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12x vs. 11x

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Old 10-01-2010, 08:05 AM
  #1
RobT
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Default 12x vs. 11x



What does the 12 x have that the 11x does not?

Thanks,
Rob
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Old 10-01-2010, 08:15 AM
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Default RE: 12x vs. 11x

I guess I should add does the 11x have anything the 12x does not??
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Old 10-01-2010, 11:41 AM
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Default RE: 12x vs. 11x

12 channels, (it think) more mixes, a case not made of bozo-plastic, and an overall better build quality on the 12X. The 11X is cheaper, is a new look, and if you buy the international (and not Horizon bozo-ized) version, is modular and rearward compatible with older freqs, and potentially newer ones . . . . . and that seems to be about it, as I can see it. The 12X, at least to me, is still the better radio, but at a stiff co$t premium.

- Tim
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Old 10-01-2010, 11:55 AM
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Default RE: 12x vs. 11x


Quote:
ORIGINAL: RobT

What does the 12 x have that the 11x does not?

Thanks,
Rob
Which configuration, ACRO, GLID, or HELI, are you interested in. To cover all three will be to lengthy.

Allan
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Old 10-01-2010, 12:17 PM
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Default RE: 12x vs. 11x


If one doesn't need 12 channels, I see the 11X as clearly the best option for the vast majority of applications. With servo sync (which both radios have), one can handle a lot more than 11 servos on the 11X, with pretty much all the programming capabilities of the 12X. Moreover, the 11X has at least a couple of features that the 12X does not have. One is the ability to change from Function to System modes without having to turn off the transmitter. The other is the SD card-based system, which gives you virtually limitless model memory and easy firmware upgrades. I wouldn't be suprised if all high end transmitters eventually are based on portable non-volatile memory, like the 11X. The plastic case is indeed a downside of the 11X, but an eminently cosmetic one.
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Old 10-01-2010, 01:29 PM
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Default RE: 12x vs. 11x


[/quote]

Which configuration, ACRO, GLID, or HELI, are you interested in. To cover all three will be to lengthy.

Allan

[/quote]

I have had a 10X for about 10 years and fly primarily giant scale, however I am looking at playing with a heli hence the need for a new radio. (and yes, I have a full function sailplane it the hangar as well!)
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Old 10-01-2010, 02:41 PM
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Default RE: 12x vs. 11x

Take it from a heli pilot that is going into giant scale, and is looking into gliders (eventually). If you even have one heli in your fleet, you will want a heli radio to control it. If your intention is to have just one radio to control the entire fleet, then the heli radio is your best choice. Currently have an XP9303H and a 10X H to control all my helis and airplanes.

Rafael
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Old 10-01-2010, 03:03 PM
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Default RE: 12x vs. 11x



RobT,



Since you are a 10X user, the 12X will be familiar as it uses essentially the same magnesium case. The 11X plastic case is similar in construction to the one used on the 9303. IMHO, due to the modern styling, it has more of a plastic appearance than the 9303. It is better than the 9303 in that you can take the halves apart without removing the battery and without the sliders falling out. The 11X is physically larger than the 12X although it weighs less.



The 12X has four bearings on each stick while the 11X has two. As a practical matter, I can’t tell the difference. The 12X screen is physically smaller than the 11X but it is high resolution while the 11X is low. Almost all the menus can be seen on one 12X screen while the 11X uses multiple pages for many of its menus and lists. Whole 11X pages can be turned by a button. Partial pages you have to use the selector item-by-item. The 12X lists and menus are easier to navigate.



The 12X and 11X have the same number and function of switches and sliders. But, the 11X lacks the four knobs that are on the 12X. Although the 11X has one less channel than the 12X, it would appear that to use all the 11X channels independently, some of the switches and sliders will have to do double duty. The 11X and 12X come in only one version and that version is more heli oriented than plane. Both come with a smooth throttle drag. Although that can be modified.



The 11X does use a SD card. Upgrading the transmitter firmware simply requires you to download it from the web site onto the card. A 2GB card will give you a ridiculously large amount of storage space for extra models. The transmitter and SD memory is not seamless. You first have to load the models in the SD card into the transmitter memory. The 12X has to be sent to Horizon to be updated. To store more than 50 models on the 12X, you have to use the computer program and store them there. At present the 11X has no program to display the stored models on your computer.



