smartman300

My Feedback: (4)

Frankly I'm afraid of JR radio equipment now, it's happened on 4 separate occations with the same channel, 53. Here;'s the story:

1. Around our field WITHIN 2 MILES, we have a CB shop that has a HUGE antenna pumping loads of wattage (my guess, I'm not sure how much)

2. We have high voltage power lines within a mile

3. He have TV stations with their antennas up

4. Probably numerous radio stations pumping wattage into the air.

We had an AMA certified frequency scanner out and showed no problems with ch 53.

My plane wants to dip and twitch like it was getting hits up in the air at a certain corner on our field. No cell phones were on and no one else was on my channel. For that matter, no one else was up in the air. It was not my flying because we have one of the best pilots flying my plane and it flew excellent except for in just that corner. The radio was definately in range, too. I range checked it and it checked at 80 paces (I'm 6' 0" so my paces aren't short by any means) with antenna collapsed, so there's no problem there.

I am using a JR XP8103 with an R600 on ch. 53 The antenna was routed outside the plane and the radio is brand new, not 2 weeks old. The R600 was sent in for a checkup off of another plane and passed with flying colors. The problem surely cann't be with the Tx, I had another 421ex that had the sam problem.

I flew futaba and they work EXCELLENT. I like JR though. Can you please help me?


Thank you so much for your help,
Brian

dsnyder

There are a few possibilities that could be happening there. One is perhaps there is intermittent noise on 53. This could be noise that is just not happening while using the scanner. If this was the case, it would be best to avoid channel 53. Other possibilities include model generated RF. Perhaps there is some noise generated in the model through vibration of metal pull pull cables, any metal to metal contact, or noise generated by the engine etc. This could also be a bad servo, bad extension, bad switch etc though since it is range testing fine, this is likely not the case, but still would be possible. It would also be possible that the receiver does have a problem that is not showing up in the range test nor did it show up when being checked out. This would be a slim possibility however. If you can, try another receiver in the model and see if it cures the problem. If it does, the receiver may be to blame. It could also be equipment location in the plane, and how the wires and extensions are routed. One thing that may help work through the problem is to install an RF filter on the throttle servo and the lead from the switch to the receiver. These are part numbers JRPA028 for a snap together style and JRPA029 for a ring style. With these filters you simply wrap the wire through them 3 times or so and they will help reduce the noise that is passed to the receiver through the leads. Also feel free to send in your equipment for a check up to be sure it is not to blame. If you have any further questions please feel free to contact one of our product support techs at 877-504-0233.

smartman300

My Feedback: (4)

I can't possibly see how model generated Rf can be a problem, although it may seem like the likely source. I tell you what Danny, I had a plan in mind. I'm going to go early to the field when no one is up and about and I'm going to take the model all the way out there in that corner of the field. I'll anchor the model and go back to the flightline. I'll use my camcorder with the zoom all the way up and I'll record if it has any abnormal control problems. Then I'll do the same with the engine on. I'll keep the test running 5 minutes so the intermittent noise has a chance to come up.

What do you think of a test like this? before, we had a person at the flightline look at the plane there, and I go out into the field with the Tx, but I thought to myself that that may give a false range check because we have metal fences, and I learned through JR that those fences re-radiate the signal.

Hopefully something goes wrong in my range test so I'll find an easy way to correct it, like a new Rx. That R600 is outdated anyway

Thank you so much for your response, hope to get a reply,
Brian

dsnyder

That test would be very good to do! Chain link fences that are not properly grounded can re-radiate the signal and can cause problems. Also if there is any ungrounded metal in an ashpault/concrete runway that can also cause problems. Let us know what you find.

smartman300

My Feedback: (4)

I'm starting to think about this interference. Can it be possible that the interference is only in a certain corner of the field? Also, for the test I had planned, does it matter if I use a couple tent stakes to anchor the rope around the model during the engine on test? Can you think of anything that won't radiate the signal as much, possibly causing a mis-read?

I really appreciate your help, you're the best!!

Thanks,
brian

dsnyder

It would be very odd that it would be in just one area, but it is possible. A couple of times I have heard of people having problems in one area around a field and they found some metal that was buried in the ground in that same area. Otherwise it is just an odd combination of little things that is causing a problem in one area of the field.

