IMAC Discuss IMAC style aerobatics in here

Aresti question

Reply
Old 12-07-2008, 12:27 AM
  #1
pilotman520
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Euless, TX
Posts: 40
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default Aresti question

Hi all,

Going to compete in basic this season but couldn't help but look at the sportsman pattern. I was wondering what is the difference when it says 2x4 as opposed to 3/4. I think 3/4 is 3 points of a 4 point roll but not sure about the other. Thanks and look for to seeing some of you out in the southcentral circuit.

Pilotman520
pilotman520 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2008, 01:16 AM
  #2
sweetpea01
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Lebanon OH
Posts: 3,311
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Aresti question

Nope.

Aresti is redefining the way the rolls are labled.

2x4 is now 2pts of a 4pt roll.

2x8 is 2pts of a 8pt roll and so on.

3/4 is just that. three-quarters of 1 full roll.


I think this was too stop some confusion on rolling manuevers while trying to read the Aresti
sweetpea01 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2009, 01:55 PM
  #3
Jetdesign
 
Jetdesign's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mason, OH
Posts: 7,054
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Aresti question

Is there posted somewhere the 2008 or 2009 sequences listed as maneuver names, and not arresti or video? For example:

1: stall turn
2: half-reverse Cuban-8
3: 2-point roll
4: etc.

On page 5 of this forum is a very nice narrative. Something like that for 2009 would be awesome, or at least I could cut and paste a few of the maneuvers.

I feel like it would be easier to learn some of the maneuvers first before trying to learn Arresti.
Jetdesign is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2009, 02:39 PM
  #4
bjamesjr
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Elizabethtown, PA
Posts: 68
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Aresti question

To be honest, you are probably not going to see any more write-ups. As IMAC progresses forward, the consensus is for a new pilot to learn Aresti. You will need to know it before you go to Sportsman as you have unkowns to fly in Sportsman and above and you will most certainly need to know Aresti to be able to fly them. I know it looks hard and at first it is, but once you see the pattern in them it becomes loads easier. There are a ton of good IMAC pilots in your area that I am sure would be willing to help you out

If asked really really nice, I can write-up something for everyone again, the ones you are referencing I did previously


Wayne does put out these videos every year though

Basic

http://www.rcvideohub.com/play.php?vid=109

Sportsman

http://www.rcvideohub.com/play.php?vid=110

Intermediate

http://www.rcvideohub.com/play.php?vid=111

Advanced

http://www.rcvideohub.com/play.php?vid=113

Unlimited

http://www.rcvideohub.com/play.php?vid=116
bjamesjr is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2009, 02:47 PM
  #5
Grelker
 
Grelker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Bellevue, WA
Posts: 297
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Aresti question

I could not log on to your link as I was asked for a user name and password.
Grelker is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2009, 02:52 PM
  #6
bjamesjr
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Elizabethtown, PA
Posts: 68
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Aresti question


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Grelker

I could not log on to your link as I was asked for a user name and password.
I noticed that and changed the locations for all the video's, see my previous post, it's been edited
bjamesjr is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2009, 02:57 PM
  #7
Grelker
 
Grelker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Bellevue, WA
Posts: 297
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Aresti question

I noticed that you changed it as I was writing a my first post!
Grelker is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2009, 03:03 PM
  #8
bjamesjr
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Elizabethtown, PA
Posts: 68
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Aresti question


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Grelker

I noticed that you changed it as I was writing a my first post!
Cool, I'm working on the basic narrative right now, should be done in about 1/2 hour (not known for my typing speed)[:'(]
bjamesjr is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2009, 03:24 PM
  #9
Jetdesign
 
Jetdesign's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mason, OH
Posts: 7,054
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Aresti question

Thank you guys. Watching the videos with an arresti schedule might help a lot. Much appreciated.
Jetdesign is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2009, 04:30 PM
  #10
bjamesjr
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Elizabethtown, PA
Posts: 68
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Aresti question

Here's the 209 Basic Narrative. Please remember to try to learn Aresti

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_83...tm.htm#8318116
bjamesjr is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2009, 06:33 PM
  #11
Jetdesign
 
Jetdesign's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mason, OH
Posts: 7,054
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Aresti question

BJames, thanks so much! I think looking at your narrative along with the arresti schedule should help to learn arresti. I started flying pattern this past summer, but since their schedules are 'written in English' there was not much motivation to learn Arresti.

Again, thanks!
Jetdesign is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 12:22 AM
  #12
Jetdesign
 
Jetdesign's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mason, OH
Posts: 7,054
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Aresti question

Well after reading the narrative side-by-side with the Arresti schedule, I am amazed at how foreign it looked before, and how simple it looks now! I do have a few questions though:

The schedule shows a start point (dot) and an end point (vertical line). Often they are at different "levels" or heights. Is this irrelevant, as the maneuver should really start and end at the same level (hammerhead, teardrop, sharks tooth, half reverse Cuban 8 all have what I'm referring to; obviously moves like split S start and end at two different altitudes).

What does the dotted red line mean? Just a reminder to evenly space the rolls, etc.?

On some maneuvers, loops, 5/8 loops, etc. are shown rounded, while other pulls/pushes are angular. Can someone please clarify why that is? I thought all pushes, pulls, and loop sections should have equal radius.