If someone else doesn’t post, I’ll try to enumerate the ACRO programming differences tonight.



Allan

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Old 10-01-2010, 04:22 PM
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Default RE: 12x vs. 11x

Raf, I was thinking by the time I buy an 8x to (Sorry) "play" with Heli's I might be able to get an 11x and sell my ten for around the same $$.

Allan, Thanks, that is great info. Any idea how many bearings are on the 10x? I take the ratchet off my throttles anyway because I find when hovering (fixed wing) the clicks are always in the wrong spot. I would appreciate seeing the ACRo programing differences.

Channel wise for the fixed wing I am thinking 4 for ailerons, two for elevator, two for rudder, throttle, choke = 10 (What I am flying now). and as you said most of those are mixed and don't need a separate slider or switch.
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Old 10-01-2010, 05:56 PM
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Default RE: 12x vs. 11x

The 10X used no ball bearings yet was and IS known for its very smooth, and accurate sticks.

The 9303 series uses the 10X stick design.
The bearing areas (as the 10X stick assemblies are designed) are far too small to allow the consideration of ball bearings.
The 12X sticks have a different 'feel' entirely but the airborne results, IMO, are equal.
As always the guy ON the sticks is the real difference once we get into the better designs.

The first patent on ball bearings was in 1791. However, Leonardo da Vinci is credited with the principle while Roman Chariots dating to AD 40 contained them.

However, ball bearings seem to be selling quite well in 2010.

BTW ask a good machinist about ball bearings vs. good sleeve bearings . CNC changed everything.
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Old 10-02-2010, 12:46 PM
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Default RE: 12x vs. 11x

i have a question, can the 11x card be plugged into a pc to save all the programs in the same way the 12 x has the data transfer program
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Old 10-02-2010, 02:00 PM
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Default RE: 12x vs. 11x



There is no reason why you couldn't but you won't be able to a read or manipulate the data as the model file is in machine code. So far there is no program to interpet it. You won't run out of memory on even a 1GB card. The firmware update takes a little over 1MB and each model only about 10KB. I expect the updated firmware will over write the old.

Allan

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Old 10-02-2010, 04:00 PM
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Default RE: 12x vs. 11x



RobT,

My only familiarity with the 10X is reading its manual. Both the 11X and 12X have divided the menus into two lists that are similar to the manner that was used on the 9303. The System list contains the starting menus such as model select, memory reset, aircraft type, wing and tail configurations, etc. The 12X is very similar to the 9303 in that you had to know which menu to start with first. The 11X is more helpful in that it leads you by the hand in setting up the initial menus. If you are familiar with the setup procedure, the 11X helpfulness is condescending. The Function list contains most of the menus that you would have in the 10X



For the ACRO configuration, the 11X and 12X will support the same wing types. Both have NORMAL (which means the ailerons are controlled by one servo or independently by two), FLAPERON (dual, independent ailerons that have flaperon capability), DELTA, and 4-AILE (which allows the pairing of servos on the same aileron). Both transmitters will support either conventional or V-tail. Both transmitters allow the use of dual rudders, dual flaps, and dual engines without the need of using a program mix.



In ACRO, the 12X has up to five modes available, the 11X has only three. The flight modes on the 12X can be controlled by a stick position switch while the 11X can’t. The 12X has four stick positions switches while the 11X has only two. (This doesn’t put the 11X at that much of a disadvantage as both transmitters have intrinsic position switches built into some of their menus.) The 11X has greater control over the audio than the 12X. On the sound on the 12X can be either on or off. On the 11X you can adjust the presence and pitch for various functions. The 12X warning system for switches will only activate for certain switch positions and not others. The 11X can be activated for all positions of the switches.



The 12X allows longer model names than the 11X. Flight mode names are the same length for both. The 12X uses a graphic illustration to tell you where the switch is that you selected. The 11X lacks the graphic but lets you select a switch by toggling it. Neither gives you unlimited freedom in picking a switch but the 11X gives a bit more flexibility.



A number of people praised the 11X for allowing a person to go from the Function list to the System list without powering down the transmitter. I don’t find it is that big a deal. You have to turn off the RF with one of the buttons on the side of the screen in order to access certain System menus after leaving the Function list. On both of the transmitters, once you switch from the System list to the Function list, the RF comes on. If you don’t want to the RF on while programming the Function list, you have to plug a trainer cord into the DSC connector.



