JR XG11 Stick Position Switch Function
04-29-2014, 01:39 PM
#1
Thread Starter
JR XG11 Stick Position Switch Function
Hi, I'm trying to use the Stick Position Switch function and finding it impossible to understand the manual. I want to use full rudder deflection to switch to high rates on my ailerons for snap roll. Can anyone help out with instructions on how to do this? Thanks.
05-01-2014, 05:13 PM
#2
My Feedback: (5)
Setting up a stick position switch that doesn’t duplicate one of the manual’s examples is a difficult XG11 programming task. At least it was for me. The best way to understand it is to experiment with various setups.
All the stick position switches are the same and you can place any or all on the throttle, aileron, elevator or rudder stick. Say you pick SPS0 and replaced INH with RUDD. A menu will appear behind the pull down menu and become permanent if you select any option but INH. The subsequent menu has three lines and one bar chart.
The first line is informational. There is nothing you can adjust on it. As you move the rudder stick from one side to the other, the line will indicate whether the switch is on or off.
The next line down is labeled L:. On this line you establish the switch states boundaries of ON, OFF or Hysteresis when the switch is left of center. The numbers represent the distance from the center (0) to the hard over left position (100). The order that the numbers are entered makes no difference. The sequence of 20, 70 is the same as 70, 20. Or INH, 57 is the same as 57, INH.
The next line down is for establishing the switch regions when the rudder stick is right of center. Except for covering the right half of the rudder stick travel, it is the same as described above.
The last line is a bar chart. The switch states at the center and both ends can be changed by selecting it and pressing the roller selector. An ON state will change to OFF and the OFF state will change to ON. On the bottom of the bar chart is a marker showing the stick position.
The bar chart designators at the center and ends determine what the L: and R: boundaries do. If the center and end are different states, one entry and one INH, will establish the boundary between the center region and the end region. Two entries establish a hysteresis zone between the center region and the end region. To see the hysteresis, you may have to lower your screen contrast. I’ve set mine to -15.
If the center and end designator are the same, two entries will establish a box zone of the opposite switch state from the center and end state. The outcome for one entry will depend on what is done on the other side of center. It may do nothing.
For what you want, first verify the states on the bar chart reads: ON, OFF, ON. That indicates the switch will be OFF while the rudder stick is neutral but ON when the stick is hard over. If at this point you move the rudder stick, there will be no change in the information line. This is because no boundary has been established between the ON and OFF regions.
So for the switch to work, enter one number in the L: line and one number in the R: line if you wish for the switch to change states on both sides of neutral. If you want the switch to work on one side only, enter a number on that side and leave the other line as INH, INH. The switch will work for an entry as large as 100 but I would recommend you use something slightly less should the gimbal has some mechanical problems or the sticks aren't calibrated.
Now move the rudder stick left and right to verify that the top line changes as you expect. This concludes the programming of the rudder stick position switch. The first attached photo shows the stick poisiton switch’s settings.
Next the aileron rates will be set. If you have already set up aileron rates for the snap, use it. For illustration purposes, I’m going say the aileron P3 rates are the extra high rate set.
On page 3 of the D/R menu under the SW-AUTO column, pick a line, for instance the first one. Open the SWSEL1 menu by selecting it and pressing the roller selector. SPS0 should be available for selection. Set it ON. Next change P0 in the first line to P3. Now push the rudder stick hard over. The switch state at the end of the line will change from OFF to ON.
When you look at the MONITOR, you will see the aileron rates changes to the higher P3 set when the rudder stick is held hard over. The SW-AUTO switch rates takes precedence over rates selected by the normal rate switches and those selected by flight modes. SWSEL1 has precedence over the other SW-AUTO switches.
The next two photos show page 3 of the D/R & EXP menu where the SW-AUTO is set up and the selection menu where SPS0 is checked to turn on P3.
Allan
All the stick position switches are the same and you can place any or all on the throttle, aileron, elevator or rudder stick. Say you pick SPS0 and replaced INH with RUDD. A menu will appear behind the pull down menu and become permanent if you select any option but INH. The subsequent menu has three lines and one bar chart.
