stoni1

Hi Guys

I wonder if any one can help me.

Ive just purchased a new JR DSX9 and want to programme my bobcat with CROW flaps to slow her right down.

Being a life long Futaba guy up untill now, I can do this really easy on my old Futaba 9C but am struggling on this new TX

I know their is butterfly in the sailplane menu but this uses the throttle and gear channels which I need as I have turbine and need dedicated throttle channel and retracts etc

I guess that I will need to use P-Mixes to achieve this in the ACRO menu so wondered if any one has done this on their Dx911 or DSX9 etc and could give me the settings they used please.

BuschBarber

My Feedback: (2)

I have a couple of JR XP9303 radios which are the same or similar to the DSX9. You need to go into the Device Select menu and Inhibit the channels that you intend to Mate or Mix. Then, go into the Wing Type menu in the row titled Mate, pick the channel that you want to Mate with Aile, Elev, Rud, or Flap. Next, go to a Pmix and set up a mix that will give you Flaps Down with Aileron Up (I believe that is Crow or Butterfly).

There may be other ways to do this, as well. I know that was the definition of Crow with the H9 UltraStick.

stoni1

Thanks for the swift repy

I tried your method, alieron and aux 2, flap and aux 3, but when i selected the P- mix, flap-alieron the ailieron moved its centre to full down almost, I mucked about with moving the horn to centre and also the mix points but didnt get any satisfaction really...would you have a step by step guide??? for a complete beginner on JR radio.

Also I considered using the land option to operate flaps and elevator then thought about maybe a P-mix to get the alieron to rise but gave up on that as well, just no where enough programming experiance with this set. I thought when I BROUGHT THIS SET I could go straight to sailplane and set up butterfly like my ff9 but as said before it uses the throttle and gear channels which i need as I have retracts and turbine, Ive not even started thinking about the 2 rudders and the steering, hope i will have enough channels and switches on this 9 channel set...HELP!!!!!!!!

BuschBarber

My Feedback: (2)

When you have an aircraft with Flaps and you want to use the Tx to mix channels for Ail, Elev, and Flaps, you can do the following:
Ail mates with Ch7 (Aux2). Elev mates with Ch8 (Aux3). Flap mates with Ch5 (Gear). If you have Retracts, you can use Aux4 for that.

In one of the Pmix's, you will have Flaps as the Master and Ail as the Slave. You can set it up on a switch so that you can have both Flaps go Down and both Ailerons go Up when you flip the switch. Make it a different switch than the Flap Switch so that when you are Not using Crow, just the Flaps go Down when you flip the Flap Switch.

I find that when you have a servo on each Elev half or a servo on each Flap half, you always need to Reverse the servo on one of the halves. This is easily done by putting each servo on a separate channel. You could also use a JR Matchbox for each pair of servos, but that adds extra cost. I Never use Reversing Y Harnesses as the Neutral never seems to stay put for long and constantly needs readjusting. Switching the servo arm to the other side, for one of the halves, usually changes the Geometry and you end up with a difference in the throw between servos

If you use Hitec Digital servos, you can Program them for a number of different parameters, including Neutral, End Points, Speed, Deadband, Direction, etc.

The JR Matchbox lets you connect up to 4 servos and match them for Direction, Neutral, and End Points. You can then use the Tx to mix that with something else if you need to.

AWorrest

My Feedback: (5)

While I generally agree with what BuschBarber wrote, I have a couple of comments and one point of disagreement. In the DeviceSEL menu, you may find the programming easier if you leave the FLAP output as SYS. rather than ACT. That way in the Function list you will have the FLAP SYS. menu. Otherwise, you will have to play with the flaps sub trim and travel.

In the Wing TYPE menu, you will have to set the WING to NORMAL and not FLAPERON if you want discreet flaps and not just only flaperons.

When you do the Prog.MIX, you must mix FLAP into FPRN (flaperon). If you mix FLAP into AILE, then as you move the flap switch, one aileron will go up and the other down. In Crow you want both ailerons to go in the same direction.

