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matchboxes causes radio failure?!

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Old 12-22-2002, 04:07 PM
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BWCon
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Default matchboxes causes radio failure?!

Danny,

We wrote to you about a fibreclassic that whent in for no reason:


We were flying a fibreclassic 40% 330l,

the plane flew fine for about 3 minutes and then on a turn it 45% knife edged into the ground, no control, the plane flew for about 1.5 minutes on it's own before it hit. the control surfaces were straight not floppy and when we got to the plane the radio was turned back on and it all worked?! 10x transmitter and we had flown the plane about 5 times before. any thoughts on what the hell happened?

You Wrote: Very sorry to hear of your problems, and your loss of the plane. There are a lot of possibilities as to what happened there. It sounds to me like you had a lock out, but it is difficult to say what caused it. It could be a stray signal or ground clutter was on your frequency or near it, or it could have been model generated RF noise.
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Old 12-22-2002, 04:10 PM
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Default more

Well after some more flights and MANY people later we are finding a disturbing trend. the matchboxes are causing lock outs in the radio systems. Over and over again we are seeing this, but when we disconect the matchboxes everything is okay.

We love JR., I love my JR but with the money we have invested in the planes we are scared to death on the matchbox situation. Belive me we are not idiots, and not posting this in light manner. What is JRs official stance on this.
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Old 12-22-2002, 05:40 PM
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Default Circumstances

Under what specific conditions are you and your mates finding this condition? Setups, batts, regulators, linkages etc. I've got a total of 3 in two 40%ers with zero problems. Interested in your situation_bob
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Old 12-22-2002, 07:39 PM
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Default matchboxes causes radio failure?!

Both single or dual JR 955S receivers
Regulated duaflights or Nicads
Rudder: 4 8411 seros to matchbox with it's own battery
Elevator: 2 8411each side to matchbox with it's own battery
Wings: 2 8411 each side to matchbox with it's own battery
reciever(s) running throddle and has it's own battery

We have tried several planes and there are sucsess stories in our club also(never having a problem) but this is happining more and more?
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Old 12-22-2002, 08:47 PM
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Default As an aside

Are you in close proximity to either a television station or pager tower? Any particular freq, or just in general?
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Old 12-22-2002, 09:40 PM
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Default matchboxes causes radio failure?!

no radio or tele towers, we checked all freq. with a tester. any channel does not matter, two totally different locations, all kinds of planes and engine combos. Sometimes running on the ground, sometimes sitting on your building table??!!
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Old 12-22-2002, 11:04 PM
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Default matchboxes causes radio failure?!

Just posting to keep an eye on this thread..

(I have 3 Matchboxes in my 33% Cap so I am very interested in the findings.)
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Old 12-22-2002, 11:13 PM
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Default Just a thought

I just wanted to also say that there are people who have great luck with these matchboxes. I just wonder if there is a % of these that just fail. I am sure that JR's opinion will be to stand behind their product and claim nothing wrong, but right now I am standing behind a $9000.00 pile of crap that once was a Fibreclassic. I doubt that JR will even offer to replace radio gear let alone the aircraft and engine.
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Old 12-23-2002, 12:53 AM
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Default matchboxes causes radio failure?!

JUST POSTING TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS HERE
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Old 12-23-2002, 08:31 AM
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Default matchboxes causes radio failure?!

I have never heard of any problems with a JR Matchbox. You probably just got hit.
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Old 12-23-2002, 09:37 AM
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Default That's always possible, but what about

MANY people later we are finding a disturbing trend. the matchboxes are causing lock outs in the radio systems. Over and over again we are seeing this, but when we disconect the matchboxes
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Old 12-23-2002, 01:25 PM
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Default Got Hit??

We wonderd about the "just got hit" theory, but it has been going on at two to three locations, and when you "just get hit" it hits and lets go. My plane flew itself for a good long time, in a straight line, not jerky, so on. I really do wish I "just got hit", then I could "just get over it" and go on.
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Old 12-23-2002, 02:23 PM
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Default Re: Got Hit??

Originally posted by BWCon
My plane flew itself for a good long time, in a straight line, not jerky, so on.
Are you using PPM or PCM.

If you are using PCM the plane would not be jerky during radio interference. It would go into fail safe.
Most likely, all controls neutral and throttle to idle unless you set the fail safe up for something different.
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Old 12-23-2002, 03:18 PM
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Default Fail Safe

We understand that fail safe would keep everything at neutral, but it was not set at neutral, and throdle was set at idle, plane went in under full power.
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Old 12-23-2002, 07:33 PM
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Default matchboxes causes radio failure?!