If anyone is interested in the differences and similarities in the Function list, let me know. This post is getting too long.



Allan

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Old 10-03-2010, 07:14 AM
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Default RE: 12x vs. 11x


Quote:
If anyone is interested in the differences and similarities in the Function list, let me know.
Allan, If you have the time please post the information. Thank You


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Old 10-06-2010, 08:23 AM
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Default RE: 12x vs. 11x

At this point, it´s better to stick with the 11X, software can be upgraded, and the radio programming works faster than the 12X, 11X sticks are smoother than the 12X (I own both)
The 12X can not be upgraded, next year I will miss that for sure. If not flying precision either one is good, but the 12X has 5FM against 3FM on the 11X.

The 11X is what the 12X should be in the beginning.
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Old 10-07-2010, 06:00 AM
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Default RE: 12x vs. 11x

Thank you all. I have made my decision... 11x
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Old 10-07-2010, 12:41 PM
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Default RE: 12x vs. 11x



Although RobT has made a decision, I’m posting this comparison of the ACRO mode function menus for the 11X and 12X as it may give other viewers an idea of the differences between the transmitters. It probably isn’t complete as I’m still exploring the 11X programming.



D/R & EXP



If flight modes are inhibited, both transmitters rate selection operate the same. The 11X has four groups of rates and the 12X has five. Each group defines the rates for the three axis and their curves. For both 11X and 12X, the first three groups of rates in the D/R & EXP menu set the rates for the rate switches. The extra groups are ignored.



If flight modes are activated, the 12X allows you to use either the rate switches in the same manner as when flight modes are inhibited. Or you can use the flight mode switch to choose the rates. When you choose one of the groups for a particular flight mode, the rates for all three axes are confined to the group chosen. The 11X will allow independent choice of either the SW or the rates in any of the four groups for each axis. I’m not sure what you do with this extra flexibility.



The 12X has an advantage over the 11X in the choice of curves. The 11X has only the normal expo curve found on the 9303. The 12X has eight curves: a normal expo, VTR50, VTR60, VTR70,



THRO CURVE



The 11X throttle curves have seven points and the 12X has eight. Otherwise, they are similar except for the SW SEL menu. Like on the WARNING MENU which I spoke of earlier, on the 11X you can choose either the pos0 or pos1 positions on the switches. On the 12X you can only select the pos1 position.



THRO TRIM



The 11X has this menu while the 12X doesn’t. It does two things by manipulating the throttle trim. For throttle cut, it lowers the set trim and for idle adjust it raises the trim. Both of these could easily be set up by using a program mix on the 12X.



FLAP SYSTEM



The 11X expands on the flap system menu used in the 12X and the 9303. The flap switch can control the aileron as well as the flap and elevator. And if not inhibited, the elevator and aileron trims for the three-position on the flap switch can be adjusted in flight.



PROGRAM MIX



As I understand the 10X include option, one channel can control successive layers of slave channels. This isn’t true for either the 11X or 12X. The master channel’s attributes are passed to the slave only in that mix. If the slave is used as a master in another mix, those attributes will not be passed on to the next slave.



The 11X has a total of six mixes, three normal and three either normal or curve. The 12X has eight mixes. Three are normal and the other five are normal or curve. Both transmitters allow the aileron, elevator, and rudder stick functions when used as the master channel to pass their trim and D/R & EXP to the slave channels. The 11X gives you the option deciding which, if not all, of these additional values will be passed through. The 11X will also allow the settings in the DIFFERENTIAL menu to be applied to the aileron and flaps (used as ailerons) when these two functions are slaves.



I noticed that the 12X has the capability for the gyro sensitivity channel output to be used as a slave in the program mix and the 11X doesn’t.



BALANCE



With the FLAPERON wing type both the 11X and 12X balance allows you to match the right aileron deflection to the left. The 12X has seven points of adjustments and the 11X has five. The 11X has graphics showing the adjustments while the 12X doesn’t.



With the 4-AILE wing, both transmitters allow you to balance the ganged servos on each aileron to reduce binding. In addition the 11X lets you match the right aileron deflection to the left as done on the flaperon wing. The 12X doesn’t.



