Jake Ruddy

My Feedback: (40)

Hey guys... I am thinking this is the best forum to ask this in

I am curious if someone can give me some pointers on inside rolling circles.

I have spent a lot of time working on my rolling circles with the odd rolling loop. With a normal rolling circle you roll to the outside and lead with the rudder. I do these better rolling to the right but I can do them both ways... left just needs more practice

However rolling to the inside is really messing with my head and I just cant seem to get it remotely smooth.

I am looking for some pointers that helped you guys get them figured out.

Any input would be greatly appreciated...

Divesplat

My Feedback: (7)

I have always found outside rollers harder to do.

Think about the first time you ever flew a plane and your teacher had you do a turn. Start with aileron, then add a little elevator to keep your altitude and the elevator helped to make the turn. An inside roller actually works the same way, at least to start.

So forget the rudder to start, start the roll and give elevator first then as you get to knife edge, add your rudder. just like a 4 pt, opposite the direction of your ailerons, then the pattern of stick movement and required coordination sets up, of course when inverted down elev etc etc.

I have always found when doing an Inside roller remember Elevator first, when doing an outside roller remember rudder first and this may help.

Ed

Jake Ruddy

My Feedback: (40)

Hrmm that's actually interesting to me... for some reason I automatically assumed inside rollers were harder.

Once I realized to lead with the rudder for outside rollers it took me 3 nights on the sim and it just clicked. Inside rollers once in awhile I make it all the way around but it's never pretty

I think I might be leading with the rudder first again but afer the first roll it seems every time I add rudder I loose or gain speed of the roll as well as altitude.

Thanks for your quick response... off to the sim to try some more

Edge 540

I too learned outside rolling circles and later outside rolling harriers first. I find them easier because if you are going fast and you get a little late on the sticks you end up gaining altitude on the outside ones. If you are rolling in and the plane gets ahead of you lose altitude, inducing panic and then who knows what . My biggest suggestion would be to give the inputs just a little faster than you think you need to. I felt a little rushed on elevator and rudder at first trying to maintain altitude. This is for fast rollers, 4 or more in a circle. Doing 1 roll circles to the inside is really not too much different to me.

150flyer

I can do inside and outside rolling circles equally well (or equally bad), but I learned by using elevator only. Once I could switch from inside to outside in both directions, I them started to add rudder.

rcplanefan

My Feedback: (2)

Rollers come up here frequently, and I've found it hard to read the advice you see and put it to practice. Maybe just a couple of ponters and then some practice suggestions will help.

You still need to lead with the rudder. But now, as you start feeding in up elevator (if from upright), get off the rudder and begin to switch it. If you lead with the rudder, you will start the radius of the turn much more smoothly and it will make it much easier to get through the first 90 degrees or so.

I learned to do rollers on a simulator. Start low so you can see when you are climbing/decending. Make sure to practice both right and left hand circles. Also, make sure to start inverted and upright. The funny thing about rollers is that once you learn how to do them, they become some of the easiest figures to fly and you can relax during that part of the sequence. This doesn't mean it is easy to score well on them! It just means it is a time to relax and let the rythm take over. A nice change from figures with snaps in them.

Ken

tobytorkn

My Feedback: (1)

i totally agree with ken (man what am i saying, , if you lead in with rudder the maneuver flows so much better. a lot of people that don't lead in with the rudder first automatically pitch up/down when they start their roller. practice,practice,practice. toby....
www.silhavyaerosports.net

quist

My Feedback: (198)

I also agree with Ken.

When I first started doing rollers I would think of each 90 as its own manuever. Then I realized if I carry the rudder that finishes the first 90 into the second 90 the figure started looking much better and I keep a good pace.

I have been worried about the move to unlimited and facing the outside to inside to outside to inside roller then I realised it is still the same rudder input that carries from the end of the outside to the beginning of the inside. So you can still keep a pace even though you are changing roll direction.