Use as little metal as possible for the restraint to limit the amount of re-radiation of the signal. If you can find any plastic stakes that are strong enough to hold the model your results may be more accurate. Here is a good article on range testing. http://horizon.hobbyshopnow.com/articles/1079.asp?pg=1 It is written for PCM testing, however many of the same rules will apply.

smartman300

My Feedback: (4)

Couldn't test it with power, but without power the model is just fine. It is a .60 size chipmunk. Someone at our field showed me that the 8103 Tx can switch over to PCM, so I was thinking of buying a 770 PCM Rx (only $100). I have this pcm Rx planned for a H9 CAP 232 73" wingspan model with a saito 1.50. Do you think the switch over to PCM would be worthwhile? or should I just change crystals to another channel?

dsnyder

Switching to PCM may fix the problem for you. However if there is noise on that channel and is sufficient enough, you may still have problems with PCM. If the problem is caused by noise on that channel, the best solution is to avoid the channel. But if the problem is not noise on that channel, PCM may help. Another thing that may help is installing RF filters, part number JRPA028 for a snap together style and JRPA029, on to your throttle servo lead and maybe the switch lead to the receiver. These filters you wrap and extension through them around 3 times and it reduces the noise from the lead to the receiver.

smartman300

My Feedback: (4)

Oh by the way, I tried the same test with the Tx off, and there was no jttering whatsoever. Reasonable deduction would conclude that if there was interference and the Tx was off, the interference would preside. What do you think? Is that the case, or am I wrong on something? I really hate to drag this on, bt I need to know about this stuff before I test my new 1/4 scale CAP.

Oh yeah, one thing I left out, the pres. of our club has the freq. scanner out and picked up absolutely nothing on channels 30 all the way up.

Thank you so much fo your help,
Brian

dsnyder

The TX off test doesn't really prove much I'm sorry to say. Noise could still be present. Just as a side note, it is not recommended to have the receiver powered up with the TX off as it can damage servos or your plane if the servos overdrive themselves. Also keep in mind that the problem could still be noise from the engine or a certain vibration in the air that is causing the problem.

smartman300

My Feedback: (4)

Danny, just got an update!!!! I went to the field last week and flew my 1/4 scale CAP 232 with an expert RF600 in it. Flew fine, no hits whatsoever.


Now just yesterday, I took my chipmunk (the one with the JR R600) and took it off and got mad hits out near the power lines. I managed to get it down dead stick. Upon closer inspection at the landing site (near a metal fence), with the antenna down at 10 paces the things was shaking like mad. I couldn't believe what horrible range it got. I heard about the fence re-raditating the signal, but what just happened to me, was the fence a bad thing??

dsnyder

It may be a fence related issue or a noise issue. Ungrounded chain link fences (or poorly grounded) can 'bounce' signals and re-radiate signals enough to cause hits. Other metal fences could also cause problems under the right, or should I say wrong, conditions. It also may easily be a power line problem, as they can radiate RF in all bands and cause numerous problems. It sounds like stepping up from the R600 receiver may be a solution.

smartman300

My Feedback: (4)

I took the CAP up on Saturday, and in a certian spot of our field, it suddenly acted like it went over a speed bump and fell over. I got another hit on the turn to final, just a foot off the ground, I got another hit and nosed the airplane in.

Now all my airplanes are grounded. The 2 days I was out flying, every single time I went up I got hit BAD. Many others using JR at our field were getting hits. It's funny, all those who were hit were using JR, I'm startng to get worried.

If I can't find a resonable explaination to this, I'm sorry to say, I'm going to abandon JR. I am frankly getting tired of this. I was talking to a person at our field that made the point that the JR recievers are all single conversion, except for the very expensive PCM type with dual conversion. Can this make a difference? I heard of others using hitec Rx's on JR with no problem, and all them happen to have dual conversion.

In conclusion, I have 2 different planes, 2 different receivers, and both were getting hit BAD. All ranged fine (in fact, the same day my CAP 232 took hits, it range checked out at 80 paces, or until I couldn't see the control surface!). I am fishing for possible culprits, and I'm starting to run out, as is my favor of JR equipment over other brands. Please draw me back, Danny, or you may see another customer go.

bentgear

smartman. the best thing you can do is swap brands. Then when you have your next problem you can swap again, then again, then again, oops running out of major brands. S%^& they must all be bad.
Ed M.

smartman300

My Feedback: (4)

Sorry about being mad or angry, that wasn't my intention. I would please like to stay up in the air and not be worried about my equipment, because I think JR is the best. When I start having a string of problems, I now am getting tired of dealing with them, especially the fact that it happened to 2 diferent radios before, with no interference on my channel. Please help me JR

dsnyder

That is correct that most JR receivers are single conversion, however the ABC&W system makes them work as well or better than other brands dual conversion systems. The 945 receiver is dual conversion ABC&W, and in certain applications and certain areas will work better than single conversion. Unfortunetely without knowing what the exact problem is, I can't help out much further. Have you tried changing channels, different receivers, etc? I know I have flown at one of the fields in the Rockford area, not sure if it is the field you fly at or not, and never had any problems, though that would have been I think the year before last since I was there last.

smartman300

My Feedback: (4)

I'm sorry, but I officially switched to Futaba. I just couldn't trust JR equipment; every JR radio I had has caused hits at our field. I took the advise of many experienced pilots and switched to Futaba. I'm sorry Danny, but your company has just lost another customer..................

dsnyder

I'm sorry to hear that, I think you are giving up on an excellent brand and some excellent equipment. The problem has to be some bizarre combination of factors that is causing problems that changing brands will either not correct, or if it does, was the result of some other change in the combination. Take it from another experienced pilot.....stay with JR! Seriously though, I wish you the best of luck.

smartman300

My Feedback: (4)

Thank you, I really appreciate it. Although I have made the switch, I still believe that Horizon is the best company, by far, in the business. You have the best customer support and the nicest people out there. I switch to Futaba, but I still use all your servos, extensions, and accessories available. I will still keep the "Team JR" Stickers on my CAP 232, because I believe in your company.