This whole thing would be easier if there was a 4-aileron option on the Wing TYPE menu. There isn't one on the 9303 and probably not on your transmitter either.

Allan

BuschBarber

My Feedback: (2)

If you Mate Aux2 to Aileron and Gear to Flap, and then use a Pmix to mix Aileron with Flap, are you saying that the Pmix ignores the mated channels (in this case the Aux2 and Gear channels)? I guess I thought that when 2 channels were Mated, they were treated as as one in a Pmix.

What exactly does FLPRN represent if you are not using the Flapperon Wing Type?

Does FLPRN represent the combination of Aileron mated to another channel and AILV represent the combination of Elevator mated to another channel?

Thanks for the help!!

BuschBarber

My Feedback: (2)

I just experimented with my XP9303. When I set up Pmix 6 to mix Ail (Master) and Flap (Slave), and then go to Monitor, all four channels move together, when I move the Aileron stick, not just the Aileron channel and the Flap channel. The Flap and Gear channel also move with the Flap switch

When I change the Slave channel to FLPRN, the Right Aileron only moves from Neutral to Right and the Left Aileron only moves from Neutral to Left. The Flap and Gear channel do not move with the Aileron stick, only with the Flap Switch.

I am not sure what switch is assigned to turn the mix On and Off. I tried the Mix switch.

BuschBarber

My Feedback: (2)

OK!! I assigned the Mix switch to turn the mix On and Off.

I still get no movement of the Flaps when FLPRN is set as the Slave channel in the Pmix.

AWorrest

My Feedback: (5)

Rich,

Something like that will happen if you mix too much flap into the flaperons. The flaperon command will take precedence over the aileron. On my transmitter the ailerons still move after the flaperon input. On the FLAP SYS. menu I put the flap value at 100% for this exercise. For the FLAP to FPRN mix I used 64%. With the aileron stick hard over and the flap fully deployed, one aileron is hard over, while the other moves about 15% away from neutral. Normally the ailerons will move +/- 100% with no flaperon input.

For proper Crow action with flaperon, one aileron should move in the opposite direction from the other. If both aileron servos move clockwise (or counter-clockwise) all you will get is a roll. With the aileron stick neutral, the FLAP into FPRN command will move each aileron beyond the 50% tic mark. Actually I'm slightly surprised the blip didn't move more. For this discussion I'm using the monitor on my X9303. I have physically used this setup with servos and observed their movement.

One additional thought: If anyone should be reading this thread, it should be noted that the Crow setups that Rich and I are discussing are applicable for powered planes. The amount of flaperon action will be limited. The ailerons will move upwards enough to provide wing washout for additional stability on windy days. The flaps will have enough downward movement to provide additional lift. If you want to turn the flaperons and flaps into air brakes as is done on sailplanes, then additional measures must be taken. Control horns and servo arms will have to be raked. The subtrims will have to be offset. The servo travel end limits have to be changed.

Allan

stoni1

Thanks guys I took both your advise and Ive mastered it!!!..now got full crow- Ive also used the LAND function to operate the crow on the throttle for go rounds, so alls good.

One other problem ive encountered is with the rudder and steering. I have 2 rudders so 2 rudder servos and 1 steering servo for the front wheel steering, I only have 1 rudder channel and aux 3 left as aux 4 will be used for retracts. I have thought that i could use a revering y lead on the rudders and use the aux3 for the steering but ive heard that the centres keep changing on these type of y leads. If I use the two channels left for the rudders and mix these too get right direction then do a further mix rudder to steering i will not be able to reduce the travel on the steering as it will take the command from the rudder master which I will need maximum movement on, basically I think I need another 3 channels which i dont have- any magic programming I can do to sort this out?

BuschBarber

My Feedback: (2)

At some point, with more complicated setups like yours, you can run out of channels, which limits your mixing choices. You could always buy a 12X or a Channel Expander. I have had great success with the JR Matchbox. It is a much better choice than a Reversing Y Harness. Use the Matchbox to connect both Rudders to the Rudder Channel. You could even connect the Nosewheel to the same Matchbox. I prefer to have the Nosewheel on a separate channel so I can easily Trim it from the Tx and Increase or Decrease the Throw, when needed.

