AndyKunz

So your wiring from AR9020 to Alpha 6 is:

AILE -> A1 (INPUT SIDE)
AUX1 -> A2
ELEV -> E3
AUX4 -> E4
RUDD -> R5
gain? -> G6

The servos then are plugged in this way:

OUTPUT SIDE
A1 -> right aileron
A2 -> left aileron
E3 -> right elevator
E4 -> left elevator
R5 -> rudder
R6, 7, 8 -> not used

Is that correct? The engineer who worked on this is on vacation this week, so I may not have good answers here for a few days. I'm working through what I know and we're almost to the limit of my knowledge.

Andy

djmp69

Yes thats correct with the exception that my rudder is plugged into r6 on the output side to take advantage of the heading hold gain (in the manual it says the r5 port is always in rate mode, and the r6 port is in heading mode when the gain is 0 to -100, like when you toggle the mode switch im guessing).

Funny thing, while waiting for your thoughts, i powered up everything just to see if i could figure anything out. Havent touched anything since i experienced the issues last night. Guess what? Not a peep. Not a single twitch. I let it sit for about 5 mins, nothing. I simulated holding elevator thru a HUGE loop or bank turn, nothing. All 3 modes, seemed to work fine.

You think it had to catch up or something? Or could there be an issue with this particular unit that makes operation touch and go at best? Now im really confused. Im going to go to work now, and try it again when i get home tonight...

djmp69

UPDATE:

I tried this from my phone, but I don't think the post went thru, so I'll try it again. Please forgive me if this ends up being a double post.

I believe I have found the problem. One thing that I forgot that I changed on a hunch was the frame rate. Initially I had the frame rate in the DX9 set to 11ms because I'm using all digital servos. When I changed to 22ms, the twitching and unwanted movements went away. I let the plane sit for extended periods of time, and still, no problems. I moved the plane in different attitudes, the Alpha 6 did what it was supposed to do.

Just to verify, I switched the frame rate in the DX9 back to 11ms, and whaddya know? Surfaces started going crazy just like before. Changed the frame rate back to 22ms, plane is quiet as a mouse. It appears that the Alpha 6 cannot handle or just doesn't like 11ms frame rate. Seems like an important note that should be in the manual or a needed firmware update...

Will test again to be sure, but after this, I have MUCH more confidence to test it in the air now. If I don't experience any more issues, I will test flight Friday, and post results here.

PS - One other thing I found, which is GREAT! The Alpha 6 apparently will NOT engage if the mode switch is set to anything other than "No Gain" mode. Seems like a nifty safety feature!

djmp69

Not exactly sure why the SRXL method wont work, but at least it seems to be fine with a "regular" setup!

AndyKunz

It could be using a different gain or FMode channel. The nice part about the direct wiring is you can use any channel you want.

I'll talk to the engineer next week. pm me on Tuesday if a forget.

Andy

djmp69

Ok, so the first test flight scared the crap outta me! Works great in rate mode, but in heading mode the surfaces go crazy, plane starts trying to go every which way violently, kinda like theres flutter.*Funny thing, when the plane is on the ground, everything is rock solid in all modes, *even when throttling up to flying rpms. *The anomalies only happen in the air. Glad i got the plane down in one piece.*Any ideas?

djmp69

UPDATE: Turns out its the rudder oscillating. The faster i fly, the worse it gets. Possibly gain too high?

AndyKunz

That's EXACTLY how you know, yes. Probably time to brush up on how to adjust the gains in your model.

Basically, you start low and turn them up until you have oscillation, then back off a smidgen.

