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Which JR\Spectrum receiver did you crash with?
08-19-2010, 02:44 PM
#176
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Location: Cape L\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'Agulhas, SOUTH AFRICA
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RE: Which JR\Spectrum receiver did you crash with?
Could it be that being in DIRECT line of sight between 2 or more microwave telecommunication stations (Tx dishes) cause the problems?Possibly close to another type of transmitter (marine, aeronautical or perhaps radar station).My 35 MHz system that I'm phasing out went blank when the Cape Agulhas lighthouse talk by radio to the ships - I live about 500 yards from it. Looks like independant of frequency, you just get blanked out by a powerful marine transmitter. We don't have the problem 15 km away where we fly.
There's elswhere in the main forum a 2 year old thread "2.4GHz jammer" that came to life. How relevant it is I don't know, but it is interesting if it is indeed possible.
General discussion
What about other makes of 2.4 GHz Tx/Rx gear? Like Futaba, Hitec and now I see there are some Chinese made 2.4 radios on the market as well.
I've seen some lively discussions on those forums too....... What is yourexperiencewith them?, or is only JR/Spektrum problems being reported?
What is your experience with the other brands?
Let us have a balanced discussionto identify the problems.
I have 10 x 3 different Spektrum receivers on DX-7 and been flying for about a year and not had any problems or crashes. I did had 1 occasion where I thought there was a problem but that was a different brand switch harnass that was not making good contact.
If I'm not mistaken (I apologise if I do), the Spektrum DX-7 transmitter in the USis 1W whereas in Europe, RSA and Far East it is only 100mW. Don't know why it is - but could it be that a number of more powerful Tx's together cause this problem? Whereas mobile phones which are much less powerful don't do it?
I'm not defending/attacking any brand radio, just wondering, as if there are indeed problems, then I would be throwing money in the water by converting all my planes to JR Spektrum.
Bundubasher
08-28-2010, 03:56 PM
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RE: Which JR\Spectrum receiver did you crash with?
This is an interesting poll for several reasons. I am not trying to start anything, espically a flame war. I realize there are VERY good pilots responding to this thread.
Please don’t take this post wrong. I am a Team JR guy, so I am going to be discounted by most. On top of that I fly sailplanes, the molded carbon and kevlar kind so I am always concerned about my radios. I fly 2.4 on a 9303 and 11x and use the 921 and 9300 receivers. Sailplane installations are a disaster. Receiver, antennas and batteries are stuffed, often crammed, into a small space with wires strained and bent at impossible angles. Even with these electrical disaster installations, I have never crashed a plane on 2.4 but lost several on 72 mhz.
As a poll, because it simply identifies receivers and if you crashed on them bypasses if the cause may have been somewhere else. I realize that may have been your intent, and if it was, I apoligize for this response. The poll does not make mention of the pilots skill level, nor does it make mention of how or if a determination of the failure mode was made. (supported or speculation) The missing element here is what caused the failure. (I am pretty sure that every club has a pilot that seems to have more than his share of crashes and that individual always blames it on radio failure of some kind.)
When a plane crashes the first assumption is the receiver. Individuals witnessing the crash start talking about receiver failure and how they had a similar problem before anyone even gets to the downed plane. When a through autopsy is done and a problem is found, the receiver is usually the last of the possible issues. If the source of the problem cannot be determined, then everyone assumes it was the receiver. So the following are some ideas of what else it can be and might be included in a future poll.
Sometimes, Pilots will pull the receiver out of plane with problems and replace it with a new receiver and the problems seem to go away. But this method of trouble shooting is incomplete. You may have simply created a better connection in a bad wire or plug than you had before.
The proper method of trouble shooting is to take the receiver out of the jittery plane and put it in a different plane with a good track record. If the jitters are now in the different plane, you can now assume the receiver is bad and throw it away. How many people do this? None that I know of. (Pulling a receiver from a perfectly good plane and substituting the suspect receiver and then putting the original receiver back in is a real pain in the ….)
