Jetdesign

My Feedback: (8)

I can't believe a search turned up nothing on this - I thought it would be a major enough topic for a sticky.

So what is the deal? Is JR going to stay with both technologies, or move away from one? Why the switch? Compatibility? Is JR moving away from Spektrum?

I was gearing up to invest in a JR radio (probably the 9503) but need to understand this first.

Thanks.

BuschBarber

My Feedback: (2)

I am not an expert on this but I have two JR XP9303 transmitters, with DSM2 modules, and a DX8 with DSMX. JR has developed radios, with DMSS, so that they may be used throughout the world. DSMX has power requirements that make it not suitable in some countries. JR's DMSS radios do not support DSM2/DSMX. I do not know what they have planned beyond the XG11.

Norseman

The module based radios JR makes will do any protocol or technology, even if you won't get telemetry on all of them if you use a DMSS module.
I have a 11X-Zero, and I have the following modules for it. 35MHz, DSMJ, DSM2, DMSS. It will even give me telemetry when used with the DMSS module. My 9XII radio is able to use the DMSS module when set to PPM modulation, but will not be able to use the telemetry function.



Steinar

BuschBarber

My Feedback: (2)

Spektrum won't or can't offer a DSMX module.

AndyKunz

Incorrect. DSMX radios are available in both EU and US modes.

We don't offer EU-power JR DSMX radios because we don't sell JR in Europe. Another company distributes JR over there.

Andy

BuschBarber

My Feedback: (2)

Sorry, my mistake.

Red Baron Gary

My Feedback: (59)

I'm sticking with Spektrum, period. Bulletproof, top notch customer service.
Spektrum folks stand *very* close to theriu products.Not like some importers who "once you buy it you own it" sort of thing.
Gary

kp2365

The answer is Yes! JR PROPO is going their own way and moving away from the Spektrum 2.4 RF

If you are looking into the future it's just DMSS for JR..

Why? That's up to speculation and nobody in the Know will give that info out since in the US Horizon hobbies is the distributor of JR and also of their own spektrum brand radios.

If you want to stay with JR, DMSS is the only choice. Look at the XG series of radios for the future if you want JR.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JzVZO2qH6E[/youtube]

kp2365

Zeeb

My Feedback: (41)

Doesn't make any difference to me anymore if JR continues to make DSM2/DSMX type radios as they've pretty much fallen out of bed on keeping up with Futaba and even Spektrum on programming capabilities.

While my JR 12X was among the first batch that Horizon received and I've enjoyed using it, it's getting long in the tooth and has been moved to backup radio status behind my new Spektrum DX18 which continues to amaze me with the things it can do and I've only scratched the surface....

I continue to believe that it's a mistake on JR's part to assume that all of us with DSM2/DSMX equiptment are going to dump it in favor of their 2.4GHz RF protocol let alone the inability to play with all the nifty BNF toys that are coming out of Horizon.

Pippin

I don think JR is behind this idea. Looks rather like Horizon's idea...

Growler84

My Feedback: (8)

I've stocked up on DSM2/DSMX receivers to support my very-expensive-soon-to-age-out 12X. Once this equipment ages out I'll consider the slap in the face from Horizon/JR over and move to Futaba.

AWorrest

My Feedback: (5)

If no more than twelve channels are needed, the 12X would be on top of the heap if they upgraded its programming to the 11X version 2 level while retaining its present refinements. DMSS and DMSX are similar. I wouldn’t be surprised that in the future JR and Horizon will find a way to make their products work with the other.

Allan

warbird_1

My Feedback: (61)

my question is weather a simple module upgrade to my 12x will bring it to dmss . i wish JR would make up their mind . this makes like the fourth time they have changed formats. i don't want to go spectrum as i still think JR makes a better product. no other radio that i know of has an aluminum frame . it's hard to pay 800.00 plus for a plastic radio . just opinion

luv2flyrc

My Feedback: (6)

If you have a JR 12xMV (module version), then yes, you can buy the new DMSS module and run DMSS in your 12xMV. Be aware that you will only have 8 channels though, NOT 12, as the dmss module uses the 12xMV's PPM protocol to communicate between transmitter & module and there are only 8 channels on a 12xMV in PPM mode.