I will start by saying that anything that is plugged into the receiver has the potential to cause RF problems. However, the matchbox has an excellent track record for us, and asking around to our techs and a few team members we have not heard of the matchbox causing any problems like this. What did happen when the crash occurred? Did you have any control of any functions at all? You say the plane went in under full power, but you had the throttle set to idle on failsafe. With that number of matchboxes it is not likely that all of them would go at one time and cause you to loose total control. And if the throttle didn't come back, it didn't go into failsafe so you would have some control unless something else happened. That sounds more like a crystal falling out of the receiver, loss of battery power to the receiver, etc. It is really hard to say though. How did you check it without the matchboxes plugged in to know that it is the matchbox? I assume that you are using the matchbox due to using a lot of servos, too many to plug into the receiver itself, were you able to plug everything in to the receiver without the matchboxes with the same extensions and other equipment? Also all the batteries and switches used on the matchboxes? If you can duplicate the problem, send in your matchbox/matchboxes and maybe some of the other equipment with a description of what you did to duplicate it, and let us check it out. Our turn around times are very fast right now, and this way we can track down any potential problems.
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Old 12-23-2002, 08:31 PM
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Default Crystal falling out

when we got to the crash seen we turned back on the transmitter, and guess what everything worked. there went the theory of the crystal falling out. All of the equipment was JR, the switches, the extentions, the matchboxes, the reciever(s).
Danny, I will send it all to you for you to look at, as far as everybody else they will have to decide wether or not to send in theirs.
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Old 12-23-2002, 11:06 PM
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Default matchboxes causes radio failure?!

One question...
Has that crsytal / receiver ever been in a crash?
I have seen crystals that seem fine but under a certain harmonic vibration they quit working and then start to work when the vibration changes..

Just a thought.
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Old 12-24-2002, 12:01 AM
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Default crystal

brand new out of the box, as was the matchboxes, reciever, and all electronics
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Old 12-27-2002, 02:08 AM
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Default another report

A flyer at one of our local feilds wrote;

"I never found or heard an explaination to the problem. I think you can rule out a incompatibility because of my Futaba RX's, because I had a reply off of one of the aerobatic lists, from a guy that had the same problem, and he was all JR. It wasn't the 6 volt packs, because we tried 4.8's. I had another reply, and this guy was using Futaba RX's like me, and have the same problem. The strange thing was, that when I was at home from the field that day, they seemed to be working fine when I set up the plane at home.But those 10 foot range checks at the field were scary.
I know that there are lots of guys using Matchboxes and Equalizers with no problems, but from my personal experience, when I see one, I'll take off and run like a jack rabbit. "

Later,
Randy
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Old 12-27-2002, 05:47 PM
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Default matchboxes causes radio failure?!

We have many of these out there in the field with excellent results. I personnally have several matchboxes without any problems, in fact I don't want to set up a giant scale plane without them, they make it much simpler and add the ability to use spare battery backs on those servos plugged into it, which aids a lot in current distribution in the plane, making it easy to use a single receiver. Many of our other team pilots also share the same results as myself, as well as customers. We have team members using 6 or more in a single plane, without any problems at all. And we are not seeing more than a normal return rate on them.
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Old 12-27-2002, 10:42 PM
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Default Normal return rate?

What does "And we are not seeing more than a normal return rate on them" mean???!!

if one fails does that mean it is acceptable?
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Old 12-28-2002, 02:19 PM
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Default Everything will fail

in time. Nothing is perfect and we shouldn't expect it to be! That's just the way it is in and out of the hobby. The company has a good warranty and fine customer service. Works for me!
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Old 12-29-2002, 11:24 PM
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Default Is JR matchbox incompatible with Futaba radio gear?

There has been a lot of traffic on our club's email list on this topic. No fewer than 5 pilots have encountered problems with using Matchboxes with Futaba equipment (primarily 149DP receivers and Futaba digital servos). Specifically, everything will work fine for a few minutes and then a surface with matched servos will lock up and deflect to one direction. This has resulted in a couple of crashed planes and two of our pilots have been able to recreate the problem on the bench.

One of the incidents, a Matchbox was added to the rudder on a Carden Cap. The plane had dozens of previous problem free flights. Three minutes into the flight after the Matchbox was added, the rudder suddenly fully deflected to the right on a low pass and the plane snapped into the ground. All other surfaces functioned normally during the incident. Upon reaching the plane, the rudder was still locked and receiver power had to by cycled to regain response. The plane had dual Futaba 148DP RX and Futaba digital servos.

Consensus around here seems to be to only use the Matchboxes with JR receivers and servos. We have over 300 members and many pilots with 35% and 40% birds who fly JR and use the Matchbox and I haven't heard of any problems from them, just the people who try to use them with Futaba gear.

Jason
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Old 12-30-2002, 02:46 PM
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Default matchboxes causes radio failure?!

The matchbox should work fine with futaba equipment. We haven't done extensive testing to this end, but it should work just fine.

Every product will have a return rate, no product will go without any problems at all, but the return rate on matchboxes is very low.
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Old 12-30-2002, 03:58 PM
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Default matchboxes causes radio failure?!

I agree. A pulse should be a pulse regardless of the RX that generates it. However, I believe there is merit to this problem. A low return rate doesn't necessarily mean there isn't a problem. Most of the pilots I know are a fairly stoical bunch. When a failure like this happens, they simply remove the suspect component and either toss it in a box or trade it to someone who believes in it. This is especially true in situations where the bad behavior is very intermittent or flaky. That is, a part doesn't completely quit working.

There are many variables and it's difficult to know to an absolute certainty the cause of a specific failure so people usually don't immediately point the finger in the absence of an apparent trend. In this case, at least within our club, we've seen a trend. I believe that with a little investigation you could identify technically competent individuals who have seen, and can recreate this phenomenon.

Jason
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