There is a current series of threads dealing with 4 and 5 cell packs and blaming jitters on voltage issues. All the receivers out there will operate on a much higher voltage than 5 cells. There is rarely a discussion of a problem with the battery itself. Try flexing the pack and watch what happens. Move a stick to a corner of the stick movement and hold it. Flex it again. If flexing causes some unwanted movement in the servos, throw the battery pack away and insert a new one. I believe the single greatest cause of a crashed plane or interment movement is a bad battery or bad wiring between the battery and the receiver. Everyone checks the wiring but few, very few check the battery itself.
Battery failure can happen in strange ways. If it is a brand new battery, it could easily be the culprit (poor construction or quality control). Bad charge or an old battery are also an issue. In the pacific northwest we take the winter off. Crashes in the spring are higher than in the rest of the year. Most, write it off to bad thumbs, but new batteries in new aircraft or old batteries left discharged over the winter are a more likely problem. (does anyone check their battery charger?) I have seen a battery wire held in place with the shrink wrap! The underlying solder joint looked good, but pulled away easily.
Replacement of the wiring harness and or the offending servo will often solve the problem. Pay special attention to the wire from the battery to the receiver and from the receiver to the offending servo. Often is quicker to make up a new harness that to trouble shoot the suspect one. A single strand of copper between the signal wire and the ground wire and it’s all over. I owned a plane with unexplainable glitches on 72 mhz. Finally, I replaced the entire wiring harness and the problem was simply gone. I looked over the removed wiring harness for hours and never could isolate the problem.
There are many other potential problems. Bad on/off switch, frayed wire where plugs are often pulled apart, poor solder technique, broken wire inside the insulation, short in a plug, wire pulled free from a crimped connection (every servo plug out there has this potential problem and yes it has happened to me) leaving an intermittent connection, mechanical issues, jammed elevator when a loose piece of ballast wedged itself between the end of the servo arm and the sidewall with full up elevator, servo arm failure, servo arm coming off the servo when the screw was never installed, loose servo tray, placing a 2mm clevis on a 2-56 threaded push rod (screws on but if pulled hard will slide apart) failure of glued coupling to control wire or pushrods, flying too far away and many many more.
Another one, is untrimmed flight modes. Pilots new to flight modes will often trim one mode on the bench and not realize that the other need to be trimmed to match before the first flight. My favorite one is the plane that needs a LOT of elevator trim in that first flight and the pilot forgets to reset the other trims to match. They fly cross on landing, switch into landing mode and the plane noses into the ground too fast to recover. Flexible programming can easily lead to programming issues that result in a downed aircraft.
Sorry to trumpet a little, but let’s consider the following.
I had a physics professor state, “someday, your kids are going to ask you how does a light bulb work and there is a simple answer, it’s magic. You see, no one has ever actually seen an electron. Therefore, it must be magic.â€
Magic is powerful. A recent club pilot just piled-in a new molded plane from 400 feet. He simply brushes off that piled-in receiver and uses it in his next $1500 sailplane. When the second plane went in, the pilot was heard to say, “well, it (the receiver) looked good to me! I mean it wasn’t crushed or anything!†(when you crash hard, just throw it away!)
Another issue was solved when we checked the solder joints on another plane that piled-in. After pulling back the shrink wrap we discovered that the pilot had used CA instead of solder. The CA acted as a perfect insulator around all the individual wires making the connection intermittent.
An electron is a really really small thing. Way too small for us to see with a magnifying glass at the field. That means that a gap wide enough to interrupt the flow of electrons is only a few electrons across! The professor was right. For most of us, if we cannot see it, it must not exist.
So remember this formula when you experience a glitch. One gap, so small it cannot be seen, in the wrong place, plus, the wrong time, equals a dead aircraft. All of us could pay more attention to the ENTIRE electrical system of the aircraft.
It is virtually impossible to construct a meaningful poll without an effort to first exclude the radio so all the other possibilities are eliminated. It does not matter what brand of radio you are flying.
Again, I am sorry if this response seems off topic. Thanks for your time.
