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Problems with point rolls

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Old 04-07-2003, 05:57 PM
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ilikeplanes
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Default Problems with point rolls

I've been practicing my point rolls on the flight sim, and I'm having quite a bit of trouble. By the time I get to the last roll, my line is totally screwball. I'm talking about slow and controlled point rolls, not pop the ailerons four times kinda rolls.

Any tips?
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Old 04-07-2003, 08:09 PM
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OnTheEdge
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Default Re: Problems with point rolls

Originally posted by ilikeplanes
I've been practicing my point rolls on the flight sim, and I'm having quite a bit of trouble. By the time I get to the last roll, my line is totally screwball. I'm talking about slow and controlled point rolls, not pop the ailerons four times kinda rolls.

Any tips?
As a suggestion:
Try it in steps. Try to do a 1/4 roll to knifedge and then "fly" the plane in that knifeedge attidute. Do not go into the second part of the four point (assume you are talking about four point rolls)at this time. By practicing this it will help you learn to keep the plane on track by steering with the elevator and holding altitude with the rudder. Once you master this, go on to the second point of the four point and so on.

Then you know the rest: Practice, Practice,....Practice!

Hope this helps...........Mark
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Old 04-07-2003, 08:30 PM
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JRW
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Default Problems with point rolls

The flight sim is great place to get the kinks worked out. If your having problems point rolling in a zero-loss/crash environment, we should start at the basics.

* General rule (passed to me by another flyer): If you are having problems with "heading" during a roll, it is control input "timing". If you are changing altitude, it is "amount" of control input."

1. Hopefully you have an aerobatic model chosen. The first thing to really think about and CHECK, is that you are not accidently bliping the elevator when trying to just get an aileron input. IE, do a straight pass with some 1/4 rolls. Don't worry about the rudder at this point. Do the 1/4 rolls and ENSURE that you are not getting any amount of "uncommanded" elevator.

2. Lets talk about the 4 point roll. To me, the goal is to perform a beautiful, long slow-roll, with 4 tiny hessitations. The 4 point roll consists of 4 segments that can be worked on individually.

3. First segment: Practice performing only a 1/4 roll. If you are rolling right, apply small amount of rudder when the plane reaches the 80 degree point or so. IE, do NOT add the rudder to early, or you will get a definate heading change. Practice this 1/4 roll untill you get it pretty good. Essentially, you are just practicing entry into knifeedge flight.

4. Second segment: once satisfied, you will continue the roll from the 90 degree position to level inverted flight. Start to roll and ease off the rudder, adding some down elevator once the plane is about 170 degrees. IE, ease off the rudder soon, and you are adding a little elevator before it reached level inverted flight. Again, practice first two points until satisfied.

5. Heres where it gets tricky: From inverted flight (holding down elevator), roll to the right and continue to hold the down elevator. Once the plane is about 200 degrees, ease off the down elevator and start easing in right rudder. That is the hardest part - learning how to "roll" while keeping the "down" elevator input. practice that part well! This part is easy to practice, as you can enter from inverted flight, and perform a 1/4 roll in to knife edge flight.

6. Last point: start rolling to the right and ease off the rudder, stop rolling when the plane reaches level upright flight.

Some planes will need you to breathe in "up" elevator while exiting the roll into level upright flight, some planes don't need it.

The entire idea of this message is to "take-apart" the manuever that is causing you trouble. The 4 point roll contains lots of fundamental manuever elements (straight and level flight entry, 1/4 rolls, maintain heading, maintain altitude, roll rates, roll timing, centering, exit.)

The slow roll uses all the SAME inputs, but does not require the hessitations.

What you should REALLY get out of this is that at ANY level or class, learning how to use the "rudder" properly will set you apart from your classmates.
Jim Woodward
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Old 04-07-2003, 08:36 PM
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Silvanskii
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Default Problems with point rolls

First off make SURE you can accurately slow roll. Always start with basics or you will get in over your head in a heartbeat.

Then follow what the other people said.

Also practice them rolling left and right, and coming across left and right. There's nothing worse you can do than to become handed in the maneuvers.

Also a general rule of thumb is to make the airplane hesitate for approximately how long it took you to roll to that attitude.
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Old 04-07-2003, 11:43 PM
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ilikeplanes
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Default Problems with point rolls

OK, I'm doing better now. I'm flying the Cap and it pulls to the canopy during knife edge, that was one thing I had to work out. The other was that I was slopping the controls together. Each position of the four-point are for distinct stick inputs. When I used too much overlap during the transition, I was all over the place.

The slow roll seems to be a greater level of difficulty. At least I'm having a harder time flying it.

Rodger on the rudder thing. I'm only flying Basic class, but I'm try other things to get my rudder thumb wired-in. Knife edge, point rolls, and heli's. It seems to be working.

Jim, thanks for the tutorial. I'll refer to it as I go.
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Old 04-08-2003, 02:17 AM
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Doug Cronkhite
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Default Problems with point rolls

Using the rudder too soon, pull the nose offline with elevator, and other such things can happen during the rolling into the points. You need to make sure you're ONLY using aileron to roll, and not mixing in something else, and try to use the rudder later in the actual point.. too much rudder as you start can pull the nose off significantly.

-Doug
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