Thanks guys! I'm psyched
Jetdesign is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 03:46 PM
  #13
bjamesjr
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Elizabethtown, PA
Posts: 68
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Aresti question


Quote:
ORIGINAL: gaRCfield

Well after reading the narrative side-by-side with the Arresti schedule, I am amazed at how foreign it looked before, and how simple it looks now! I do have a few questions though:

The schedule shows a start point (dot) and an end point (vertical line). Often they are at different "levels" or heights. Is this irrelevant, as the maneuver should really start and end at the same level (hammerhead, teardrop, sharks tooth, half reverse Cuban 8 all have what I'm referring to; obviously moves like split S start and end at two different altitudes).
This is mainly to be able to fit the sequence onto one sheet. If you look closely at the Aresti, you'll see a faint line connecting some of them together

Quote:
What does the dotted red line mean? Just a reminder to evenly space the rolls, etc.?
Inverted or negative "G" flight

Quote:
On some maneuvers, loops, 5/8 loops, etc. are shown rounded, while other pulls/pushes are angular. Can someone please clarify why that is? I thought all pushes, pulls, and loop sections should have equal radius.
Not all maneuvers have an equal radius. You can find out all of this in the judging guide. Let's take the sharks tooth as an example. When you pull the vertical line you want a nice crisp radius on the pull, not really hard but definitlive where on the 45 degree line the pull to level flight will not be any where near the same radius. Now the pull to the 45-degree line from the vertical line should be the same as the radius you used to pull to the vertical line so lets say it took you 3 seconds to pull to vertical, then the pull to the 45 should be three seconds, but then the pull to level does not have to be the same.

As far as part and full loops are concerned, the radius of the loop must be the same all the way through the loop or part loop.

Again, as I mentioned in the narrative, think symmetry. You do not want to have the judges asking themselves what did he just do, was that a part loop or did he actually pull 90 degrees so make your 90/45 pulls and pushes in such a way that there can be no doubt that is what you did

Here's the judging guide

http://www.modelaircraft.org/events/...aerobatics.pdf

Quote:
Thanks guys! I'm psyched
There is a Judging school at Ray's Hobby shop soon that is being done by Tony Bonnano and Bill Lairsey. I would suggest you go to it if you can, you'll learn a ton, both are quite capable judges
bjamesjr is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 04:45 PM
  #14
Silent-AV8R
 
Silent-AV8R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 5,308
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Aresti question

Regarding the radius of entry and exit partial loops, there is no such criteria as "crispness". Pulling to a vertical line for instance there is no such thing as a "crisp" pull when it comes to judging. That radius can be as large or small as you like. What matters is that the initial radius must be matched in other pulls/pulls or exits on most figures. There are exceptions, but in general the radius of the entry and exit must be the same (both large or both small).

Also, in Aresti do not confuse very sharp corners as meaning tight radius. That is a simple way of depicting the change in attitude and means a smaller than 1/2 loop line segment (1/4 loop, 1/8, etc.). The radius should still be smooth and at whatever size you desire..
Silent-AV8R is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 05:59 PM
  #15
bjamesjr
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Elizabethtown, PA
Posts: 68
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Aresti question


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R

Regarding the radius of entry and exit partial loops, there is no such criteria as "crispness". Pulling to a vertical line for instance there is no such thing as a "crisp" pull when it comes to judging. That radius can be as large or small as you like. What matters is that the initial radius must be matched in other pulls/pulls or exits on most figures. There are exceptions, but in general the radius of the entry and exit must be the same (both large or both small).

Also, in Aresti do not confuse very sharp corners as meaning tight radius. That is a simple way of depicting the change in attitude and means a smaller than 1/2 loop line segment (1/4 loop, 1/8, etc.). The radius should still be smooth and at whatever size you desire..
I agree, there is no criteria for the crispness, I was using a term to make a point and that is why I also included the link to the judging criteria and suggested attendance at a school. If I caused any confusion, I apologize
bjamesjr is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2009, 04:08 AM
  #16
Danny Baker
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posts: 56
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Aresti question

Now the pull to the 45-degree line from the vertical line should be the same as the radius you used to pull to the vertical line so lets say it took you 3 seconds to pull to vertical, then the pull to the 45 should be three seconds

This statement is incorrect. Family 1.12, Fig. #17, in the IMAC F&JG states radius A, B, and C in a sharks tooth need NOT be the same.
Danny Baker is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2009, 07:25 AM
  #17
bjamesjr
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Elizabethtown, PA
Posts: 68
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Aresti question

Danny,

While that is correct, let's take a look at what scores the best. I know, I know, the guide says one thing and I'm well aware of it, but more often than not, impression is what matters and if you can make all the radi look the same then flow and symmetry work well and ASC score will improve
bjamesjr is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2009, 07:35 AM
  #18
exeter_acres
 
exeter_acres's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Johns Creek, GA
Posts: 7,457
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Aresti question


Quote:
ORIGINAL: bjamesjr

Danny,

While that is correct, let's take a look at what scores the best. I know, I know, the guide says one thing and I'm well aware of it, but more often than not, impression is what matters and if you can make all the radi look the same then flow and symmetry work well and ASC score will improve

then those judges need to be properly educated.....

mini- seminars at the pilots meeting, etc. etc.

we MUST judge by the rules
exeter_acres is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2009, 07:43 AM
  #19
sewbusy
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Acworth, GA,
Posts: 79
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Aresti question


Quote:
ORIGINAL: exeter_acres


Quote:
ORIGINAL: bjamesjr

Danny,

While that is correct, let's take a look at what scores the best. I know, I know, the guide says one thing and I'm well aware of it, but more often than not, impression is what matters and if you can make all the radi look the same then flow and symmetry work well and ASC score will improve

then those judges need to be properly educated.....

mini- seminars at the pilots meeting, etc. etc.

we MUST judge by the rules
You are perfectly correct Curtis. This is the ONLY way we will ever be judged fairly....and that is by the rules.
Wayne
sewbusy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2009, 06:34 PM
  #20
jhess
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: sarasota, FL
Posts: 43
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Aresti question

You can find great sequence videos on rc video hub
jhess is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:18 AM.