change in overall
Scale. Fuselage width, height and aircraft planform or any other variations shall not exceed 10% of scale......
So you can move wings or tail around up to 10% as well as the width, height and length of the fuselage.
Scale. Fuselage width, height and aircraft planform or any other variations shall not exceed 10% of scale......
So you can move wings or tail around up to 10% as well as the width, height and length of the fuselage.
If I want to move the wing up or down, can I do that up to a maximum distance equal to 10% of the wingspan???
(That should be plenty...)
Or is there an other way of defining VERTICAL PLACEMENT in terms of percentage of the wingspan?
Regards,
Magne
12-04-2006, 10:16 AM
#9
RE: IMAC rules on aircraft.
You might again ask Mr Wheeler same question.
Although original intent was to have scale like models flying scale like sequences -- the rules have relaxed
Basically:- If it looks like a 300L to most people - it is close enough. It is NOT a scale detail contest.
If you call it a 300L and nobody else seems to think it does - (the contest director gets to decide ) then be ready to show some proof that it really is a 300L and the contest director can then decide if it is within th 10% INTENT of the rules.
Some of the popular models declared IMAC legal-- may be IMAC legal - look sorta like the full scale craft -- However a number of em are out of the 10% dimensional restrictions noted.
This isn't just idle opinion.
check the numbers .
Although original intent was to have scale like models flying scale like sequences -- the rules have relaxed
Basically:- If it looks like a 300L to most people - it is close enough. It is NOT a scale detail contest.
If you call it a 300L and nobody else seems to think it does - (the contest director gets to decide ) then be ready to show some proof that it really is a 300L and the contest director can then decide if it is within th 10% INTENT of the rules.
Some of the popular models declared IMAC legal-- may be IMAC legal - look sorta like the full scale craft -- However a number of em are out of the 10% dimensional restrictions noted.
This isn't just idle opinion.
check the numbers .
12-04-2006, 06:58 PM
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RE: IMAC rules on aircraft.
Magne,
What Dick said is mostly true; there are some models that might not follow the exact word of the rule. I can think of a few "scale" aircraft that have the horizontal stab lower than what would be a ten percent displacement of its real world counterpart. But the intent of the rule was to give model aircraft manufactures and designers a guide when building new offerings.
It all comes down to this, in a perfect world where everyone follows the rules to the letter; all IMAC aircraft would have their flying and control surfaces within 10 % of their scale location. The length, width and shape of the fuse would also be within 10% of the full scale dimensions.
Again the models scale is determined by the wingspan, so if your wingspan is 100†and the full scales is 333â€, you are 1/3 scale. Now all of the other dimensions should be less than a 10% deviation of scale. As an example, lets say the 1/3 scale length of this same full scale aircraft is 90â€, legally you could add or subtract 10%, (up to 9â€) to the fuse. A ten percent deviation of all other dimensions except wingspan could be done as well. Remember, wingspan determines scale; a change in wingspan is a change in scale.
Hope this makes sense,
Tom Wheeler
What Dick said is mostly true; there are some models that might not follow the exact word of the rule. I can think of a few "scale" aircraft that have the horizontal stab lower than what would be a ten percent displacement of its real world counterpart. But the intent of the rule was to give model aircraft manufactures and designers a guide when building new offerings.
It all comes down to this, in a perfect world where everyone follows the rules to the letter; all IMAC aircraft would have their flying and control surfaces within 10 % of their scale location. The length, width and shape of the fuse would also be within 10% of the full scale dimensions.
Again the models scale is determined by the wingspan, so if your wingspan is 100†and the full scales is 333â€, you are 1/3 scale. Now all of the other dimensions should be less than a 10% deviation of scale. As an example, lets say the 1/3 scale length of this same full scale aircraft is 90â€, legally you could add or subtract 10%, (up to 9â€) to the fuse. A ten percent deviation of all other dimensions except wingspan could be done as well. Remember, wingspan determines scale; a change in wingspan is a change in scale.
Hope this makes sense,
Tom Wheeler
12-07-2006, 10:39 PM
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RE: IMAC rules on aircraft.
The only thing the wingspan is used for is to determine scale. To answer your question about wing vertical movement. You can move the wing up or down 10% the max. height of the fuse., usually measured at the highest point of the windshield. So in this example: If the fuse is 10" tall at it's max height, you can move the wing up or down 1". That is how I understand this rule, and seen it used at the unlimited level.
12-08-2006, 12:12 AM
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RE: IMAC rules on aircraft.
If you want to improve any of the aerobatic models - and be within the letter of the 10% rule
do this
get verified full scale drawing
clip span 9%
this gives you a new scale --with all dimensions , 10% larger than scale.
does it work?
yup - look at the fudged, current, popular stuff - essentially this is what has been done -except some simply have pushed the 10% as they see fit.
