IMAC beginners.......2003 Basic sequence now online
#1
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IMAC beginners.......2003 Basic sequence now online
Is there any interest in getting a video up of a sequence or two for the benefit of the IMAC beginners out there who are interested in seeing what a sequence should look like? I am thinking for the people who haven't been to a contest yet or who are trying to figure this whole IMAC thing out, we can get a demo video up of flying some sequences. The first benefit would be people can see what a sequence should roughly look like. The second benefit I am thinking would be we can have a discussion, talking about and grading each maneuver on the vid. This will help the less experienced competitors find out what the judges are looking for, as well as helping the beginners who will be judging in their next contest. If there is any interest, I can make a vid of any the first three sequences within a week or so. Let me know!
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IMAC beginners.......2003 Basic sequence now online
Flyfalcons, you've been reading my mind! Was just now going to start a thread on this very subject. Maybe you can use my experience and questions as a guide for what we IMAC beginners are looking for:
Ok, last year I finally finished building a 28% Ohio RC Sukhoi and was able to fly it 3 times before the weather closed in. I found out that this was a serious machine that demanded more than the usual Sunday throw around maneuvers. The desire to become a disciplined flyer and work toward a definite goal was now important to me. This season, through RCU, I was directed to the IMAC website and downloaded all the 2003 sequences. Then I found a great article by Dan Wolanski in the Sept 2002 Model Airplane News about how to fly the Basic Sequence. I've never seen an IMAC meet but I fired up my G2 simulator and attempted to perform the basic seq. as described in the article.
Well my first reaction was, "hmmm.. they want to do the side maneuvers 600 feet out, 100 yards away with a recommended min altitude 100 feet and a max of 500 feet. What does that look like? Seems pretty far away. Wonder what the timing is like between maneuvers? Seems like a lot of straight and level.. Sure wish I could see an expert do this first."
Then there were other questions like... Maybe I should just practice one maneuver at a time over and over and forget about the sequence until later. Wind corrections? Speeds?
Well anyway, consider the above as one vote in favor of making a video. You've really hit the nail on the head with your offer Flyfalcons, thanks very much.
Ok, last year I finally finished building a 28% Ohio RC Sukhoi and was able to fly it 3 times before the weather closed in. I found out that this was a serious machine that demanded more than the usual Sunday throw around maneuvers. The desire to become a disciplined flyer and work toward a definite goal was now important to me. This season, through RCU, I was directed to the IMAC website and downloaded all the 2003 sequences. Then I found a great article by Dan Wolanski in the Sept 2002 Model Airplane News about how to fly the Basic Sequence. I've never seen an IMAC meet but I fired up my G2 simulator and attempted to perform the basic seq. as described in the article.
Well my first reaction was, "hmmm.. they want to do the side maneuvers 600 feet out, 100 yards away with a recommended min altitude 100 feet and a max of 500 feet. What does that look like? Seems pretty far away. Wonder what the timing is like between maneuvers? Seems like a lot of straight and level.. Sure wish I could see an expert do this first."
Then there were other questions like... Maybe I should just practice one maneuver at a time over and over and forget about the sequence until later. Wind corrections? Speeds?
Well anyway, consider the above as one vote in favor of making a video. You've really hit the nail on the head with your offer Flyfalcons, thanks very much.
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IMAC beginners.......2003 Basic sequence now online
Guys, after sitting on the fence for years, I finally got enough nerve and flew my first IMAC contest this last weekend. I went there on the Friday and on Friday afternoon one of the unlimited pilots helped me through the routine a few times. By the end of the weekend I had learned more than any video can teach you.
Seriously, dont wait, just do it. It's an awesome experience.
Craig.
Seriously, dont wait, just do it. It's an awesome experience.
Craig.
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IMAC beginners.......2003 Basic sequence now online
Have thought about the instructional video for aerobatics and several key issues come to mind.
1) Where would the camara be set and at what distance would it be set at. Would it follow the plane or would it be set back far enough to view the entire aerobatic box?
The reason I ask is the times I have seen a plane filmed where the camara is moving with the plane, you lost total perspective of horizon, distance and straight and level flight(probably the most important maneuver performed) as well as equal radius' or pinching top or bottom of manuevers. If the camara is set, far enough back to view the entire box, would the performance be useful due to the distance of the plane, pictured on a TV.
2) Would the sequence be flown on a windy day so correct wind correction could be viewed?
Sadly, wind correction often during straight and level flight would not be visible on a video. However, on vertical manuevers it would be.