The first line is informational. There is nothing you can adjust on it. As you move the rudder stick from one side to the other, the line will indicate whether the switch is on or off.
The next line down is labeled L:. On this line you establish the switch states boundaries of ON, OFF or Hysteresis when the switch is left of center. The numbers represent the distance from the center (0) to the hard over left position (100). The order that the numbers are entered makes no difference. The sequence of 20, 70 is the same as 70, 20. Or INH, 57 is the same as 57, INH.
The next line down is for establishing the switch regions when the rudder stick is right of center. Except for covering the right half of the rudder stick travel, it is the same as described above.
The last line is a bar chart. The switch states at the center and both ends can be changed by selecting it and pressing the roller selector. An ON state will change to OFF and the OFF state will change to ON. On the bottom of the bar chart is a marker showing the stick position.
The bar chart designators at the center and ends determine what the L: and R: boundaries do. If the center and end are different states, one entry and one INH, will establish the boundary between the center region and the end region. Two entries establish a hysteresis zone between the center region and the end region. To see the hysteresis, you may have to lower your screen contrast. I’ve set mine to -15.
If the center and end designator are the same, two entries will establish a box zone of the opposite switch state from the center and end state. The outcome for one entry will depend on what is done on the other side of center. It may do nothing.
For what you want, first verify the states on the bar chart reads: ON, OFF, ON. That indicates the switch will be OFF while the rudder stick is neutral but ON when the stick is hard over. If at this point you move the rudder stick, there will be no change in the information line. This is because no boundary has been established between the ON and OFF regions.
So for the switch to work, enter one number in the L: line and one number in the R: line if you wish for the switch to change states on both sides of neutral. If you want the switch to work on one side only, enter a number on that side and leave the other line as INH, INH. The switch will work for an entry as large as 100 but I would recommend you use something slightly less should the gimbal has some mechanical problems or the sticks aren't calibrated.
Now move the rudder stick left and right to verify that the top line changes as you expect. This concludes the programming of the rudder stick position switch. The first attached photo shows the stick poisiton switch’s settings.
Next the aileron rates will be set. If you have already set up aileron rates for the snap, use it. For illustration purposes, I’m going say the aileron P3 rates are the extra high rate set.
On page 3 of the D/R menu under the SW-AUTO column, pick a line, for instance the first one. Open the SWSEL1 menu by selecting it and pressing the roller selector. SPS0 should be available for selection. Set it ON. Next change P0 in the first line to P3. Now push the rudder stick hard over. The switch state at the end of the line will change from OFF to ON.
When you look at the MONITOR, you will see the aileron rates changes to the higher P3 set when the rudder stick is held hard over. The SW-AUTO switch rates takes precedence over rates selected by the normal rate switches and those selected by flight modes. SWSEL1 has precedence over the other SW-AUTO switches.
The next two photos show page 3 of the D/R & EXP menu where the SW-AUTO is set up and the selection menu where SPS0 is checked to turn on P3.
Allan
05-02-2014, 08:23 AM
#4
My Feedback: (5)
It occurred to me after I posted the piece that having the aileron rates jump to a higher group every time that the rudder stick is held hard over may not be entirely desirable. I would recommend, in the D/R & EXP SW-AUTO select menu, SPS0 be AND with another switch. That way the aileron rates will switch over automatically to the higher rates only when you intend. I do something similar when using the snap roll menu. I dedicate a flight mode just for its use so the plane won’t snap when not intended.
Allan
Allan
05-04-2014, 10:13 AM
#5
Thread Starter
Allan
No need to worry on two counts. First, I have the expo set so that there is no change in movement to at least half stick on the three rates I have set and second, I never use full rudder except in spins, stall turns and flick rolls. I fly an F3A biplane and the rudder is so powerful the aircraft will knife edge loop with half rudder in low rates. There is no aileron used in the first two and I definitely want full aileron on the third.
I have used the snap roll switch up to now but that only allows you to snap in a pre-determined way. The alternative is to select aileron high rates for the snap and then return to low rates immediately afterwards. In my current schedule, I only have to perform one snap so the snap roll switch is fine. However, if I want to progress then I'll need to work up to two snaps and in opposite directions one after the other - hence my interest in using the SPS function on the XG11. I'll let you know how I get on when I've flown the beast again with this SPS function enabled.