Rcpilot

My Feedback: (78)

I can do inside and outside rollers with my trainer using only aileron and elevator. Does that make me an expert yet? [sm=tongue_smile.gif][sm=wink_smile.gif]

I'm in the same boat as Sinergy. I can do an outside roller from either direction with most planes. Including my gassers. But, the inside roller gets me all twisted up in a knot most of the time. Haven't practiced them in a while.

Ratchet

My Feedback: (1)

I'm trying to figure out a 1 roll rolling circle ... does anyone have any pointers? I've tried and tried on the simulator, but just can't get it right.

-R

Jake Ruddy

My Feedback: (40)

maybe you dont have enough rudder for the speed you are trying it at?

I just went and tried it and I think the part you are probably having a problem with is when to switch direction on the rudder... there is a point between the 1/4 and 1/2 where you need to switch rudder direction to help the turn and again bwteen 3/4 and completion

Hope this helps.

rmh

I forgot that some guys equate simulators with actual flying -

I find sims tooooo forgiving
anyway - single roller - try making a four point roll into a circle -get used to seeing attitudes
Once this is comfortable - figure the blending inputs for your plane -(or sim) they are not all the same -by a long shot
for really getting totally comfy with inside outside rollers - practice a big flat horizontal 8 with four rolls three rolls etc..
Getting good at this stuf is like learning to play a clarinet - you have to practice and try sequences which are more difficult than those you already know OR wish to learn.

Jake Ruddy

My Feedback: (40)

Well the sim is close as long as you dont go download someone's highly unrealiztcally modified plane.

Iam sure you havent played with a sim for awhile Dick but G3 is as close as it gets. I haven't been flying that long but with help from the sim you would think I have been flying many years. Of course I try and spend the time on the sim practicing.. I dont view it as a toy as some do for multiplayer and such.. its simply a tool for me when I cant be at he field.

rmh

Local shop has full blown latest G3 - it is good -
Try this
fly into a landing approach - inverted - do an outside 1/2 snap which rolls you to upright as the model touches down
in the 1930's - a guy who flew a Jungmeister- did this as part of his routine -

Jake Ruddy

My Feedback: (40)

That should have read... "I am sure you haven't had to play with a sim in for awhile" but I think you got my point


Ya that's a pretty interesting way to land.. I saw a guy (cant remember who) do a blender to the ground and roll over within feet off the ground with just enough time for the wing to clear and land a QQ 102" Yak. Personally I dont have ones that size to be thinking about stuff like that haha. That's one area where the sims to do lack.. planes still float a bit too much.. but it taught me rolling circles in a couple nights and I really like being able to hammer a move out like that.

Unfortunately it is useless for lines or anything of that nature. A foamy helped me learn rudder very quickly.. sim helped with molre advance moves and learning rolling circles both ways. Although the inside roller is still an issue for me.. I can kinda of do it one way but not the other

Lucky for me it's a ways off before I will be flying 2-3 times a week again... so I have all winter to practice.

SDR-Hammer

Sinergy, Like you I quickly picked up outside rollers with about two evenings on the sim (and it did transfer to the real thing).

Inside rollers are another story. Learning them has been like trying to throwing a baseball with my left hand (I’m a righty). So far the inside rollers to the right are coming along and if I’m having a good evening on the sim I can hold altitude all the way around. To the left is not quite that good but able to get a full circle.

If you think you still need help let me know and we’ll swap ideas.

[edit for spelling]

Jake Ruddy

My Feedback: (40)

Well I am pretty much in the same boat as you

It has been the hardest move for me to get since started flying and is pretty frustrating really Lately I have been making myself roll to the left and do outside rollers that way more. I am very good at rolling to teh right but left I still have to think about once in awhile.

I figured if I got as good at left as I am with right it may help me with the inside rollers.

I still have trouble deciding if it's too much el. or too late on the rudder which causes me to loose alt.

SDR-Hammer

I have the opposite problem, I like to gain altitude. Too much elevator too soon! My thumbs just don't quite understand moderation with this maneuver

Could also be that you’re holding rudder too long as the wings roll past parallel?

Jake Ruddy

My Feedback: (40)

Ya that could be it now that I think about it. Will have to test that later.


Climbing I could deal with.. atleast I wouldnt crash that way! hahah