From a business point of view, what you are doing is excellent. You are making a product that competes at a really low price. But you have to take a time out and figure, "what's first, quality or money" JR has to take a look at it's configuration of it's filters and it's output transistors. These are very common in JR Transmitters, and often crack without the modeler even noticing! Try and switch manufacturers, or try a different configration of these high risk components. Take a look at your IC (integrated circuit) production and make sure it is up to industry standards. A major renovation of your recievers has to take place. These single conversion recievers are not cutting it for most folks. Ask any modeler flying JR at any field and ask him/her if they were ever "hit", even once. Chances are they will say yes on occasion. There should be NO HITS whatsovever from your product. Remember, the radio system is life support for a plane, it needs to function flawlessly EVERY TIME. Perhaps you can try a dual conversion PPM reciever at your test field and observe the results (I know you have hot spots of interference at your R&D field, too. They told me so on the phone!!!). On numerous occasions, there have been modelers getting hits on their JR components, only to find that switching to hitec dual conversion recievers solved the problem instantly.

I know we have separated paths now, but I WILL take another look at your product in the future. If JR has shaped up their atttude, they get my $$

dsnyder

That is simply not true! JR filters, components, and assembly are as good or better than any others in the business! JR makes very high quality equipment, and THOUSANDS across the country would agree! If there was truly a problem with JR receivers, no one would fly them. Fact is, any brand can get hits at any time. I have heard of several fields across the country however that JR works better than any other brand. As I stated earlier, JR uses their ABC&W system in place of dual conversion. The ABC&W system filters the signal further than other systems and works better. I agree that in a perfect world there would be no hits. But that perfect world doesn't exist, too many factors go in to it that are out of our control, including noise in your area and your model set up. Keep in mind that noise in your area affecting your channel involves more than just the frequency listed on it, but the mirror image frequency as well. And a dual conversions receiver mirror image frequency is different than a single conversion receiver. This is likely the difference as to why going to dual conversion helps in your case. Other times if there is noise on the mirror image frequency of the dual conversion, moving to single conversion will solve it. We carry a dual conversion receiver from JR, the 945, and a dual conversion receiver from GWS, the 8 channel FM receiver.

foxx

My Feedback: (2)

Smartman'
I have been following this thread for a while with great interest. In our field we have problem with channel 42 aileron only and that is for everybody using FM receivers regardless of brand.and interesting enough it is very localized such as is in your case The newcomers always think their servo is acting up but it is really a noise problem. I switched to S649 PCM receivers and everthing is ok now . For other guys who are thinking to follow you path I would suggest to try other options such as a different frequency first before giving up on a fine piece of equipment such as JR . BTW you never mentioned how does your experiment with Futaba is going

smartman300

My Feedback: (4)

I am awaiting the Futaba 9C to come in, it wasn't in my channel. Danny, there are numerous engineers in the industry, not employed by JR, that can argue my point. However, rest assured that because one modeler defected, not everyone will follow. I have an opinion of your product that can't be changed unless JR takes steps in the right direction to go above and beyond what modelers such as myself expect. how about a low cost dual conversion FM reciever? I can't spend $210 on each receiver for my models. You keep the costs down during production anyway, so why not pass that along to the modeler. I bet THAT would substantially boost your market share and get more prople involved with your company during the long run. and THAT would make all the difference.

dsnyder

We do not need dual conversion, as the ABC&W system works much in the same way and in many cases better than dual conversion. As I stated, GWS has an FM dual conversion receiver available that will work great with JR. Saying that JR uses lesser quality components and manufacturing is simply not true. JR has a 3 year warranty for a reason, the longest warranty in the industry, we believe that it will not be needed!

smartman300

My Feedback: (4)

I don't mean to offend, but good radios don't need a warranty.

Look: I still very much like JR products, and will continue to use them, except for radio or flight critical components. I still love your servos and extensions, as well as your other parts. They are far and away the best quality of all companies. Just because I got rid of a JR Tx doesn't mean I'm jumping off the bandwagon.

I have another question for you hotshot: Why does every other manufacturer follow industry standards of signal generation, transmission, and receiving, while Jr is the only one that doesn't? Is this better than the other brands, and lastly why do you do it? do you believe your form is better because it's the opposite of what others are doing?

Surfer Dude

You know you need to stop knocking Danny you've stated that you switched so leave him alone and when you learn how to fly come back and argue with him.
Chris Gini