Andy

djmp69

Any idea how? Again, the manual doesnt really say much if anything on this. I know i can adjust it in the app for the Alpha 6, but I dont see a way to do it from the DX9. I know theres a way to assign a channel for gain, but im just missing it, lol. But so far, in rate mode, the Alpha 6 performs BEAUTIFULLY. So far 5 flights in 12+ mph winds, and WOW! Just want to get HEading hold mode down, and Im sold...

rcmiket

I've said it once and will say it again the Spektrum team needs get a complete set of directions along with a user video for those mere mortals who aren't that tech savoy Is that really to much to ask for a $129.99 unit? Mines sitting on the bench along with the Hitec HG3XA and I can't wait to play with it. I've done heli's fly-bar and flybarless so I don't expect to much problem but who knows.
My favorite one was about the "one and only guy who knows about this unit didn't come in today". If you have a few hours and a case of beer I'll tell you about my experience with the DXE and customer service.

Mike

djmp69

True, a more complete manual and some vid tutorials would help alot. Especially for something that is so new. I would guess the flip side is that BECAUSE it's so new, there's not much known about it other than how it SHOULD work. But as quality control meets demand for sales, sometimes things get pushed onto the market before things can fully be checked out. Plus, by nature of new things, there are certain things that won't ever be found out until tested in the "real world". As limited as the support in this situation was, it WAS there, and extremely helpful in getting to the bottom of the issues. To the point that I am still smiling from the performance. Even though I didn't get to try everything because of the heading hold issue, and the SRXL issue, once again the support was there to point me in the right direction for the solution.

Now, that being said, I plan to make the adjustments (still have to figure out how a way to change gain for the rudder from the TX--if not, I'll use the app), and test it again, and once everything is dialed in, I will be making some sort of vid about settting up the Alpha 6 based on my experiences. Together with this thread, hopefully others will have an easier time with it while Spektrum beefs up the manual with troubleshooting and more complete instructions.

All in all, so far the Alpha 6 is starting to pan out for me as a good investment, stay tuned as I learn more! Vid coming soon too...

djmp69

Ok so I think I got it. Andy, I'd appreciate if you correct anything in my understanding if I got it wrong!

So what I have found so far is that in the app you can customize individual gains for elavator, aileron and rudder. The 3 pole gain mode switch is switching the overall gain level to tell the Alpha 6 whether or not you want rate gain (which is great by the way), no gain, or heading hold. If I understand right, that switch would actually be better set up as a flight mode switch, then for the actual gain channel (input channel 6 on the Alpha), you would have a knob or slider to easily adjust overall gain on the fly. If I got that right, that's really cool.

I flew today in 15+ mph winds with up to 20mph gusts. GREAT day for testing. In the app, I dialed back the gain on the rudder, and the oscillations in heading hold decreased, but were still very there. So when the above thought hit me, I took a minute and made some changes in my DX, and it helped greatly. Sadly, I'd left the pc interface cable at home, so I was stuck with the individual gain values, but I was able to change overall gain values. The knob and slider were a little too fast in changing the values for my taste, so I settled for adjusting the travel for my gain mode switch to limit the travel for heading hold direction. Worked like a charm. Of course I had to land each time I wanted to change the value, but hey, I got good landing practice. And when it got just too ridiculous windy, popped on rate gain which worked beautifully, and safely landed the plane. When I finally got to a heading hold gain value I was comfortable with, it held nicely. I'll do some more fine tuning tomorro when the winds are way more calm, and I can better see what's going on. It's nice how it doesn't take over and try to fly the plane for you like others I've seen and tried, it's just a great copilot!

Now since I have everything set up, I will have to wait to try the SRXL method on the next Alpha 6 I get. I think the reason it didn't work for me is because the SRXL cable is just for the surface servos, and there still has to be a mode switch lead between the RX and Alpha 6, which I had not run. I was under the impression, as is diagrammed in the manual, that the SRXL lead was all that was needed. Even though I activated SRXL in the app, I got no response. Again, Andy, please correct me if I am wrong on this.

Thanks again!

AndyKunz

When you have SRXL configured properly, you only need the SRXL cable. You don't need anything else.

Everything else you wrote looks OK though.