No need to worry on two counts. First, I have the expo set so that there is no change in movement to at least half stick on the three rates I have set and second, I never use full rudder except in spins, stall turns and flick rolls. I fly an F3A biplane and the rudder is so powerful the aircraft will knife edge loop with half rudder in low rates. There is no aileron used in the first two and I definitely want full aileron on the third.
I have used the snap roll switch up to now but that only allows you to snap in a pre-determined way. The alternative is to select aileron high rates for the snap and then return to low rates immediately afterwards. In my current schedule, I only have to perform one snap so the snap roll switch is fine. However, if I want to progress then I'll need to work up to two snaps and in opposite directions one after the other - hence my interest in using the SPS function on the XG11. I'll let you know how I get on when I've flown the beast again with this SPS function enabled.
08-05-2014, 02:33 PM
#6
Thread Starter
Allan
Sorry to have taken so long to report back. The SPS has worked fantastically well. I've not, so far, had any unintended operation of the snap function so my theory of needing 100% of aileron and elevator before the snap condition is triggered has been proven.
Now, a slightly different problem - if I may! Having upgraded my XG11 to the latest firmware standard, it says that I can have 6 Flight Modes in Acro mode. Well, I can only figure out how to get the usual 3 by using either the Flap or Aux2 switches. How do you get the remaining 3 Flight Modes?
Peter
Sorry to have taken so long to report back. The SPS has worked fantastically well. I've not, so far, had any unintended operation of the snap function so my theory of needing 100% of aileron and elevator before the snap condition is triggered has been proven.
Now, a slightly different problem - if I may! Having upgraded my XG11 to the latest firmware standard, it says that I can have 6 Flight Modes in Acro mode. Well, I can only figure out how to get the usual 3 by using either the Flap or Aux2 switches. How do you get the remaining 3 Flight Modes?
Peter
08-06-2014, 01:38 AM
#7
My Feedback: (5)
Peter,
I apologize for not commenting on your previous post concerning setting up snaps in different directions. Using flight modes, you can define snaps in four different ways. Just assign a separate flight mode to each. This brings up your present post, how to have more than three flight modes.
You have to choose the CUSTOM option instead of a switch in the Device Select. When you do that a CUSTOM FM line will appear under the FLIGHT MODE line. Highlight the CUSTOM FM and press the selector roller and another menu will appear that allows you to define the six flight modes.
Setting the switches for more than three flight modes can get a little tricky. You’ll have to use the AND button. If you set the switch conditions so two flight modes are possible at the same time, the one having the highest priority in the priority line will always be on and the other one never. You have to make the switch conditions mutually exclusive.
Allan
I apologize for not commenting on your previous post concerning setting up snaps in different directions. Using flight modes, you can define snaps in four different ways. Just assign a separate flight mode to each. This brings up your present post, how to have more than three flight modes.
You have to choose the CUSTOM option instead of a switch in the Device Select. When you do that a CUSTOM FM line will appear under the FLIGHT MODE line. Highlight the CUSTOM FM and press the selector roller and another menu will appear that allows you to define the six flight modes.
Setting the switches for more than three flight modes can get a little tricky. You’ll have to use the AND button. If you set the switch conditions so two flight modes are possible at the same time, the one having the highest priority in the priority line will always be on and the other one never. You have to make the switch conditions mutually exclusive.
Allan
Last edited by AWorrest; 08-06-2014 at 01:57 AM.
08-06-2014, 03:33 PM
#8
Thread Starter
Hi Allan
Many thanks for the advice. I have now selected CUSTOM FM but then I get stuck. I am using the FLAP SW to switch FMs 0, 1 and 2. I now want to set up a fourth FM with a very low rate on the aileron to give a very slow roll rate. I cannnot see how to switch off FM2 and switch on FM3. I cannot for the life of me figure out how to arrange the switches so that FM2 is switched off and FM3 is selected. I don;t need any more than 4 flight modes. Any suggestions on how I make the switches mutually exclusive. I can only seem to get AND logic when selecting switches. Apologies for being so dense!
