Thunder8A36

My Feedback: (5)

Danny:

Recently I sent my JR10X to Horizon for a complete check due I had a fatal crash for second time but this time it cost me 10grands¡¡¡¡

So I sent it to horizon with all my modules and 2 receivers involved.The person I was in contact was DD. (let me know if you want to know the real name in a private mesage, just to follow RCU guidelines and do not embarrass someone)

After repair I asked for an information of what happened( I still having a copy of e-mail they sent to me) and in a very short story I was told that seem that the 2 modules were not tuned properly and in theory someone altered the original tunning.

I sent an e-mail back telling that ALL MY STUFF was bougth brand new from Horizon, specialy my two 50band modules and waht such coincidence that only those 2 modules were bad.Untill now I didnt receive any answer back but is also curious that 2 diferents modules with two diferents channels had the same final result and nobody cares.

Danny I realy would like to solve this issue due this big mistake cost me not only 10 grands but also the oportunity to participate at Top-Gun this year(were I will be either way) and a big waste of time and effort for that competition, specialy when you have to come from overseas and having signed compromises with other sponsors due the big investment involved in transport such airplane from my country to Florida.If you want to have an idea of my airplane, there are some pictures in RCU members picture.The airplane was a P-47 Aerotech.

Danny hope to help me to solve this issue and such mistakes with electronic devices wrong tuned from factory is not funny.

I´m a JR loyal customer I would not like to throw away all my equipment and change brand If I dont have to.

Hope you and all reader understand my situation and position, how did you feel if you miss the oportunity to participate in Top Gun after years of preparation for the rigth oportunity and all goes in a trash can just for a defective part( or PARTS in plural).

If you need more specific information and details, dont hessitate to contact me and my wish this kind of problems dont happen more to nobody.

Regards David


P.S Escuse if my english is not perfect guys

dsnyder

I'm very sorry to hear of the problems. I'm not sure what I can do at this point, it sounds like you are in contact with our service department, they are the people you will need to work with. Unfortunetely it is possible that any component could have a problem, we do our very best to avoid it, but things can go wrong. Just out of curiosity, did you range test before flying engine on and engine off?

Thunder8A36

My Feedback: (5)

Danny:

Thanks for your replay, I will copy and paste the original e-mail received from tech department at Horizon so you and forum people make they own opinion:


----- Original Message -----
From: "CD Product Support" <[email protected]>
To: "David" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 11:23 AM
Subject: RE: Double crash


> David here are the comments from the tech that worked on your radio. Hope this helps. If you need anything please contact me. Thanks, and have a great day. Dennis
>
> Tested the transmitter for output, tuning, functions and memory and all tests passed just fine. Tuned all modules for max output and alignment. Two of the 50 mhz modules were off frequency by quite a bit because the adjustment pots had been turned, off normal settings which had narrowed the modulation to dangerous levels. Now all of them check out a-ok. The receiver had the whips installed and were tested for sensitivity, stability, functions and range (300ft+), all tests passed like new. The crystals were also examined and pass inspections fine. Generally speaking the only weak point is that the main battery is modified away from stock and may require replacement if it doesn't pass a runtime test (2.5-3.0 hours antenna up) but otherwise all components are good to go. If you have any questions or need assistance call our Product Support staff at 1-877-504-0233.
> Thank you,
> Bruce
> 3 1 7 Oh yeah, Gyro checked out good to. Sorry lots of stuff
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 8:06 AM
> To: CD Product Support
> Subject: Re: Double crash
>
> Dennis:
>
> I received the radio but may I have a report of how was the situation with
> radio? Did you find something wrong?
>
> If you included something, remember I dont live in USA so it still in my
> office in FLorida.
>
> David

Thunder8A36

My Feedback: (5)

Well well well...................

What I can say¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡

looks like a long silent will follow the post.

Is really interesting and like to say WOW who cares¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡

Looks like manufactures just care how much money as fast as possible but they dont care when a mess is around.

Looks like the quality and waranty they sell to us is just a piece of paper.

Looks like some people lost their integrity.

