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JR 12X flap sys question

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Old 01-29-2019, 04:45 PM
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planenutzz
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Default JR 12X flap sys question

Gents,
I'm still using my old 12X, ues its getting a little long in the tooth but will have to soldier on for a bit longer. the through of manually compying all my settings for a dozen models over to a new radio such as a Spektrum DX-20 does not fill me with delight at all.

So to question 1: Is there anyway to copy the model settings over say by the buddy cord from a JR 12X to Spektrum DX-20 ? I would imagine the data protocols and the formats the data is stored in would not be compatible but who knows!

Question 2: I am currently setting up a H9 RV-4 and programming the flaps. All my models use the flap lever on the RHS of the Tx. However if I set up FLAP SYS it defaults to the Flap Switch and I can not assign the Flap lever. I currently have the Flap ch mated to AUX2 in the system menu. AUX2 switch is INH.
Is there a way to say assign FLAP lever to say AUX2 & leave FLAP switch assigned to FLAP (AUX1) ?? I'd assume that either the switch or the lever would then work the flaps. Not my preference but might have to compromise on that.
Current setuup just mating flap to AUX2 & using flap lever inhibits the FLAP SYS which I would like to be able to use.
Nope I do not wish to operate flaps using the flap lever. All my other model use the lever and its what I am used to. Bit like the throttle (gas) pedel always being under your right foot!

thanks in advance.
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Old 01-30-2019, 09:46 AM
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Well the answer to your first question is no.

The answer to your second question is maybe. The key to messing around with changing default switches on a JR radio is to first go into the system menu and inhibit everything after the first four channels. Then create a mix from the flap switch to the side lever and see if you can make it work. It's been too long since we setup my KingCat on my 12X so I don't know if you'll be able to use the flap system or not, you may have to just mix the two channels and assign them to the lever.
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Old 01-30-2019, 04:26 PM
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Thought as much about the data transfer. thanks though for confirming my thoughts.

tried all of that with trying to mix the flap lever over without success.
In SYS menu I have flap ch aux 1 mated to aux 2 and have flap lever ACT for the flap ch.
I did a flap to elevator mix for trim compensation but it only works for full flaps, not half.
Also changed the servo speeds to slow the flap operation to 2.38 sec
Its a poor mans FLAP SYS

I did get the landing lights sorted using a RXCEL opto kill switch with seperate battery pack on AUX4 and mixed to flap so the lights come on with any flap setting.
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Old 01-31-2019, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by planenutzz View Post
. . . I did a flap to elevator mix for trim compensation but it only works for full flaps, not half. . . .
There is some problem with the program mix. It is possible to have elevator compensation over the entire flap travel range.

Allan
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Old 01-31-2019, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by AWorrest View Post
There is some problem with the program mix. It is possible to have elevator compensation over the entire flap travel range.

Allan
ok so how do you do it?
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Old 02-01-2019, 12:12 AM
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Where do you want the lever to be positioned when the flaps are closed? Lever position when the flaps are fully deployed? Do you need the flaps to reflex upwards? Do you want the auto land capability? How much flap servo travel do you need, +/- 100% or 0% to 100%?

When I set the flaps up on my 12X to see what it took to get them working with the lever, I took a very quick approach by assuming the flaps were closed at the lever detent or half way position and open at the lever extreme positions. You may want something different.
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Old 02-01-2019, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by planenutzz View Post
ok so how do you do it?
Alan has raised an excellent question; where is the neutral setting on the flap servos? Normally it would be as Alan said, the neutral servo travel is at the mid flap position. So the servo rotates one way for full flaps from that point and the other way for retracted flaps from that point. So you've got to compensate with the mixes and travel directions to get the trim following. I went and looked at my 12X setup for the KIngCat and we wound up using the flap switch to get the elevator compensation on deployment. I needed 13 channels and there just wasn't a way to set it up so I'd have a free channel that could be used and then assigned to the lever. We wound up putting the rudders on a matchbox and giving each flap it's own channel. I know that isn't what you wanted to hear, but I had a friend help me with that setup and he is a very knowledgeable person when it comes to programming radios. He helps lots of guys at our field with radio issues with all sorts of brands and models and he always seems to get it to work. So when he finally looked at me that night after several hours and said there wasn't anyway he could get the flaps matched up so it would not cause a roll when the flaps came out, without using two channels, the flap system and the three position switch, I took him at his word
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Old 02-03-2019, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by AWorrest View Post
Where do you want the lever to be positioned when the flaps are closed? Lever position when the flaps are fully deployed? Do you need the flaps to reflex upwards? Do you want the auto land capability? How much flap servo travel do you need, +/- 100% or 0% to 100%?