Peter
Many thanks for the advice. I have now selected CUSTOM FM but then I get stuck. I am using the FLAP SW to switch FMs 0, 1 and 2. I now want to set up a fourth FM with a very low rate on the aileron to give a very slow roll rate. I cannnot see how to switch off FM2 and switch on FM3. I cannot for the life of me figure out how to arrange the switches so that FM2 is switched off and FM3 is selected. I don;t need any more than 4 flight modes. Any suggestions on how I make the switches mutually exclusive. I can only seem to get AND logic when selecting switches. Apologies for being so dense!
Peter
08-06-2014, 11:06 PM
#9
My Feedback: (5)
To have four flight modes, two switches have to be used. Using the FLAP SW for FM0, FM1, and FM2 in conjunction with one of the two-position switches (the MIX SW for illustration), the most understandable way to set it up would be:
FM0 -> FLAP(0)
FM1 -> FLAP(1)
FM2 -> (three buttons) FLAP(2), MIX(0), and AND
FM3 -> (three buttons) FLAP(2), MIX(1), and AND
FM4 and FM5 are left undefined, i.e., no switch positions selected.
Setting up the flight modes like this, there is no switch ambiguity and the priority list can be ignored. If you use the priority list and leave FM3 undefined same as FM4 and FM5, you still can have four flight modes. The priority list has to be:
FM5 > FM4 > FM0 > FM1 > FM2 > FM3
Flight mode three must have the lowest priority for this to work. The transmitter logic looks at the flight mode with the highest priority. If the switches aren’t set for it, it looks at the next lower priority flight mode. Since flight modes four and five aren’t defined, they can never be on. The way flight modes zero, one and two are defined, there will not be any ambiguity among the three. So the order of these three flight modes isn’t important. I just left them in the same order as the default. Finally if you set the FLAP switch to position two and the MIX switch to a position that is NOT position zero, none of the flight modes have their specifications met so the logic uses the flight mode with the lowest priority even if it is not defined.
This last setup is not immediately obvious. I wouldn’t recommend it if the second flight mode switch is two-position. However, if the second switch is three-position, then you would use this scheme. Using two three-position switches, such as FLAP SW and AUX2 SW, it would go like this:
FM0 -> FLAP(0)
FM1 -> FLAP(1)
FM2 -> (three buttons) FLAP(2), AUX2(0), and AND
FM3, FM4 and FM5 are left undefined.
Set the priority list to: FM0 > FM1 > FM2 > FM5 > FM4 > FM3
(I changed the order from the previous example to show that the only essential factor is that FM3 must have lowest priority. The priority of the other flight modes is not important.)
Whenever the FLAP SW is in position two and the AUX2 SW is in position zero, you’ll have flight mode two. With the FLAP SW in position two and the AUX2 SW is in positions two or three, you’ll have flight mode three.
BTW, even though I had done some circuitry designing, I still have to check the flight mode programming to be certain it works as intended. Sometimes it doesn’t on the first pass.
Allan
FM0 -> FLAP(0)
FM1 -> FLAP(1)
FM2 -> (three buttons) FLAP(2), MIX(0), and AND
FM3 -> (three buttons) FLAP(2), MIX(1), and AND
FM4 and FM5 are left undefined, i.e., no switch positions selected.
Setting up the flight modes like this, there is no switch ambiguity and the priority list can be ignored. If you use the priority list and leave FM3 undefined same as FM4 and FM5, you still can have four flight modes. The priority list has to be:
FM5 > FM4 > FM0 > FM1 > FM2 > FM3
Flight mode three must have the lowest priority for this to work. The transmitter logic looks at the flight mode with the highest priority. If the switches aren’t set for it, it looks at the next lower priority flight mode. Since flight modes four and five aren’t defined, they can never be on. The way flight modes zero, one and two are defined, there will not be any ambiguity among the three. So the order of these three flight modes isn’t important. I just left them in the same order as the default. Finally if you set the FLAP switch to position two and the MIX switch to a position that is NOT position zero, none of the flight modes have their specifications met so the logic uses the flight mode with the lowest priority even if it is not defined.