Looks like NOBODY CARES.

Guys I believe this is something could happen to any one or already happened to someone but nobody try to get further.

Think about, is not just 10 grands I have lost, is a matter of ethic and ethic doesnt means to hide from the problems.

David

onewasp

I'm sorry about your loss. Virtually anyone who has been involved in this hobby for very long has had an expen$ive crash.
I do not represent Horizon or JR in any way whatsoever. I have had my 10X (Now gone as I went DX7) repaired by the same man------My experience was and is quite the opposite of yours.

I've been in this hobby/addiction for over 47 years and have delt with most of the major manufacturers during that extended period.
Of them all (literally from Bramco to Spektrum and JR) none could or did match the service I've received from Horizon.

I belong to several different clubs and that is the general opinion when discussing Radios and service. Why yours is different I can't begin to answer------nor do I/we have all the facts.
My purpose in posting this reply is simply to make clear that there is quite a different set of experiences compared to yours.

I hope you get everything worked out and continue to enjoy both the Hobby and Horizon's products------they have given me the best service and products that I could imagine and have always exceeded my expectations. I see no reason why your situation cannot have a similar "happy ending".

To a better future-----------------

Thunder8A36

My Feedback: (5)

My friend:

I´m not really blaming Horizon nor Dennis. I had an exelent service all time. I´m blaming a defective product wich came defective(in my opinion) from factory.

After the service the guys at Horizon did on my radio, was discovered that 2 module , repeat 2 MODULES NOT 1, were wrong tuned and what coincidence it cost 2 airplanes.

I´m agree with you were experiences are all diferents but again I neve can blame repairs department were Dennis is but at least have some kind of decency from Horizon customer department. Dennis just work there but someone or someones should be above him just watching how thing are going on.

What do you think pal?

By the way thanks very much for your words

David

Newc

For what it's worth, I think there may be some communication problems here. Starting with the fact that I doubt very seriously that the repair cost anywehere near '10 grands', which is $10,000!

And then there's the issue of who did work on the Tx in the interim between getting the 'new' radio and the time that the technician did the retuning. I doubt that Horizon did a major maladjustment of the two modules or that they modified the battery - both typically done by amateurs who think they know what they are doing with regard to radio modifications.

bruce88123

I can see a hand made one of a kind custom P-47 of the proper size being valued at that many Aussi dollars. Don't make light of the situations.
Go look at the pictures in his profile pages, it's a beautiful plane.

dsnyder

You will need to work with our service department for assistance.

Thunder8A36

My Feedback: (5)

Danny:

If you let me know were to go or were to send an e-mail, I will do it.

Newc:
As is quoted The batttery just has a bigger battery pack made by EMS Jomar, it was changed from 1100mh to 1500mHa and lower battery doesnt affect radio output unless you still flying the airplane beyond voltage alarm wich I think is below 9 volts (or 7.5volts).

Regarding your doubt about the cost of the airplane, just go to www.aerotechmodels.com include all things, airplane kit, engine, scale options, retract sistem and it will gives you 4500$, now add all electronics, a JR945, a new module, 3 battery packs, 1 Electrodynamics isolator and switches, 6 digital servos HITEC 5985 plus 4 microservos it gets you 1500$ more, so we are now in the 6000$. Next step is to hire a profesional builder with the experience for a contest finish quality like Top Gun and ask him how much will be for such project.ALso I forgot to include the custom paint scheme very uncomon due the lack of information and I bet is the first time you see such paint scheme.Just in paint materials and custom markings and colours you have easily 1000$ more.At this point I think 10 grands is almost the minimun acepted due the fact this big bird has to be put in a custom crate, shipped to Miami and reshiped to my country wich seem is in your same neigborhood, just the flying ticket is 1000$ more. And the last but very important thing, TIME, TIME IS CHEAP,time spent and personal effort to optimize all details be ready and perfect for such contest like TOP GUN.So if for you 2 years invested are nothing, will be great to know how do you give the rigth value of other people time.