3) Using a video for judging can be very misleading due to the above 2 issues.
Personally believe the better teacher is to attend a contest, scribe for judges and ask questions, after already reading the rule book(missed by many people.) Show up Friday(if possible) and watch and talk and ask questions.
These are just thoughts that should go into any form of training video for aerobatics, especially where judging is concerned.
Ed
1) Where would the camara be set and at what distance would it be set at. Would it follow the plane or would it be set back far enough to view the entire aerobatic box?
The reason I ask is the times I have seen a plane filmed where the camara is moving with the plane, you lost total perspective of horizon, distance and straight and level flight(probably the most important maneuver performed) as well as equal radius' or pinching top or bottom of manuevers. If the camara is set, far enough back to view the entire box, would the performance be useful due to the distance of the plane, pictured on a TV.
2) Would the sequence be flown on a windy day so correct wind correction could be viewed?
Sadly, wind correction often during straight and level flight would not be visible on a video. However, on vertical manuevers it would be.
3) Using a video for judging can be very misleading due to the above 2 issues.
Personally believe the better teacher is to attend a contest, scribe for judges and ask questions, after already reading the rule book(missed by many people.) Show up Friday(if possible) and watch and talk and ask questions.
These are just thoughts that should go into any form of training video for aerobatics, especially where judging is concerned.
Ed
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IMAC beginners.......2003 Basic sequence now online
Good Idea! I can tell you that the plane is very hard to see it the way it's supposed to look when looking at it on video. I have tried this with full scale aircraft with my small video cam and it's worthless but I'm not a pro camera man with good stuff. I'm now getting out of full scale IAC acro and into IMAC. It's all cool stuff you guy's got going hear! Same concept but a LOT less $$$$. I'll be asking the stupid questions real soon. I'll finish my 1/3 scale Hanger 9 Cap 232 first. Rob
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IMAC beginners.......2003 Basic sequence now online
Hi gang
I fly a CAP 232 40 sized and am learning the basics and trying to get things going but its hard since I dont have anyone to teach me Id love to see a video and maybe an explanantion of basic moves. I did my first snap rolls today and some cool invert to snap sequences. I still need to fix the mixing and dual rates but its really fun!
A video for me is a good idea and maybe a brief explanation on how the maneuver is performed
I fly a CAP 232 40 sized and am learning the basics and trying to get things going but its hard since I dont have anyone to teach me Id love to see a video and maybe an explanantion of basic moves. I did my first snap rolls today and some cool invert to snap sequences. I still need to fix the mixing and dual rates but its really fun!
A video for me is a good idea and maybe a brief explanation on how the maneuver is performed
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IMAC beginners.......2003 Basic sequence now online
A quick, temporary solution would be if one of the IMAC veterans could post a saved file from his G2 Simulator. (Preferably using one of the planes that come with the sim, CAP or Ultimate.) Lots of limitations there I realize but it could be a starting point.
#9
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IMAC beginners.......2003 Basic sequence now online
Sorry I haven't been following my own thread; I left for the Wenatchee IMAC shortly after starting it. I'll try to post a vid in the next day or two; I will shoot several sequences and see which one presents best on the video. It won't be as good as going to a contest but it'll be something to look at.
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IMAC beginners.......2003 Basic sequence now online
As far as the viewing angle what about a split screen shot. 1 frame could be a close up of the plane the other could be a wide shot showing the box.
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I love the the idea! I have the 2002 TOC and there are a few sequences on there with a caller, but those aren't the lower level sequences I'd like to see. Sign me up for one when you get em!!
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Video
I just finished a search hoping to find exactly what you guys are talking about. Then I found this thread.
I've spent hours on the sim learning the intermediate sequence but I can't guarantee myself that its right. This realization gives me the feeling I may be developing bad habits. I'd hate to try and change it all on a friday before a contest.
One of the problems I'm having is trying to determine the wing position during a 1-1/4 turn spin. Although the manuver is simple I don't know exactly when to start the count. Is it right before the plane drops a wing? What if you have a hesitation and the plane yaws one way but breaks into the spin the other. I'm treating it as if the turns begin based on the wing position prior to the spin. Depending on the wind I find myself coming straight at myself just prior to pulling it up for the hammerhead. I seem to end up almost over my head....which can't be right...Does the exit "cross Box" have you going away from yourself in one case and towards yourself in another?
There's many questions to be answered through a video. It doesn't even have to be a known sequence. It just has to cover the aresti figures.