This last setup is not immediately obvious. I wouldn’t recommend it if the second flight mode switch is two-position. However, if the second switch is three-position, then you would use this scheme. Using two three-position switches, such as FLAP SW and AUX2 SW, it would go like this:
FM0 -> FLAP(0)
FM1 -> FLAP(1)
FM2 -> (three buttons) FLAP(2), AUX2(0), and AND
FM3, FM4 and FM5 are left undefined.
Set the priority list to: FM0 > FM1 > FM2 > FM5 > FM4 > FM3
(I changed the order from the previous example to show that the only essential factor is that FM3 must have lowest priority. The priority of the other flight modes is not important.)
Whenever the FLAP SW is in position two and the AUX2 SW is in position zero, you’ll have flight mode two. With the FLAP SW in position two and the AUX2 SW is in positions two or three, you’ll have flight mode three.
BTW, even though I had done some circuitry designing, I still have to check the flight mode programming to be certain it works as intended. Sometimes it doesn’t on the first pass.
Allan
Last edited by AWorrest; 08-06-2014 at 11:28 PM.
08-07-2014, 03:42 PM
#10
Thread Starter
Allan you are an absolute genius! Very many thanks for sharing that powerful sequence with me. I had not realised that the AND button could be engaged as I'd just scrolled right through it without seeing that you could highlight it and select it on and off! I've now set up my Tx with 4 flight modes and it all works on the MONITOR screen. Tomorrow, I'll check it out on the model.
Have you got any other programming gems that you think would be helpful to those of us who are a bit challenged in setting up these powerful transmitters?
Also, would you mind if I were to use this information, attributing it to you and RC Universe in another forum?
Peter
Have you got any other programming gems that you think would be helpful to those of us who are a bit challenged in setting up these powerful transmitters?
Also, would you mind if I were to use this information, attributing it to you and RC Universe in another forum?
Peter
08-11-2014, 01:25 PM
#11
Thread Starter
Hi again Allan, another area I've been trying to figure out is how to use the Trim input switch function. JR's importer in the UK, MacGregor Industries, does not think this function can be used to set up the mixes for flying knife edge. That is I would like to adjust the amount of elevator and aileron, separately of course(!), when actually flying the aircraft so that I don't have to land, make an adjustment, and then check it out in the air. Have you any words of wisdom on this issue?
Peter
Peter
08-11-2014, 06:57 PM
#12
My Feedback: (5)
The XG11 programing doesn’t have a trim-in function for knife-edge adjustment. The FLAP SYSTEM’s trim-in, to a limited degree, can be used to aid in determining the rudder to aileron/elevator ratios. By using the FLAP SYSTEM, during knife-edge you can play with the trim-ins for elevator and rudder to determine the amount of each that is needed when the rudder is held hard over. Then switch out of the flap system condition while in knife-edge, land, and transfer the FLAP SYSTEM settings to the RUDD -> A/E menu. This is not the same as using the XG8 trim-in for knife-edge. In the XG8, the trim-in sets the rudder-to-aileron and rudder-to-elevator ratios.
I wouldn’t recommend doing this. Last year I tried this idea with a medium size electric pattern plan. It worked on two passes, but on the third I put the plane into the club’s pond. Only the rear half of the plane was recovered.
The work load is too great if something goes amiss. Extra programming is needed to automatically exit the landing system condition when the plane is heading toward the ground. It can be argued that with all the extra work required to set the RUDD -> A/E ratios using the FLAP SYSTEM, the risk is not worth it.
Allan
I wouldn’t recommend doing this. Last year I tried this idea with a medium size electric pattern plan. It worked on two passes, but on the third I put the plane into the club’s pond. Only the rear half of the plane was recovered.
The work load is too great if something goes amiss. Extra programming is needed to automatically exit the landing system condition when the plane is heading toward the ground. It can be argued that with all the extra work required to set the RUDD -> A/E ratios using the FLAP SYSTEM, the risk is not worth it.
Allan