Sherman Knight
Team JR
Please don’t take this post wrong. I am a Team JR guy, so I am going to be discounted by most. On top of that I fly sailplanes, the molded carbon and kevlar kind so I am always concerned about my radios. I fly 2.4 on a 9303 and 11x and use the 921 and 9300 receivers. Sailplane installations are a disaster. Receiver, antennas and batteries are stuffed, often crammed, into a small space with wires strained and bent at impossible angles. Even with these electrical disaster installations, I have never crashed a plane on 2.4 but lost several on 72 mhz.
As a poll, because it simply identifies receivers and if you crashed on them bypasses if the cause may have been somewhere else. I realize that may have been your intent, and if it was, I apoligize for this response. The poll does not make mention of the pilots skill level, nor does it make mention of how or if a determination of the failure mode was made. (supported or speculation) The missing element here is what caused the failure. (I am pretty sure that every club has a pilot that seems to have more than his share of crashes and that individual always blames it on radio failure of some kind.)
When a plane crashes the first assumption is the receiver. Individuals witnessing the crash start talking about receiver failure and how they had a similar problem before anyone even gets to the downed plane. When a through autopsy is done and a problem is found, the receiver is usually the last of the possible issues. If the source of the problem cannot be determined, then everyone assumes it was the receiver. So the following are some ideas of what else it can be and might be included in a future poll.
Sometimes, Pilots will pull the receiver out of plane with problems and replace it with a new receiver and the problems seem to go away. But this method of trouble shooting is incomplete. You may have simply created a better connection in a bad wire or plug than you had before.
The proper method of trouble shooting is to take the receiver out of the jittery plane and put it in a different plane with a good track record. If the jitters are now in the different plane, you can now assume the receiver is bad and throw it away. How many people do this? None that I know of. (Pulling a receiver from a perfectly good plane and substituting the suspect receiver and then putting the original receiver back in is a real pain in the ….)
There is a current series of threads dealing with 4 and 5 cell packs and blaming jitters on voltage issues. All the receivers out there will operate on a much higher voltage than 5 cells. There is rarely a discussion of a problem with the battery itself. Try flexing the pack and watch what happens. Move a stick to a corner of the stick movement and hold it. Flex it again. If flexing causes some unwanted movement in the servos, throw the battery pack away and insert a new one. I believe the single greatest cause of a crashed plane or interment movement is a bad battery or bad wiring between the battery and the receiver. Everyone checks the wiring but few, very few check the battery itself.
Battery failure can happen in strange ways. If it is a brand new battery, it could easily be the culprit (poor construction or quality control). Bad charge or an old battery are also an issue. In the pacific northwest we take the winter off. Crashes in the spring are higher than in the rest of the year. Most, write it off to bad thumbs, but new batteries in new aircraft or old batteries left discharged over the winter are a more likely problem. (does anyone check their battery charger?) I have seen a battery wire held in place with the shrink wrap! The underlying solder joint looked good, but pulled away easily.
Replacement of the wiring harness and or the offending servo will often solve the problem. Pay special attention to the wire from the battery to the receiver and from the receiver to the offending servo. Often is quicker to make up a new harness that to trouble shoot the suspect one. A single strand of copper between the signal wire and the ground wire and it’s all over. I owned a plane with unexplainable glitches on 72 mhz. Finally, I replaced the entire wiring harness and the problem was simply gone. I looked over the removed wiring harness for hours and never could isolate the problem.
There are many other potential problems. Bad on/off switch, frayed wire where plugs are often pulled apart, poor solder technique, broken wire inside the insulation, short in a plug, wire pulled free from a crimped connection (every servo plug out there has this potential problem and yes it has happened to me) leaving an intermittent connection, mechanical issues, jammed elevator when a loose piece of ballast wedged itself between the end of the servo arm and the sidewall with full up elevator, servo arm failure, servo arm coming off the servo when the screw was never installed, loose servo tray, placing a 2mm clevis on a 2-56 threaded push rod (screws on but if pulled hard will slide apart) failure of glued coupling to control wire or pushrods, flying too far away and many many more.