BuschBarber

My Feedback: (2)

Could you explain to me exactly what Crow is supposed to do? Perhaps I am misunderstanding what is supposed to happen when Crow is deployed.

When I had an H9 UltraStick, the manual described Crow as a condition where at the flip of a switch, both Flaps would be deployed Down and both Ailerons would be deployed Up. This suggests that when Crow is enabled, the Neutral for the Ailerons is shifted Upwards, like Spoilers. Is that what we are trying to do here?

I set up the Aileron to FLPRN mix, at +64% and -64%. When I go to the Monitor and flip the Mix switch, the Ailerons move from Neutral to Full Deflection, in one direction, and from Neutral to Partial Deflection in the other direction. The Flaps do not move at all with the Mix switch, just with the Flap switch.

Am I missing something?

I am just looking at the Monitor as I do not have a plane in front of me to observe how the Ailerons and Flaps are moving.

The Neutral for the Ailerons never changes when I move the Mix switch.

stoni1

Yes the flaps deploy downwards to increase lift and the aleiron deploy up to partley counter the nose down, decrease lift and give the tips wash out to help slow speed stall, all in all it allows you to desend steeply without building to much speed so ideal for restricted landings on small strips.

I have not mixed ail to flap I have done as was suggested by Aworrest and P mixed flap to fprn keeping flap as SYS in Device select and it works kool. My setting in P-MIX 1 are sw select-MIX, point0 +60, point1 INH, point2 INH, point3 +35, point4 INH, point5 INH, point6 +7-In the Flaps Sys I have Auto land on ACT at throttle 70 and the flap at Norm U100%, Mid U40%, Land D100%, this allows me to use the Mix switch to come in and out of the crow mix and the crow go off on 70% throttle if I need them to for an aborted landing, flaps are still on the flap switch as normal

Thanks for the info on the match box I will check them out.

BuschBarber

My Feedback: (2)

Thanks!!

I was mixing Aileron to FLPRN instead of Flap to FLPRN. Now, when I flip the Mix switch, the Neutral for Ailerons shifts Up, except when the Flaps switch is in the Up position.

When you flip the Mix switch, don't you want the Ailerons to move Up and the Flaps to Drop, without having to flip the Flap switch, as well?

stoni1

I think that is why I adjusted the point6 to +7, this keeps the ailerons neutral when you flip the mix switch and then when you move the flap switch 0to1 and 1 to 2 position the ailerons move up to point3 and point0 I think-but now very confused...hehe, It works any how

BuschBarber

My Feedback: (2)

I see!! So the Aileron movement Up is tied to the Flap switch unless you turn off the Mix switch.

Now it totally makes sens to me!!

Thanks!!

BuschBarber

My Feedback: (2)

Are you using Pmix 1 or Pmix 2? I believe those are the only Pmix's with the capability of setting Curves

Also, I could not find any reference in the 9303 manual to FPRN, AILV, and FROL. Do you know where that is explained in detail? I believe ALIV revers to Ailevator. Futaba's 8 and 9 channel computer radios had a program, called Ailevator, to mix Dual Elevators and also make them work like Ailerons (Tailerons for Jets). I have no clue what FROL is.

stoni1

P-mix 1, -regarding the other question I really do not have a clue as im just learning myself sorry!, Ailv may be in the wing type under DELTA?, and I think FROL is something to do with aileron to flap mixing?

BuschBarber

My Feedback: (2)

Ailevator is the term for Dual Elevator mixing just like Flapperons is the term for mixing Dual Ailerons.

I am guessing AILV is used in the same way that FPRN is used.

Perhaps someone else reading this thread can comment.

With my Futaba 8AUPS and Futaba 9C, you would Activate the Ailevator program and by default, it would mix Elevator and Ch8. You could couple the Elevator halves with Aileron, or in some jets, I have seen it used to eliminate the Ailerons and use the Flying Stabs as Tailerons. I just used it for the purpose of mixing Dual Elevator halves.