TIMER



The 11X has three timers and the 12x has two. The timers can be either stop watch or count-down. The 12X gives greater control over the interval when the count-down beeps occurs and when the final count down starts. The 11X count-down beeps occur every minute until the one minute mark. Then it beeps every 10 seconds until the 10 second mark when it starts beeping every second.



In the 12X stop watch mode, the interval between beeps is user selectable. The 11X beeps are fixed at every minute.

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Old 10-07-2010, 05:57 PM
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Default RE: 12x vs. 11x

good info, thanks, however i will make a comment. first i,m robs dad and i own a 12x, so there will be fun compairing the two side by side at the field. however my 12x has a throttle trim menu located within program 83 trim system
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Old 10-07-2010, 06:35 PM
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Default RE: 12x vs. 11x


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Bobt2

, , , however my 12x has a throttle trim menu located within program 83 trim system
The 11X has a TRIM SYSTEM menu in the function list which controls the throttle trim same as the trim in the 12X menu 83. In additon the 11X has a THRO TRIM menu that I was speaking of.

If I were to duplicate the 11xmenu on a 12X, I would use two separate program mixes that mix THRO -> THRO in POS0. One mix adds and the other subtacts.The THRO STICK INH would be set to 50 or less.

Of course many people using the 12X and other JR transmitters with an analog trim would just adjust the the throttle trim lever. On the 11X, the throttle trim detent is very light. You may not want to move it once you have your idle set.

Allan
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Old 10-07-2010, 07:36 PM
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Default RE: 12x vs. 11x

interesting, thanks.all my helis are electric, so i never touch the trim. and on the planks i pull the trim all the way down for landing.
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Old 10-30-2010, 04:53 PM
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Default RE: 12x vs. 11x

Loving my 11 x so far thank you all...

Has anyone used an 11x and a 12x in a "buddy box" setup? Any issues I should be aware of?

Rob
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Old 10-30-2010, 08:40 PM
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Default RE: 12x vs. 11x



Since the two transmitters differ, the program trainer and not the normal trainer mode should be used on the master transmitter. I haven’t tried using the normal trainer mode on the master. You might make it work. I figure if the student can be handle more than the basic, aileron, elevator, rudder, and engine, then he shouldn’t need a buddy box arrangement in the first place.



When the 11X is used as the master, be certain you have selected a trainer switch in the trainer menu. The 11X default has the trainer function deactivated. Whichever one is the master, don’t plug the DSC cord into it until you have powered the R/F up. Neither one wants to act as a master if you plug in the DSC cord before powering up. Other than that, I’ve used each as a master and the other as the slave with no problems.



Allan

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Old 11-01-2010, 12:24 PM
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Default RE: 12x vs. 11x

Allan.
I have a JR12X. For the last 3 years I am using it with EDF, Helis and gliders. It works fine. Never had any problems.
BUT, for a long time I am trying to find any information concerning new firware updates available to my 12X.
If you take a deep search in Horizon web site, there isn´t any information about this subject.
I know there are some minor bugs that were correct with new firmwares, BUT Horizon don´t inform you about then.
In my country, JR Distributor don´t have any information about this.
How can I know wich firmware version I have in my 12X and how to find information about new updates!
It´s amazing how you find this information in Aurora 9, Spektrum DX8, but 12X no way!!
Thanks any information.
Henrique Lang
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Old 11-01-2010, 01:20 PM
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Default RE: 12x vs. 11x



In the past month, I contacted Horizon asking about updating the 12X. I was told there hasn’t been any since the ones that came out shortly after the transmitter was put on the market and there were none in the works. So the only two updates that I am aware of is the addition of the momentary function to the eyebrow switches and correcting the 4-aileron balance so that it allows the balancing of ganged servos on both the left and right wings not just one wing alone.



The momentary upgrade is easy to determine. Go to menu [83. Trim System]. If there is a MOMENT column on the right side of the screen for the FLAP TRIM and AUX TRIM, it has the upgrade. The [33. Balance] menu should have a RAIL1 and a LAIL1 column when the 4-AILE wing type is selected. I believe it was originally RAIL1 and RAIL2.



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Old 11-01-2010, 06:40 PM
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Default RE: 12x vs. 11x

Thanks Allen. I will have to give it a try.
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