Andy

GR7Racer

It has been my experience with other gyro systems (igyro, demon cortex) that you do not want to use heading hold on the rudder. I would suggest that you move your rudder servo connection on the Alpha 6 to the output that is rate mode only when you continue your experiments with heading hold. The heading hold output on the Alpha 6 for the rudder channel would work well on your nose/tail gear steering if you have a dedicated servo for steering.

KennyMac

djmp69

That's seems like some good advice, thanks Racer! I noticed in the app, the default was that the rudder was in Rate. Just so I know what's going on, why is this? What adverse effects does HH have on the rudder? I tried in the app switching the output to HH on the rudder, but I didn't notice anything different. Possibly because I had my master HH gain too low. This weekend I'm going to try to raise the overall gain, leave the rudder where it is and dial down the aile and elevs, just to see if that gives a similar performance with a little more aurthority from the rudder.

Also, is there a way from the DX9 to access individual axis gain rates? I know it has 3 different gyro menus, but it appears that those are for three separate physical gyros. Since the Alpha 6 is one unit with multiple settings, I wonder if there is a way to change gains for aile, elev, and rudder individually without having to land everytime, take off the canopy, plug in, etc. I found that you can't leave the cable plugged in either--the Alpha 6 won't engage or let you do anything if the pc interface cable is still plugged into the prog port...

ideas?

AndyKunz

The three gyros are all in the same component on the circuit board. It's a 3-axis gyro sensor. 1 axis each for roll, pitch, and yaw - that's why the three screens.

Settings for each can be adjusted independently using the phone/PC apps.

The gains in each axis are limited by the G (gain) channel input. When G is at 100% travel, the effective gains for roll, pitch, and yaw are at the programmed amounts. When G is at 50% of range, the gains for all axes are reduced to half of the programmed amounts, and so on.

Andy

GR7Racer

djmp69,
So with the rudder in heading hold, every time you roll the plane into a turn and add elevator, the heading hold on rudder is going to try to keep the airplane pointed in the same (yaw) direction that it was going... so it will fight to keep the airplane from changing heading. When you turn left, it will start adding right rudder as the airplane turns. Depending on the airplane, it will get pretty ugly and I've seen people crash because of it.

Get started with everything in rate mode and work on your gain settings until you like how it feels. On the DX18 (same applies to DX9) I use the gyro programming screen to set the gain. I would suggest that you use one of the three-position switches initially so you can have three gain values when you are flying.... One for high gain when you are flying slow such as takeoff and landing, one for a lower gain for when you are flying at full speed, and one set with the gain/gyro off in case you run into a problem with a reversed correction on the gyro or if the gyro comes loose in the airplane (very bad).

Once everything is set the way I like it, I will set the switch to the same switch as I use for flaps if the airplane has flaps, or gear if the plane has retracts. With the flaps up, I use a lower gain setting because the airplane is typically traveling faster, a little higher gain for half flaps used when taking off, and highest gain on full flaps for landing when the plane will be flying its slowest. Alternately, you could use the gear switch and have two gain settings... High gain when the gear is down for takeoff and landing, and lower gain when the gear is up and you are at speed. Using one of these two switches simplifies changing the gyro gains as you do it automatically as you reconfigure the airplane for the different flight envelopes.

If you don't have gear of flaps, just stick with the initial option and have its own dedicated switch.

On the initial page of the gyro setup screen in the DX18 or DX9 you can select a gain adjustment. This works in conjunction with the values and switch positions that you setup on the next screen. I typically use either the knob or one of the trimmer switches. This can make finding your gain values a little easier. What I do is set a gain value for both high and low speed flight on my gyro gain switch, and then go fly. While I'm flying at full speed, I will then use the knob or trimmer to adjust the gain up or down. I usually increase the gain with the knob/trimmer until I start getting oscillations and then back it down some. Then I land and make note of the value for the gyro gain in the transmitter's monitor screen. I then reset my knob/trimmer back to the neutral point and increase or decrease my gain setting for that switch position until it matches what I had with the knob/trimmer adjustment. Once I have my gain settings where I like them, I usually disable the knob/trimmer so I don't accidentally move them and throw off my gain values.