Another one, is untrimmed flight modes. Pilots new to flight modes will often trim one mode on the bench and not realize that the other need to be trimmed to match before the first flight. My favorite one is the plane that needs a LOT of elevator trim in that first flight and the pilot forgets to reset the other trims to match. They fly cross on landing, switch into landing mode and the plane noses into the ground too fast to recover. Flexible programming can easily lead to programming issues that result in a downed aircraft.
Sorry to trumpet a little, but let’s consider the following.
I had a physics professor state, “someday, your kids are going to ask you how does a light bulb work and there is a simple answer, it’s magic. You see, no one has ever actually seen an electron. Therefore, it must be magic.â€
Magic is powerful. A recent club pilot just piled-in a new molded plane from 400 feet. He simply brushes off that piled-in receiver and uses it in his next $1500 sailplane. When the second plane went in, the pilot was heard to say, “well, it (the receiver) looked good to me! I mean it wasn’t crushed or anything!†(when you crash hard, just throw it away!)
Another issue was solved when we checked the solder joints on another plane that piled-in. After pulling back the shrink wrap we discovered that the pilot had used CA instead of solder. The CA acted as a perfect insulator around all the individual wires making the connection intermittent.
An electron is a really really small thing. Way too small for us to see with a magnifying glass at the field. That means that a gap wide enough to interrupt the flow of electrons is only a few electrons across! The professor was right. For most of us, if we cannot see it, it must not exist.
So remember this formula when you experience a glitch. One gap, so small it cannot be seen, in the wrong place, plus, the wrong time, equals a dead aircraft. All of us could pay more attention to the ENTIRE electrical system of the aircraft.
It is virtually impossible to construct a meaningful poll without an effort to first exclude the radio so all the other possibilities are eliminated. It does not matter what brand of radio you are flying.
Again, I am sorry if this response seems off topic. Thanks for your time.
Sherman Knight
Team JR
08-28-2010, 05:03 PM
#178
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RE: Which JR\Spectrum receiver did you crash with?
Duworm,
That is why I did not vote in the poll, I have had a few crashes, none of which were unexplained. If I had a crash that was unexplained then I would put here.
Here are some of my personal examples that address some of your post
Crash 1 - 82" piper cub AR7000 RX
The cause of this crash was a catastrophic power failure resulting in over 8 minutes of uncontrolled flight at full throttle( or near full throttle), before finally crashing.
Upon examining what was left of the plane it was discovered that the power switch was non functional the RX was knocked out of it's case but still worked. There are those who say "the switch was damaged in the crash", but that ignores the fact that either a complete power failure or a complete RX failure were the only ways to duplicate the symptoms of what actually happened. With the combination of the symptoms and the analysis of the crash it is VERY difficult to blame the radio for this crash.
Crash 2 - Pulse XT AR7000 RX
Flying in 15mph+ wind performing a low altitude rolling circle, the plane crashed immediately after turning downwind in knife edge flight. Again there are those who blame my radio, but how can this be justified? I knew I screwed up as soon as it happened, but there are witnesses who are convinced my radio was to blame. Since the crash happened immediately following a downwind turn in slow knife edge flight, I challenge anyone to legitimately blame this crash on the radio or RX.
Lockout - Ultrasport 1000 (no name 2100 mah Nimh 5 cell RX pack)
While starting into a high speed loop, all control was lost. The plane completed the loop, the engine went to idle and control came back. I immediately landed the airplane and checked the battery. Testing it with the Hobbico expanded scale voltmeter showed it as fine, I did not fly it again until I tested further. Upon testing the battery pack with a computer charger it was found that the battery voltage would drop below the required operating voltage with only a 1/2C load (1 amp). I also discovered that the pack would no longer cycle at anything more than about a 1/4C rate, at this point I determined that the lockout was not a lockout but a brownout due to a faulty battery pack. I am lucky to still have my US 1000!
That is why I did not vote in the poll, I have had a few crashes, none of which were unexplained. If I had a crash that was unexplained then I would put here.
Here are some of my personal examples that address some of your post
Crash 1 - 82" piper cub AR7000 RX
The cause of this crash was a catastrophic power failure resulting in over 8 minutes of uncontrolled flight at full throttle( or near full throttle), before finally crashing.