. Newc: I respect you opinion besides I´m not agree at all but just to be clear with you and understand my point of wew: I have 100 workers under my responsability and I have to keep running all machines and a factory were maintance of all kind is my direct job, so I dont have to mess with a radio,a RX or whatewer involved just to save me 50$, it only means will problems in future. When a product came out from my production line in a wrong condition and for some reason reach a customer and a customer complains to me, I have to asume my responsability

Newc

As I stated, there's likely a miscommuniocation of some sort. For example, my reading of the first sentence in the first post led me to be,ieve that the radio repairs cost you "10 grands".

Were both crashes on the same radio, back to back - in other words without any successful flights between the first flight and the second one? Did you conduct range tests with the engine running prior to the flights which ended in crashes? Had you had any successful flights with the radio prior to the flights with crashes. My reason for asking is to try to determine if the modules were so far out of trim from the factory or if they had been adjusted by someone after the first (successful) flights?

Not trying to assess blame, just curious as to how something like this happens.

Thunder8A36

My Feedback: (5)

Well, about misscomunication is possible due my native language is not english and some facts could be lost during my writing.

The first crash was with a module channel 05 and RX 649, everithing goes fine with the airplane untill I get a little far away during standard left pattern giving some space to someone going to landing, airplane get in hold and just keep the fligth line tom y left hand untill crash.

After that accident I keep fling all my other airplanes with other modules in 72 band without any kind of trouble

For this particular airplane I didnt wamt to take the risk so I ordered directly a brand new module and RX from Horizon and shipped directly to AEROTECH MODELS, module in channel 00 and RX a 945 also in 00 dual conversion.The airplane had more than 30 fligths were just a couple of times I felt something unusual but due the windy condition were happened , after some checkings of radio voltage and RX voltage plus range nothing wrong come out, but the last fligth happened something in the same way as the first time, but I was in a landing patern and due the hig altitude I had during windleg I decide to make a wider turn until some altitude were lost before turn to final. As soon the airplane was descending at some moment I lost all control and he keeps fling strigth untill itself turn on his left due a stall and crashed.

I have 6 modules for that radio, 2 modules in 72 band channel 49 and 21, 2 modules in 50 Band channel 05 and 00 and 2 modules in european Band 35 Mhz.I use my 50 band for my more sophisticate airplanes due I´m basicaly alone in my area in ham band so no probabilities of radio interference from another radio and the area were I make my fligths and specialy this accident was in a speedway and I was the only person there besides a couple of friend and my father in law helping me, all there get shocked because we had also the time to speak each other showing what was happening before the crash.

What else I can say after that, I felt really frustate with myself and decide to make my efort to find wht was going on and is way I decided to ship my radio with DHL from my country (wich is not cheap but is the safest way) and send all my modules and RX involved plus my crystals and other modules and you know the result.

At least today I received an e-mail from Dennis telling me that my case was sent to the service manager and we will se how they will proceede.

Thanks verymuch for understand my point of view and excuse me again for my weak english.

David

Newc

David - I now understand the situation better. Don't apologize for your English as it is much better than my Spanish!

Pile-O-Wood

Thunder8A36, I think you said the new module was on channel 00 but a different model receiver, is this correct? If so I would consider some form of outside interferance as this happened on the same freq. and you have had no problems on other modules on different frequences.

Thunder8A36

My Feedback: (5)

There are 2 modules in two differents channels 00 and 05 but same band 50 Mhz and yes two different receivers but both in PCM, the only differencei one is single conversion and dual conversion the other. The crashed happened in two different places far away 100 miles each one. The only coincidence I could find is that both modules are new and both were out of frequency before they were checked by Horizon, so as I know it affects the range also.

David

Thunder8A36

My Feedback: (5)

What a wonderfull silent¡¡¡¡¡¡ we should rename the post after the movie LOL



[img][/img]

dsnyder

Our service center manager has been trying to reach you, leaving messages, and your receptionist at work told him you were out of town. As I've stated, this is an issue that you will need to work with our service center. I'm closing this thread down as anything further will need to be handled by our service center.