I've been flying the Alpha 6 on my H9 60cc mustang and it seems to work pretty well. I have the 1.1 software and I need to have the gains pretty high. I am at 100% for slow flight, and about 90% for full speed. The first axis that shows oscillation is the roll (ailerons) with the wings doing a slight back and forth rocking when the speed/gain gets too high. With the newer gyro firmware, these gain values might be different... in fact, gain values can be affected by lots of things including servo speed, linkage geometry, CG, control surface area, etc... You'll have to discover this on your own and learn how to be a good test pilot! It's actually fun to have something to experiment with! I'll be updating my gyro with the latest firmware soon and hope to get the telemetry working as well.

KennyMac

djmp69

Thanks guys. I understand how the Alpha 6 is set up, and how to access the setting for the three axis controls in the app, but I was wondering if there was a method of making changes that didn't involve having to plug in from the app each time. Meaning, could I do the same thing from the TX. Right now, Racers initial starting description exactly how I have it set. My gain mode is on a 3 pole switch on an open aux channel. The thing is I'm experimenting with different settings. In rate mode everything is GREAT. Plane flies rock solid.

Heading hold is where I experienced trouble--oscillation that is minimal at slow speed and got worse as speed increased. So for my first change, I dialed down my rudder gain in the app, without much improvement. Then I tried dialing down the mode gain on the switch. BIG improvement, no oscillations at any speed, and plane held in level flight and in high alpha. But the rudder seemed to not be as effective. Then I tried dialing up the hh gain for the rudder. Same thing, rudder doesn't seem to have much authority. Plane falls off in knife edges and hovers for example. Next, I figured I try upping the switch value, and lowering axis values in turn (ie keep rudder up, but lower, aile and elev, etc.) Each time I made a change, I landed the plane, shut it down, took off the canopy, plugged in, made the change, unhooked, closed her up, etc. WHEW!

Again, in rate mode it's beautiful. I have no problems testing new configurations, and am no newcomer to testing. I've maidened many scratch builts and have tried some pretty interesting/radical setups with no casualties (knock knock knock). It's just that with little instruction or troubleshooting guides available for the Alpha 6, I have to rely on people like you guys who thankfully have had experience with the product! Kenny, funny you should mention the Mustang, that's ultimately where the A6 is going! I just have it on an Extra right now for testing, getting to know the product. I'll bet too that because of the oversized surfaces, fine tuning will be a bit tricky. You're right, even tho it is quite a process, I am still having fun learning it and finding out new things about it. I'm sure I'll learn even more about the A6 as I try it with different types of aircraft. Got some things to try this weekend...

djmp69

Oh wow, just had a big "DOH!" moment. GR7Racer's explanation of why not have rudder in heading hold finally sank in, which is why I probably had more oscillation than should have been there. Let's see if I got this:

Because of the way the manual described the rudder outputs' (R5 vs R6) gain setup, I figured putting the rudder in the R6 for heading hold would give me the authority I wanted for holding knife edges and hovers. However, I think that because of that, as Kenny explained, when the A6 was working to stabilize, the wings would roll one way to level, but the rudder would then try to compensate, which we all know that when you rudder one way, one wing goes faster and gets more lift, making the plane roll the other way. Now the rudder has to compensate more for heading hold, which amplifies the roll back the other way, and so on.

I'm going to reset, plug my rudder in R5, put the app back at defaults and start over. If my suspicions are correct, I'll still have to tune down a bit, but I'll bet not as far, and I'll have better gain values for the plane. But then how do I take advantage of heading hold with the rudder? I've seen the effects of heading hold on the rudder in testing on the bench--when the plane yaws, the rudder moves to compensate and hold heading. But if it's in rate mode all the time, it will slip. In other words, how then, do I get the rudder to perform like the elevator and ailerons in maintaining a heading, but avoid the oscillation?