When I set the flaps up on my 12X to see what it took to get them working with the lever, I took a very quick approach by assuming the flaps were closed at the lever detent or half way position and open at the lever extreme positions. You may want something different.
Allan
Flaps up (closed) lever is fully up
Half flap is on the indent
Full flap the lever is fully down.

Actual % of throw is imaterials as I will adjust to suit. Not after autoland. I simply want to be ale to have elevator trim applied accross the range of flap movement. If I could use FLAP SYS then that would do it but as I can not use the flap lever in FLAP SYS I have to use a mix as a work around.

I currently have such a mix but it only works on full flaps, so if somebody can advise how I can elevator trim accross the range of flap movement that would be appreciated.
thanks
cheers
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Old 02-03-2019, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Zeeb View Post
Alan has raised an excellent question; where is the neutral setting on the flap servos? Normally it would be as Alan said, the neutral servo travel is at the mid flap position. So the servo rotates one way for full flaps from that point and the other way for retracted flaps from that point. So you've got to compensate with the mixes and travel directions to get the trim following. I went and looked at my 12X setup for the KIngCat and we wound up using the flap switch to get the elevator compensation on deployment. I needed 13 channels and there just wasn't a way to set it up so I'd have a free channel that could be used and then assigned to the lever. We wound up putting the rudders on a matchbox and giving each flap it's own channel. I know that isn't what you wanted to hear, but I had a friend help me with that setup and he is a very knowledgeable person when it comes to programming radios. He helps lots of guys at our field with radio issues with all sorts of brands and models and he always seems to get it to work. So when he finally looked at me that night after several hours and said there wasn't anyway he could get the flaps matched up so it would not cause a roll when the flaps came out, without using two channels, the flap system and the three position switch, I took him at his word
The flaps are if you read my original post on seperate channels. FLAP Ch (AUX1) and AUX2

I'll play with a bit more during the week to see if I can get a a starting point offset in the mix.

Last edited by planenutzz; 02-03-2019 at 07:10 PM.
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Old 02-03-2019, 10:16 PM
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I have a setup that will do what you want but I have Auto Land incorporated. If you donít want Auto Land, I could eliminate it. That would simplify the mix and make it more understandable.

Allan
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Old 02-04-2019, 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by AWorrest View Post
I have a setup that will do what you want but I have Auto Land incorporated. If you donít want Auto Land, I could eliminate it. That would simplify the mix and make it more understandable.

Allan
thanks mate Iíd be keen to see how you did it.

I did manage to get proportional flap to elevator trim working using the offset function and adjusting the P0 values till it seems to work.

Your way may be far far more eloquent!!
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Old 02-04-2019, 12:24 PM
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If you never want to use the Auto Land function, we probably did the same thing. One FLAP -> ELEVATOR normal mix with +170 offset, using only P0 mix rate. If you need AUTO LAND, then things get interesting.

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Old 02-04-2019, 01:42 PM
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Sounds same setup, though I am using +180 offset and - 15 as the value on down P0 value.

I tried the AND switch functions but they don't work unless you are using that particular switch.
Never played with AUTO land features before, most of my birds are warbirds and I like those to be failry simple setups.

thanks for your help as it got me thinking in different directions.
cheers
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Old 02-04-2019, 03:41 PM
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Flap-to-elevator mix to get elevator trim using the flap elevator lever for flap control. Auto Land is not possible using this mix as shown. The trim rate of 15% actually will produce a 30% elevator trim when the flap lever is pulled from closed to open flap position. This is due to using the offset which changes the normal +100% flap position to the new zero flap position.


I haven’t looked closely at my12X but on my other JR transmitters +170 represents +100% and -170 marks the -100% position. An offset of 180 may make the new zero position a bit more than the previous +100% mark.


Auto Land is fun to play with. When the throttle stick is moved passed a designated position, the flaps close and the elevator trim goes to neutral. It’s good for Touch & Go. Otherwise, it could be a nuisance. Using the FLAP SYS, it cannot be turned on and off in flight. Using the lever and program mixes, it can.

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Old 02-04-2019, 03:58 PM
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thanks mate that is exactly th same as I did last night except for amount of offset, 180 in my case.

All trial and error, I'll do a few flights on the RV-4 sunday and see how it behaves and adjust accordingly. Heavy warbirds are much easier as they tend to not baloon as much. Especially my P47 (38lbs) & Seafury 44lbs

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