You cannot upgrade the standard 12x to DMSS.

Mike

BuschBarber

My Feedback: (2)

I have the JR XP9303 with a Spektrum module. I have read that it will accept the DMSS module. I have 9 channels with the Spektrum DM9 module.

luv2flyrc

My Feedback: (6)

That's because your xp9303 has 9 PPM channels. 12xMV only has 8

IMO, a vastly superior choice would be to run a Weatronic module in it. Then you would have 12 channels in your 9303 and the best RF link to boot

Mike

BuschBarber

My Feedback: (2)

I understand that. This is why I sold my Futaba 9CAP and bought the 9303. The 9th channel on the 9CAP was also not Proportional and just an On/Off switch. All 9 channels on the 9303 are Proportional in both PPM, PCM, and Spektrum 2.4.

warbird_1

My Feedback: (61)

i have to disagree with the module part . the 11x has the same removable module as my 12x however it there's a procedure you have to use to remove it. i talked to jr about this when the dsmx came out. The module doesn't just pull out like on a ppm version , but it is removable. i was going to send them just my modules to upgrade , but seeing how i don't fly at huge events , there was no need to upgrade. my 12 in not the MV version

luv2flyrc

My Feedback: (6)

The standard (dedicated) 12X is not upgradable to DMSS. Not sure what you disagree with, only the 12xMV has a removable module. Yes, there is a "fixed" module plug in the dedicated 12x that I suppose could be removed by disassembly but, even if you did that, the transmitter does not have the firmware to run PPM mode necessary for the DMSS module. The 12xMV has the necessary firmware. The firmware in the 12X and 12xMV is NOT the same, not sure if you realize that?

Mike

warbird_1

My Feedback: (61)

ok.. i was referring to the module only. i didn't realize the firmware issue . My understanding from what i learned from jr was that the 11/12x could be converted to DSMX simply by removing the Module parts from the back of the transmitter and either having them upgrade or replaced with the DSMX parts. i assumed that the DMSS system would work the same. Here's a pdf file showing how to remove the module components.

AA5BY

The BNF toys are likely a big player in Horizon's market and undoubtedly why Horizon drug their heels in offering JR DMSS (I hope that is a fair characterization).

No doubt that JR lost traction in the US market that they may never reclaim. I recently bought DMSS but it is my first 2.4 system (so no 2.4 receivers to abandon) and I don't do BNF. I see my situation as a rarity.

I doubt JR assumes there will be widespread abandoning of Spectrum in trade for JR.

You did open the door for a comment on the Horizon BNF and I'll comment on the park flyer versions. Most fly quite well and I've seen many guys at our field have a lot of fun with them, even though they tend to be short lived. I'll walk out on the limb and start sawing with a prediction that BNF park fliers might be a novelty that doesn't hang around long and do so based on a possible diminishing interest in them at our field.

Zeeb

My Feedback: (41)

Not the case at our field. Those little foam puppies are proliferating like weeds in the summer.... lol

The guys who started with them are either continuing with that size or in most cases going bigger and it's continually bringing in new folks.

I admit that I "poo poo'd" the idea when Horizon came out with I think it was a little Sukhoi? Which didn't fly very well and "Park Flyer" radio systems but those guys have flipped the modeling world on it's head in a lot of respects which I think are great for our hobby by generating more interest and more participants due to the inexpensive nature of getting started now.

What REALLY fascinates me is the guys with spendy 2M pattern stuff or GS IMAC birds showing up with all these little UMX size models both fixed wing and heli's. Those things are just a hoot to play with....

warbird_1

My Feedback: (61)

All good points ,but you'd be hard pressed to find anyone in the park flyer community spending 1,200 bucks on a radio for use mostly with park flyers. for guys like me who like to build and build big stuff ,it kinda ticks me off. it's almost like computers. i build ,service and play on them. you can't tell me that the PC manufactures don't have the means to produce a short series of processors vs. coming out with a new speed or more cores evey week. it's all money. IMO builders got them to the point they are at now . We helped build those companies by keeping the hobby viable . now that the easy money is here ,"We" builders get thrown under the bus in the name of progress. What i mean is they are now catering to electrics,parkflyers etc. though both have the right to be there to ,they force the rest of us to comply . i hope that makes sense . in short .. hardley anyone builds anymore because ARF's have made most lazy .