Don't fret over it tho- the horse is already out of the barn and you can bet your 16 channel Tx - it ain't going back in.
Go fly and enjoy it
do this
get verified full scale drawing
clip span 9%
this gives you a new scale --with all dimensions , 10% larger than scale.
does it work?
yup - look at the fudged, current, popular stuff - essentially this is what has been done -except some simply have pushed the 10% as they see fit.
Don't fret over it tho- the horse is already out of the barn and you can bet your 16 channel Tx - it ain't going back in.
Go fly and enjoy it
12-08-2006, 02:59 AM
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RE: IMAC rules on aircraft.
Tom, Dick and Danny.
Thank you for your reply.
I am building my own design of the Dalotel DM-165 (Thank you Dick for information earlier), and will move the tailplane down a bit and the wing up a bit, relative to the "real" locations. Using Danny's interpretation gives me some absolute numbers to what is allowed in terms of movement.
(Although I am not really sure if it is correct to base the allowable movement up/down on the fuselage maximum height, rather on the fuselage height at the actual location of the wing/tailplane. The fuselage is of course much shallower at the tailplane location.)
However, I understand now that the rules in reality are used and interpreted in such a way that it all becomes an academic question.
This model will definately be recognizable as a Dalotel, which in all honesty is quite ugly.
Regards,
Magne
Thank you for your reply.
I am building my own design of the Dalotel DM-165 (Thank you Dick for information earlier), and will move the tailplane down a bit and the wing up a bit, relative to the "real" locations. Using Danny's interpretation gives me some absolute numbers to what is allowed in terms of movement.
(Although I am not really sure if it is correct to base the allowable movement up/down on the fuselage maximum height, rather on the fuselage height at the actual location of the wing/tailplane. The fuselage is of course much shallower at the tailplane location.)
However, I understand now that the rules in reality are used and interpreted in such a way that it all becomes an academic question.
This model will definately be recognizable as a Dalotel, which in all honesty is quite ugly.
Regards,
Magne
12-11-2006, 05:30 PM
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RE: IMAC rules on aircraft.
Well let me ask this question. I am a sucker for a sukhoi. A company has a 40% sukhoi and a 40% 55sp coming out in the next few months. I really want the Sukhoi but the wing has been raised to the thrustline (midwing) and stab lowered to the thrust line. Will this pass if somebody objects in a contest situation? I have been thinking of just getting the 55sp instead.
12-11-2006, 07:23 PM
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RE: IMAC rules on aircraft.
Everyone is lowering stabs quite a bit, and wondering if it's legal. It is? Here's how. Your eye's are glued to the screen now, arn't they. At the rear of the plane the total vertical movement allowed is measured as 10% of the total hieght of the fuse AND rudder, not just the fuse. So if the rudder is 18" tall from the bottom of the fuse to the top of the rudder, then the stab can be lowered 1.8" from the scale position. Is it fair, don't know. Is is legal, yes. Are all the kit companies doing it, yes. Are all the kit companies legal, yes. Can you fly IMAC like this, yes. Don't worry about if a kit is legal. I only know of one 78" pattern plane that sorta looks like a G-202 that would be illegal. The rest of them (ARFs too) are all legal. If you plan to scratch build, I suggest you get some scale three-views to start with.
12-11-2006, 07:30 PM
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RE: IMAC rules on aircraft.
ORIGINAL: v-snap
I really want the Sukhoi but the wing has been raised to the thrustline (midwing) and stab lowered to the thrust line.
I really want the Sukhoi but the wing has been raised to the thrustline (midwing) and stab lowered to the thrust line.
Tim
12-11-2006, 07:39 PM
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RE: IMAC rules on aircraft.
ORIGINAL: Yakmonoff
hey vsnap. i see you are in brownsburg. i live there also and fly at the danville field. i attended my first imac event this year. if you need any help i would be glad to help or maybe you can help me. how can i get a hold of you?
hey vsnap. i see you are in brownsburg. i live there also and fly at the danville field. i attended my first imac event this year. if you need any help i would be glad to help or maybe you can help me. how can i get a hold of you?
Tim Mills
12-12-2006, 11:35 AM
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RE: IMAC rules on aircraft.
hey tim. yea i have been practicing the 07 Basic routine on realflight. got it down pretty good. I have 2 new airplanes for this coming season. A Wildhare Extra 330LX with a RCI G62 and a Dave Patrick Edge with a ZDZ 40. The DP Edge is ready to fly. The WH Extra needs the motor mounted and servos, hardware and electronics installed. I want to practice with you guys. I plan on attending as many events this season as possible. I want to win several Basic contests and maybe move up to Sportsman sometime this year, maybe. Let me know when and where you guys are going to practice and I'll be there. Also need somebody to finish my Wildhare for me. I hate to build and I'm not that great at it. V-Snap said he might be able to help. I went to the Lincolnland IMAC in Springfield, IL in Sept. and flew Basic. Finished third out of seven in the class.