Upon examining what was left of the plane it was discovered that the power switch was non functional the RX was knocked out of it's case but still worked. There are those who say "the switch was damaged in the crash", but that ignores the fact that either a complete power failure or a complete RX failure were the only ways to duplicate the symptoms of what actually happened. With the combination of the symptoms and the analysis of the crash it is VERY difficult to blame the radio for this crash.
Crash 2 - Pulse XT AR7000 RX
Flying in 15mph+ wind performing a low altitude rolling circle, the plane crashed immediately after turning downwind in knife edge flight. Again there are those who blame my radio, but how can this be justified? I knew I screwed up as soon as it happened, but there are witnesses who are convinced my radio was to blame. Since the crash happened immediately following a downwind turn in slow knife edge flight, I challenge anyone to legitimately blame this crash on the radio or RX.
Lockout - Ultrasport 1000 (no name 2100 mah Nimh 5 cell RX pack)
While starting into a high speed loop, all control was lost. The plane completed the loop, the engine went to idle and control came back. I immediately landed the airplane and checked the battery. Testing it with the Hobbico expanded scale voltmeter showed it as fine, I did not fly it again until I tested further. Upon testing the battery pack with a computer charger it was found that the battery voltage would drop below the required operating voltage with only a 1/2C load (1 amp). I also discovered that the pack would no longer cycle at anything more than about a 1/4C rate, at this point I determined that the lockout was not a lockout but a brownout due to a faulty battery pack. I am lucky to still have my US 1000!
09-19-2010, 09:44 PM
#179
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RE: Which JR\Spectrum receiver did you crash with?
I recently sent back an AR7000 because the throttle port did'nt work they sent me a new that doesn't work at all. I also bought at new AR6200 last week and that throttle port doesn't work either! I tried different servos and a different battery
09-19-2010, 11:23 PM
#180
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RE: Which JR\Spectrum receiver did you crash with?
I recently sent back an AR7000 because the throttle port did'nt work they sent me a new that doesn't work at all. I also bought at new AR6200 last week and that throttle port doesn't work either! I tried different servos and a different battery
Hmmmmmmmmm. There is very little information here to help you diagnose the issue. From the description you gave, I am assuming that the first AR7000 was properly bound and only the throttle port does not seem to work. If the throttle port does not work on two different receivers, then it might not be a receiver, but an issue in the radio. Have you tried a receiver you know has a working throttle servo output? Or borrowed one from a friend to see if it will work on another servo.
Have you taken the receivers that have a problem and bound them to a different radio? If the other radio works, it might be the radio.
Is the throttle servo controlled or ESC controlled. If there is an ESC, try pulling it out and inserting a servo to see if the port is not working. If the servo works, then the ESC is most likely the problem. The following is from the AR7000 manual. “To bind an aircraft with an ESC that powers the receiver through the throttle channel, insert the bind plug into the BATT/BIND port in the receiver and the throttle lead into the throttle port.†Unfortunately, with the brief description, it is nearly impossible to tell.
Does the ESC need programming?
For the replacement AR7000, was the satellite receiver plugged in? If not, plug it in and re-bind. I am assuming you used a different battery. Do the blinking bind lights come on during binding?
Without more information, this is about the best I can do.
Sorry,
Sherman Knight
Team JR
Hmmmmmmmmm. There is very little information here to help you diagnose the issue. From the description you gave, I am assuming that the first AR7000 was properly bound and only the throttle port does not seem to work. If the throttle port does not work on two different receivers, then it might not be a receiver, but an issue in the radio. Have you tried a receiver you know has a working throttle servo output? Or borrowed one from a friend to see if it will work on another servo.
Have you taken the receivers that have a problem and bound them to a different radio? If the other radio works, it might be the radio.
Is the throttle servo controlled or ESC controlled. If there is an ESC, try pulling it out and inserting a servo to see if the port is not working. If the servo works, then the ESC is most likely the problem. The following is from the AR7000 manual. “To bind an aircraft with an ESC that powers the receiver through the throttle channel, insert the bind plug into the BATT/BIND port in the receiver and the throttle lead into the throttle port.†Unfortunately, with the brief description, it is nearly impossible to tell.