The thing that makes it worth the effort is that it takes the guess work out. If we had IMAC meets all the time, I'd just go to them. Unfortunately I can only get to a few but have hours to practice here at home. The other thing is that I can watch it over and over again.
I will go to the meets but the video idea is the missing link for beginners. A guy could really put in a lot of hard work in practicing...only to find out that he's been doing things the wrong way for days....weeks....months.
I've spent hours on the sim learning the intermediate sequence but I can't guarantee myself that its right. This realization gives me the feeling I may be developing bad habits. I'd hate to try and change it all on a friday before a contest.
One of the problems I'm having is trying to determine the wing position during a 1-1/4 turn spin. Although the manuver is simple I don't know exactly when to start the count. Is it right before the plane drops a wing? What if you have a hesitation and the plane yaws one way but breaks into the spin the other. I'm treating it as if the turns begin based on the wing position prior to the spin. Depending on the wind I find myself coming straight at myself just prior to pulling it up for the hammerhead. I seem to end up almost over my head....which can't be right...Does the exit "cross Box" have you going away from yourself in one case and towards yourself in another?
There's many questions to be answered through a video. It doesn't even have to be a known sequence. It just has to cover the aresti figures.
The thing that makes it worth the effort is that it takes the guess work out. If we had IMAC meets all the time, I'd just go to them. Unfortunately I can only get to a few but have hours to practice here at home. The other thing is that I can watch it over and over again.
I will go to the meets but the video idea is the missing link for beginners. A guy could really put in a lot of hard work in practicing...only to find out that he's been doing things the wrong way for days....weeks....months.
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IMAC beginners.......2003 Basic sequence now online
Maybe make 2 videos at the same time. One zoomed in on the action and the other backed off to give a horizon reference. You would not be able to view both at the same time, but by watching them back to back several times the viewer should get a better idea.
Ed M.
Ed M.
#15
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IMAC beginners.......2003 Basic sequence now online
Thanks for the suggestions guys. I'll try to get together with JohnVH and pump out a few sequence vids in the next couple days.
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IMAC beginners.......2003 Basic sequence now online
OK guys, the video is taken, now, how large of a movie can you guys download? Its gonna be a few minutes so Ill estimate if at good quality will be 8-12mb. Is that going to be to much for anyone? Dial up will be bad no matter what, but is that a good size for everyone?
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Had a look....
OK, to put a perspective on this, I've been back in the hobby for nearly two years and just got around to soloing a few weeks back, so I've not been involved in any competitions. I'm just looking into what my options are, so I've got something to aim for.....
A few days ago I looked here and printed out the sequence diagram.
Looking at the video, I can relate the diagram to the actual sequence to see what the maneuvers look like. A couple of pointers to improve the video:
1. Add a narration so we can identify the maneuvers..
2. Don't zoom out so far in between the individual maneuvers, I lost the plane a couple of times...
3. The last maneuver was cut short. I couldn't correlate it to the diagram.
Apart from that, it was a very good indication of what's involved in performing a basic sequence. Well done!
A few days ago I looked here and printed out the sequence diagram.
Looking at the video, I can relate the diagram to the actual sequence to see what the maneuvers look like. A couple of pointers to improve the video:
1. Add a narration so we can identify the maneuvers..
2. Don't zoom out so far in between the individual maneuvers, I lost the plane a couple of times...
3. The last maneuver was cut short. I couldn't correlate it to the diagram.
Apart from that, it was a very good indication of what's involved in performing a basic sequence. Well done!
#25
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IMAC beginners.......2003 Basic sequence now online
Tigger, download the vid. Sometimes when you watch it direct it seems to cut a few seconds off. I downloaded it and it went through the wing rock at the end.
Thanks for the vid pointers. I asked John to zoom out some during the repositioning to get an idea of the 'big picture', and at the quality that his computer spit out the vid, it is tough to see the orientation when zoomed out. I also asked John to stand back about 50' to get a good idea of where the airplane is in relationship to me, which made it difficult to narrate. In the next video I will have John stand next to me and I'll talk through the maneuvers.
Thanks for the vid pointers. I asked John to zoom out some during the repositioning to get an idea of the 'big picture', and at the quality that his computer spit out the vid, it is tough to see the orientation when zoomed out. I also asked John to stand back about 50' to get a good idea of where the airplane is in relationship to me, which made it difficult to narrate. In the next video I will have John stand next to me and I'll talk through the maneuvers.