RCISFUN

My Feedback: (44)

I am the owner of a slightly used Falcon that I bought here on RCU and I performed a test run sequence yesterday after I installed the engine into my airframe.

When performing the start sequence, the propane will light and the I.C.S. will command the starter for its three attempts for an ignition, however the I.C.S. does not go to fuel ramp. I.e. the pump is not commanded to run as I can not see any movement of fuel in the lines. I noticed that the EG temperature does not rise while on the propane sequence.

After about three separate attempts I decided to prime the pump to make sure it would run. I followed the manuals instructions and held the throttle stick high for 5 seconds and the I.C.S. started the pump, when I pushed the stick to low throttle it went to the start sequence and the engine then started.

After shutting down the engine and letting it cool I decided to try another start as I figured that now all of the lines are full of fuel it should start normally. Well it did not as it did the same thing as before, light on propane, no temperature rise, and no fuel ramp.

So I primed the motor again and then it started, I then called the original owner and he told me that it had always did this so he considered it normal. Two of my buddies own Super Bees and they tell me this is not a normal start sequence, so this is my question:

Is this a normal starting procedure or is there a setting that needs to be adjusted?

Thanks
Rich

jclittle

My Feedback: (99)

I have only needed to prime it once when first installed on both my Rhino and Super Eagle.

RCISFUN

My Feedback: (44)

I wonder... could this be a restrictor issue like what was described in this post?
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6295584/tm.htm

causeitflies

Rich, FWIW, I've only run my Falcon a few times but with the air temp. in the 50's I had to keep the Powermax can attached (inverted) to supply enough pressure to bring the temp up to fuel ramp. So, yes I think it could be related to the restrictor.

RCISFUN

My Feedback: (44)

Thanks for the thought Mark; I do have an e-mail into Eric however I know he is in Germany at the moment so I'm sure he will get back to me when he gets home.

I hope you are still planning on the Oct_turbo fest in a few weeks, should be a good time.

Rich

Adil Nasim

My Feedback: (61)

Hi Rich,

This is not the normal starting procedure. Pump prime is only required once and consequent starts do not require this.

Please make sure your temperature probe is inserted in the tail cone properly. You may not be getting enough gas to get the tempertaure up enough to start the fuel ramp. Are you using Powermax or propane? I prefer to use proplane and keep it connected for a few seconds until engine is ramping on fuel (only on cold days).

You could try to take the gas restrictor out and blow air in it in reverse to make sure it is not clogged.

If you still have this problem, I'd wait for Eric to respond. He is in Germany but will be monitoring.

Thanks - Adil

RCISFUN

My Feedback: (44)

Thanks Adil,
I am using propane with a regulator set to high, I kept the propane connected during the start sequence, the probe is inserted (by the factory) at 1/16" as per the manual.

Rich

causeitflies

When I get a chance to run mine again, which may be awile, I'm going to try propane with a regulator and propane without a regulator. The few times I ran it was with Powermax. A restart with the engine still warm was no problem but at ambient 50 deg. I had the same problem with low temps and no ramp.

I'm still planning on Octurbo-Fest.

pilott28

My Feedback: (27)

My engines do this, and I know of several other folks as well.

If you have the adjustable ECU and are using the restrictor, experiment with increasing the gas pressure on the ECU until you get reliable starts. Leaving your gas canister connected to the plane and operating the trigger valve while it starts will also supply more gas and ramp the temp up. As suggested earlier, make sure the temp probe is inserted in the tailcone.

afterburner

My Feedback: (18)

When I was starting my Eagle for the first time, I had called Eric because the prime sequence was incorrect in the manual and I needed help to get into the menus. He told me that he keeps the propane bottle hooked up while the start sequence is initiated. He also showed me his home made propane adapter and it was just a Bernzomatic screw on torch with a brass tube soldered into the tip. . I've only started my Eagle about five or six times but each start was flawless and I had the propane bottle connected and the knob opened all the way.

Marty

causeitflies

Here are my two methods for propane:

RCISFUN

My Feedback: (44)

Mark I have the one that is shown with the regulator, I am going to build the one without the regulator soon to try.

Rich

afterburner

My Feedback: (18)

Was there somewhere in the manual that stated the need for a regulator? I thought the restrictor in the line was there to reduce the pressure? Maybe I missed something.

Marty

causeitflies

Marty,
Nothing in the manual. The regulator is what guys use on most turbines that don't have the inline restrictor. I made the straight nipple for my JDE Wren 54 manual start and it was too much pressure and and hard to control. So, I adapted the regulator and it worked perfect. You could probably use the regulator if the restrictor is removed.
Another thing Eric said was that Powermax is hard to get in Mexico and they use propane exclusively, which is higher pressure than Powermax. They fill the onboard tank with propane which I haven't tried yet.

joeflyer

My Feedback: (48)

First take out the restrictor and blow through it opposite of normal flow to make sure it isn't partially plugged. Also make sure your thermocouple is inserted the proper depth as previously suggested.

I use Powermax and was not pleased with how my Falcon started when new. It usually lights off on the first starter cycle. You can hear it bearly burning. Then it would take several more starter cycles to get it hot enough to start fuel ramp. If the Powermax can was left connected during the start sequence and you squeezed the trigger a couple of times it would get to fuel ramp quicker.

