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Bee II that won't start on Kero

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Old 02-04-2014, 08:12 PM
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niteflyer
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Default Bee II that won't start on Kero

I purchased a used Bee II that previous owner had been using as a gas start. After setting ECU back to KERO AUTO turbine goes into
start sequence but all I'm getting is a big cloud of smoke. So, obviously getting kero and igniter must be hot so why isn't it burning? I did
try slowing pump start pw from 25 to 20 then to 15 but just made the smoke plume a little smaller. Igniter power is at 6.3 v and it's running
a 2 cell 7.4v li mag fully charged battery. Suggestions ??
Thanks,
Arnold
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Old 02-06-2014, 09:32 PM
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Silly question-- did you re-plumb the system so that it is correct for kero start? PropaneGas start line will be seperated from the kero pump line.
Kero start will have both solenoids connected in the pump OUT with a tee or y connector line..There should be plumbing diagram in the manual

http://www.jetcentral.com.mx/manuals/bee2013.pdf


If plumbed correctly try increasing the pump ign PWR some. You may not have enough fuel to get a get a good burn going to to get to switchover.

Keep the extinguisher close by!
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Old 02-06-2014, 11:47 PM
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Hey zonker123,
Yes the plumbing is set up according to manual. I didn't try going higher with the Pump pw because it was blowing what seemed like a fair amount of smoke
already. That's why I reduced the pw to see what happened. I can try going higher to see. I do have a Rabbit "Kero" start so I am familiar with the sight and sound
of a kero start starting. Thanks for the suggestion!

Arnold
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Old 02-07-2014, 06:35 AM
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What kind of error message are you getting when the turbine shuts down during the start? I have a Cheeta that gave the same issue with the same conditions you describe one time. Got an "ignition fail" message. increased the ign pump pwr by a few points and everything was good.

let us know what happens.

mike
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Old 02-07-2014, 06:59 AM
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Hello niteflyer
Smoke means that the fuel is igniting so either you have too much fuel and cooling the glow or too little power at the glow
I suggest to first try to lower the pump power ig. K valueHello niteflyer
Smoke means that the fuel is igniting so either you have too much fuel and cooling the glow or too little power at the glow
I suggest to first try to lower the pump power ig. K value
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Old 02-10-2014, 05:26 PM
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Niteflyer:

Please go to the START menue. Navigate thru the start menue writing down each parameter you see beginning with the first one. Please post on this thread so we can review and comment. Kero start requires a different solenoid than gas start and as Zonker stated is plumbed different. What ECU battery are u using with your set up?

Regards,
Eric Clapp
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Old 02-10-2014, 08:04 PM
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Zonker, Had a chance to try bumping up the pw on the start fuel, it just blowes more smoke and goes into "ignition fail".

Juan, I previously turned down start kero thinking the same thing, cooling off igniter too much but that didn't help. Then bumped up the voltage from 6.2 to
7v and that didn't help....

Eric, i'll write down the settings tomorrow and post them here. I took off the fuel line from the pump y that went to the "K" start selanoid and capped it then
plugged in propane to the "k" solenoid and set ECU to Gas Auto and the engine started first time. So engine runs fine, just would like to have it Kero start.

Thanks guys,
Arnold
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Old 02-11-2014, 07:12 PM
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Engine- JF50 309

Start menu
Glow Plug 6.4
Low Battery 6.0
Pump pw ign K 24
Start mode Auto-Kero

Using a Duralite EXB Li-Manganese 4300mah 7.4v for the turbine
Turbine pump has single line on out side to a Tee, one line to "K" solenoid and one to "F" solenoid

Have tried adjusting "Pump pw ign K" from the 24 up to 30 and down to 18..... simply changed the amount of smoke on trying to start.
Have tried adjusting "Glow Plug" voltage from the 6.4 up to 7v........

Thanks,
Arnold
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Old 02-14-2014, 08:28 AM
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Arnold:

Settings are where they need to be for kero start. Depending on distance fuel must travel to turbine, Pump pw ign K may need to be increased. When you changed over from gas to kero start, did you change the gas start solenoid to the kero start solenoid? Kero start solenoid is marked with K. Also, if K solenoid is plugged into F solenoid and vise versa, this means you are feeding the combustion chamber with fuel from the 4mm line during the kero start process. Just double check by using the two prime functions in the INFO section of the system.

We will sort this out;may take a few "back and forths" !

Eric
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Old 02-14-2014, 11:09 AM
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Hello Arnold
Is there a chance you can test with a Lipo? I have seen some problems over time with Li-manganese, probably the voltage is dropping too much during the burner on that stage
Juan
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Old 02-15-2014, 06:08 AM
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Eric,
As stated previously I purchased this engine used, he was using it as a gas start and I'm assuming he was using the solenoids that he sent to me. there
is a "K" and a "F" the k has a 4mm inlet and a 3mm outlet and the f is 4mm/4mm. On start up the "K" pulsates. I have adjusted the pump pw ign k up to 30
and down as far as 15.......the only thing noticeably different is the amount of smoke blowing out the tail pipe. I have then played with increasing the glow
plug voltage from 6.2 up 7v (don't know how high I can go but battery voltage itself is 7.4 nominal) When switching back to gas start it is obviously a
different solenoid for gas start because this "K" pulsates so the gas burn sounds different but still is effective in the start up process.

Juan,
I have a 2 cell lipo that I can try next time I make it to the shop.

Thanks for the help guys,
Arnold
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Old 02-23-2014, 12:54 PM
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Hey Guys,
Using a Lipo made no noticeable difference,,,,,, Smoke with no burn. I guess if everyone has ran out of suggestions
i'll just run this engine as a gas start until it's time to send in for a check up. Should I get a different gas solenoid or continue
to use the "K" solenoid for the gas start?

Arnold
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Old 02-25-2014, 07:34 AM
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Arnold:

Solenoids F and K are the correct units. F has the 4mm line and K has the 3mm line exiting the solenoid. Referring to the HDT (data terminal) when you initiate the start sequence, you should see burner on. If it fails to ignite, it should show "ign fail." The only two reasons for ignition fail will be, igniter not hot enough (look up nozzle when you initiate start sequence) or too high or too low of the parameter "fuel pmp ign K."

Eric
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