Len Todd

Not hardly!

I started with Micro BNF planes, Then I moved into Micro BNF Helis. Then I got into BNF 450 Helis. Then I came back to Parkflyer BNF planes. Then, I built two Giant ARFs. Last year, I essentially spent all my time "building," repairing and learning how to fly all of these. I am a member of five clubs and fly with most of them weekly, during flying season. When I am not with a club, I have been out at our airport flying by myself. I have even been out there in 20+mph winds and snow coming down horizontally. With only one year, I consider myself a rookie. But, I have a solid year of experience flying and unfortunately repairing a few of the above aircraft. Given this year's experience, the fact that I am the lead organizer for a three-day air show/fun-fly event (www.wmrce.com), established a new AMA Club (AMA #5117), obtained a legal agreement for our flying field, currently organizing and planning to build that field and I am the Village's chairperson for two of the four Village committees I sit on, this BNF/ARF builder hardly feels lazy!

Also, to be frank about your "lazy" satement, it is the attitude that some kit builders express about kit and scratch building being "the only way to go," and how they imply that they are holier than thou, etc. etc. for being "a builder" that drives newcomers away from the hobby! That B.S. Kit Builder's attitude is one of the reasons that initially kept me from doing a kit. But, it is not the only reason. I can pull my BNFs out of the box and be flying in < 5 minutes. Also, I hate frogging around with temperamental engines. I go to the field to fly, not troubleshoot an engine. I do not have the time nor patience to kit or scratch build. The ARFs take me to my personal outer limits. But it is the "attitude" in question that really turns me off. ( Disclaimer: By the way, not all kit/scratch builders are this way.)

Essentially these guys with the holier than thou kit builder attitudes push away newcomers who are willing to try something new, but not willing to put up with the scrooges of the hobby! Nothing personal about this. This is just what I have seen out there this year, and how I, among other newcomers, react to that B.S. when we see/hear it. In my case, I usually just consider the source. In the case of younger people, they typically stay away from the source (i.e. not become club members, etc.).

I saw the same B.S. happen to the Amateur Radio community years ago. All the “ real Hams” hated that hobby's "Black Rice Boxes", which replaced kit and scratch radio building. They "put down" the hams that bought and used them! But, those Black Rice Boxes are still here and most hams are using them. So are our ARFs and BNF Parkflyers. When you only have a few minutes to fly, all one has to do is pull out a plane, plug in the battery and fly. And for BNF, you do not have to use a cheesy Transmitter.Also, you are not going to lose a flying field over the “obnoxious buzz” of nitro engines, etc. Do not get me wrong here. I like the sound of a good throaty engine. But there is a place for everything, and some fields (e.g. close to homes, etc.) are better off w/o nitros.

Also, (kind of back to the topic) I can't figure out what a >$1K JR would give me, that I would use, that my <$400 DX8s won't. And given the other junk I have tried to fly with, Spektrum has IMHO the best technology and support out there. And then, ... the JR owners are plugging in modules to get DSMX or some form of it? Why not just get the Spektrum Transmitter and be done with it? I'd bet you could save a lot of frustration and $s! Probably would wind up with something more reliable too! Also, as I heard one of my Futa.. loyal friends last week say, "Looks like I am going to have to get a Spektrum transmitter just so I can get some of the neater BNF planes." He also flies micros, parkflyers and giants.

Sometimes when flying giants at the field, I pull out a micro or parkflyer, when the winds die down, and fly it with just as much pride. Many times, that has been when the open minded guys come over and start asking the rookie questions about electrics and parkfliers' fight characteristics. If you really want to blow their hair back, you eventually talk about Spektrum's Flight Logging and Telemetry, etc.Next thing you know, the club has another new Spektrum user!

So much for the rant. This particular attitude thing was a topic at one of the meetings I was at today. So I put the cards on the table. Sorry. But if you don't like seeing this, maybe I am writing about you.??And, ... at least this "lazy" person took the time to hopefully fully explain another viewpoint about ARFs and BNF.<o></o>