I believe that Jet Central has the restrictor sized a bit too small. My fix was to delete their restrictor and replace it with a remote needle valve from an OS91 DF engine. It starts fine with the valve about 1/4 turn open. When the Powermax can is getting near empty and has less pressure I open it up a click or two. Also in colder weather I open it up a couple of clicks. Works great.

I gathered from some previous posts that Eric has a slightly larger restrictor available. You might want to have him send you one, or try a needle valve (just be careful not to open it up too much).

Joe

RCISFUN

My Feedback: (44)

Well I have to report that I was contacted by the Service Manager (Juan) at Jet Central in Mexico, all I can say is WOW!!!!!
Jet Central’s service to its customers is Phenomenal.
I was told that I will have a new restrictor and a new manual at my house tomorrow free of charge.
I do not know of any company that would do this for someone, especially as I bought this engine used here on RCU.

Service certainly sells, and Jet Central will get my future business.

Thank you Juan and Jet Central for being customer orientated; something that is all too often forgotten by many businesses of today.


Rich Miller

seanreit

My Feedback: (60)

I continue to not be able to say enough good things about this company. Felipe is a jewel asset to this hobby as well.

Glad you were taken care of!

avicom

My Feedback: (14)

Rich, I'm the owner of the Super Eagle of the post link above. Yes, I bet you have a restrictor issue. Juan Ramón sent me a new restrictor and a new selenoid withing only one day from Mexico to Puerto Rico. Only I can say about that service is WOW!!!! I just insert the new restrictor who is only a decimal bigger than the old ones and my problem is gone. So I still have the new selenoid valve for test later. Make sure if you using the regulator valve whith the restrictor open it to full and set the gas flow to 100% the selenoid will regulated the flow of gas to the turbine and the restrictor will only allow the correct amount of gas. Important if you decide to try without using the selenoid nor the restrictor then you have to open the regulating valve no more than 3 or 4 clicks. Now if you get the new gas selenoid and decide to test it, then start with the gas flow set to 10% and go up gradually until you are satisfy with the start. My glow voltage is set at 33 and gas flow to 100% now. After install the new valve I estimate that my flow setting will go down to 55% again may be less.

Rgs
Alejandro

RCISFUN

My Feedback: (44)

I don't have the code to change my gas values[]
Actually gas adjustment is not an option with this I.C.S.
From the manual :

7 ADVANCED PROGRAMMING
These parameters cannot be accessed without a special code.
The I.C.S. has the ability to automatically adjust the pump power to start it at the lowest
possible speed, independently of the battery voltage and pump roughness. Also the user has
the possibility to adjust minimum pump power manually

BluFox

My Feedback: (10)

RCIS$FUN:

Hello from Germany and Jet Power 07. Knowing I would be here, I forwarded your email to Juan Ramon to respond to and send parts. Thanks for the compliments. . .it is simply what we do; take care of customers who own our turbines regardless of their purchase origin.

If you have our previous ECU (I.C.S.) it will have a group of wires exiting one end and ports on the other. If this is your ECU, it in fact cannot be programmed as the latest ECU can. If you have the newest unit "plug n play" after you turn on the airborne system, scroll up (menue up ) to the Start-info-run-transmitter screen. Then under Start, scroll up to gas adjust and increase the value to about 55 or 60. Then, adjust downward until you have consistant starts. This then is the optimum value. I will keep an eye on this thread and give you a shout when I return to the states on the 24th. Barring any unforseen flight delays, I will be home on time.

Int the mean time, try Coleman propane instead of Powermax. I use both and I as our service facility prefer the propane. I use the simle open and close valve as depicted in one of the pictures. Hold the can upside down, fill your purged gas system and when done, set the can on its bottom. Leave the valve open about 3/4 turn. Initiate start sequence. When the ECU indicates fuel ramp, close the valve on the propane cannister and disconnect.

Send me PM's with any concerns or simply email me at [email protected] . Again, welcome to our growing family.

Best regards,
Eric Clapp
Jet Central Artes Turbines
Lifetime Warranty

seanreit

My Feedback: (60)

Eric, package was delivered to your shop yesterday. Trust you're having fun!

RCISFUN

My Feedback: (44)

Hello Eric,
Thank for getting back to me from Germany.
I do have the previous ECU, will the com link to the PC work with that version?

Thanks again
Rich

RCISFUN

My Feedback: (44)

Hello Eric and Juan,
The overnight package was waiting for me when I came home for lunch today, talk about service


I just came in from connecting the new restrictor, what a difference, the Falcon starts with authority now, although I noticed I have to leave the propane connected due to the higher gas volume being used, the small canister doesn't have enough fuel to start on its own.

No problem with this procedure, I didn't want the on board tank anyhow.

I can not thank you enough for your fantastic customer support, Jet Central's newest number one fan

Rich Miller

RCISFUN

My Feedback: (44)

Oh I forgot to mention, I tried to blow air through the original restrictor, I could barely here the air coming out of the tube, I then blew air through the new one, I could here a big change in air volume.

I also tried starting with just a valve on the propane tank and using the regulator on the tank (reference causeitflies-RCU photos), with the valve only, the engine ramped up a bit faster to run state although the regulator did work.


Rich

avicom

My Feedback: (14)

Rich, glad to hear that your falcon still solid like the first day again. Felipe and his gang really throw the ball with their support and service. Thanks Eric, I still remember that call when you told me about the importance of the service at the time to buy a new engine. And you guys are great!!!

Alejandro