12-12-2006, 12:43 PM
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RE: IMAC rules on aircraft.
Which version Real Flight do you have? If you had G3 and updated it to G3.5 then, make a recording of you flying the basic pattern and send it to me ([email protected]). I'd like to take a look at what you're doing, and maybe give you pointers on how to do it better. The better you get it on the sim, the more meaninful and efficient practice will be later on when we get to the field.
Steve, Bob, and I are holding practice sessions even now, using Real Flight to get sequence flying practice, calling practice, unknown flying and calling practice, etc. Shoot me an email letting me know when your best free time is, and maybe we can all get together and get in some practice. (Scott, that goes for you also).
Tim Mills
Steve, Bob, and I are holding practice sessions even now, using Real Flight to get sequence flying practice, calling practice, unknown flying and calling practice, etc. Shoot me an email letting me know when your best free time is, and maybe we can all get together and get in some practice. (Scott, that goes for you also).
Tim Mills
12-12-2006, 01:30 PM
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RE: IMAC rules on aircraft.
i have G2. i will fly and save a sequence round and email it to you tonight, if i can figure out how to do it. my computer is junk . i would rather spend money on airplanes than computers. who's steve? i know you and bob, althought i have never meet bob in person, i know he is the guy to beat around here in Sportsman.
12-15-2006, 04:59 PM
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RE: IMAC rules on aircraft.
Yea I got a house with a real biiiiiig basement..... Almost all moved in. Beginning of the New Year Yakmonoff get that beast over for finishing.
Like the new Avatar? You just may be seeing it displayed above a big glass window off RT 136 in the center of Brownsburg in late Jan. Also will have 700sqft of space marked for a gathering room for sessions. If things go as planned I hope to lure several key spokespersons in during the off months for discussion groups, classes and general meetings.
Scott
Like the new Avatar? You just may be seeing it displayed above a big glass window off RT 136 in the center of Brownsburg in late Jan. Also will have 700sqft of space marked for a gathering room for sessions. If things go as planned I hope to lure several key spokespersons in during the off months for discussion groups, classes and general meetings.
Scott
12-15-2006, 06:15 PM
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RE: IMAC rules on aircraft.
Hey Scott, what's up with the "sessions" at the Dawg House? Spokespersons, discussion groups, classes ........ sounds like big doin's.
Tim
Tim
12-15-2006, 06:20 PM
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RE: IMAC rules on aircraft.
ORIGINAL: Yakmonoff
who's steve? i know you and bob, althought i have never meet bob in person, i know he is the guy to beat around here in Sportsman.
who's steve? i know you and bob, althought i have never meet bob in person, i know he is the guy to beat around here in Sportsman.
You're definitely right about Bob Condra, he had Sportsman in his pocket last yeat! He'll move up to Intermediate class this year, since he is the reigning North Central district sportsman class champion. He also went to the Shootout in Tucson, AZ and made the cut, finishing in 7th place.
I'm definitely looking forward to next year.
Tim
12-15-2006, 09:56 PM
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RE: IMAC rules on aircraft.
Tim,
Well I always said there is more to this hobby then meets the eye. I am off work for another 9months at least so I am going to make something of it.
The shop will be for learning just as much as anything else. I am hoping to be able to utilize the area talent to help expand diffrent aspects of our hobby. IMAC is a big part of it in my mind. For IMAC alone I am hoping on getting a ARESTI day, judging day, Radio day (Futaba/JR) Freestyle day etc. Not to mention the electric side of things. Eventually I hope to have a media section set up with the ability to display topics on good size screen. It should be fun trying to talk these people into spending a day sheading light onto subjects of their expertise. Not to mention the shop section which I will use for building big and small projects. I figure it would be good for business if I can keep people coming by. I have big plans so it should be fun trying even if things don't turn out as I want. I could always go back to work. And besides somebody got to get this Indy crew organized, and I plan on being closed on Mondays for stress relief...
Scott
Well I always said there is more to this hobby then meets the eye. I am off work for another 9months at least so I am going to make something of it.
The shop will be for learning just as much as anything else. I am hoping to be able to utilize the area talent to help expand diffrent aspects of our hobby. IMAC is a big part of it in my mind. For IMAC alone I am hoping on getting a ARESTI day, judging day, Radio day (Futaba/JR) Freestyle day etc. Not to mention the electric side of things. Eventually I hope to have a media section set up with the ability to display topics on good size screen. It should be fun trying to talk these people into spending a day sheading light onto subjects of their expertise. Not to mention the shop section which I will use for building big and small projects. I figure it would be good for business if I can keep people coming by. I have big plans so it should be fun trying even if things don't turn out as I want. I could always go back to work. And besides somebody got to get this Indy crew organized, and I plan on being closed on Mondays for stress relief...
Scott