GR7Racer

I don't think you're going to be able to avoid that problem if you keep rudder in HH. I think having rudder stay in rate mode while elev and ail go to HH would be a better/safer alternative. Even if you have an airplane with virtually no roll coupling with rudder input, it would still fight you whenever you tried to turn the airplane. I've heard of a few people who have used HH on rudder for takeoffs and landing, but they either flip to rate mode before they turn after takeoff, or in the case of landing they turn it to HH when they are lined up on final. The benefit just isn't that great in my opinion to go through all of that switch flipping during critical phases of flight. For maintaining knife edge or help in holding yaw in other maneuvers, I think you're asking too much. You're probably going to have to use your thumbs for that. Rate mode will help almost as much as HH for that sort of stuff. I've got a friend who uses HH on his F-14 for a slow high alpha straight pass, but I'm pretty sure he doesn't go to HH until he is lined up and set. I'm not sure if he is even using HH on rudder for that. That's something you're going to have to experiment with to see if you get the results that you are looking for.

As far as adjusting parameters independently, I think the PC usb connection is our only option right now. Andy also posts on the RC G r o u p s and in the Alpha 6 thread over there he has mentioned that there's an update coming for the TX firmware that will allow you to at least see what the settings are on the TX via telemetry. I'm not sure if we will be able to adjust them on the TX, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed!... I wouldn't mind an iPhone and Android option as well....maybe via Bluetooth? One more accessory to buy!!

KennyMac

djmp69

Thank you once again, good stuff, GOOD STUFF. You just confirmed my suspicions, which is fine. At least now I know. Honestly, rate mode does just fine with high alpha, and knife edges, in terms of the plane not being as twitchy, especially in unpredictable wind. Even when performing elevators, it makes them even more smooth than i already do. I am more comfortable with controlling the plane myself anyway. I guess i thought hh was more capable. Id much rather do it safely anyway, and the one thing i really like about the A6 is that you have seamless, full control of the aircraft. Not like some others that take over and try to fly for you.

So it appears thay everything is working as it should, and i finally have a good grasp of how to use this unit. I for one say the Alpha 6 is the real deal, and once support catches up with the performance, its perfect. And by support i mean on paper and online. Andy and tech support, and now you Kenny have been amazing in helping me. Humans unfortunately have lives and schedules and cant always be immediately available, so better literature (that im sure is coming) will help immensely.

Thanks again!

straitnickel

when you hook up the gyro to your PC and open the spectrum programming app it will display the serial number when you click on the update icon.

MarkyMarj

I have an AR9020, DX18 and i have set up with SRXL. When I plug the power in the light is green but it is not as3x, so I go through the processes and the blue light will not stop flashing. The alpha - 6 is updated and the programmer is the latest. according to Spektrum my DX 18 is up to date. I have the G6 connected to my aux2 however this has not helped either. Any advice would be appreciated, thank you.

olmosff

I'm having the same problem as you, but I'm using a Futaba 14SG radio with a R7008SB receiver.

Let me know if you receive any update.Thanks.

ThomasU

Hi all, happy to find someone using Spektrum alpha-6. I use Spektrum RC since 4 years, last year I made my first AS3X Experience with AR635 (tricky to configure with the transmitter) and AR636 (much better with IOS app). So, having experince with the IOS app, owning the cable and trusting the avertisement of new alpha-6 I ordered this box and got it since one week. But I have more questions than expected:
- The manual is useless, No tips or troubleshooting
- IOS app does not connect with alpha-6, it even destroys it (no flasing light any more, setup not possible) -> returned to dealer
- Where is the panic mode? (although I am an experienced pilot, but would be useful for beginners training)
- How can I change the gain values w/o PC app?
- How to setup DX-9 transmitter to change gain values during flight for every flightmode?

Lot of question, hopefully someone could help. Many greetings from Germany, Thomas