Does the ESC need programming?
For the replacement AR7000, was the satellite receiver plugged in? If not, plug it in and re-bind. I am assuming you used a different battery. Do the blinking bind lights come on during binding?
Without more information, this is about the best I can do.
Sorry,
Sherman Knight
Team JR
09-20-2010, 06:33 AM
#181
RE: Which JR\Spectrum receiver did you crash with?
ORIGINAL: Bundubasher
I'm not defending/attacking any brand radio, just wondering, as if there are indeed problems, then I would be throwing money in the water by converting all my planes to JR Spektrum.
Bundubasher,
I'm not defending/attacking any brand radio, just wondering, as if there are indeed problems, then I would be throwing money in the water by converting all my planes to JR Spektrum.
Bundubasher,
So far, I have ZERO issues with JR/Spektrum. I fly at a wide open 'rf friendly' field (houses, cell towers, etc well over a mile away), as well as off of the golf course by my house (houses, cell phones, garage door openers, etc, a 'noisy' environment) No issues at all.
I do setup my planes as best I can: keep the main rx and satellites as far away as possible from ESC's, gasser ignition boxes, servos, etc, and orient the satellite antenna in different axis. I make sure my batteries have a good charge, don't 'squeeze in' one more flight before a re-charge, don't use 4.8v packs (A123's are manna from heaven)...well, you get the picture.
Now, after all that, I read here on RCU horror stories about the x9303 and DSM2, then another post that is nothing but positive. So, I am concerned that there is some unexplained JR/Spek DSM2 gremlin out there. While it's no fun losing any jet, it's easier to stomach losing a $150 foamie than a $7000 turbine jet due to weak 2.4 technology. Given all this, I am not sure if I'll use the x9303/AR9100 in my jet.
09-20-2010, 04:23 PM
#182
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RE: Which JR\Spectrum receiver did you crash with?
Sherman, Thanks for your help, after reading your reply on the AR7000 and AR6200 throttle port problem I bound them on different model channels (same transmitter) and the trottles worked. Thanks again, that's what makes this sight so great. This winter I will send the transmitter back. Bill
09-20-2010, 07:04 PM
#183
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RE: Which JR\Spectrum receiver did you crash with?
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm. Just another example of not enough information for troubleshooting. I had assumed that you had bound each receiver to a different model number. The JR model match feature will require you to rebind a new (or different) receiver, even if it is the same brand and model to its own model number.
From your latest post, It sounds like the first program, for some reason, switched off or disabled the throttle port. There is several ways to do that in the programming. When you bound to a different model mumber, that condition was changed.
Glad you got it fixed.
Sherman Knight
Team JR
From your latest post, It sounds like the first program, for some reason, switched off or disabled the throttle port. There is several ways to do that in the programming. When you bound to a different model mumber, that condition was changed.
Glad you got it fixed.
Sherman Knight
Team JR
09-24-2010, 12:39 PM
#184
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RE: Which JR\Spectrum receiver did you crash with?
This thread reminds me of:
Give a simple, one word answer, Yes or No:
Have you stopped beating your wife ?
I have been flying R/C for a long time and have crashed a lot of airplanes. There were maybe a half dozen times I know I had a receiver failure. That is when the crystal failed and every time it happened on the ground. I have never lost a plane that I know was caused by a receiver problem. I did lose three planes due to a transmitter problem.
I know of two major problems with the 2.4 gig stuff:
[ul][*]Spread Spektrum low receiver voltage slow reboot [*]Futaba GUID reset to zero
[/ul]
In both cases the problems were dealt with promptly.
To repeat rumors that DSM2 is fundamentally flawed is irresponsible.
I wore red socks today and my plane crashed.
Give a simple, one word answer, Yes or No:
Have you stopped beating your wife ?
I have been flying R/C for a long time and have crashed a lot of airplanes. There were maybe a half dozen times I know I had a receiver failure. That is when the crystal failed and every time it happened on the ground. I have never lost a plane that I know was caused by a receiver problem. I did lose three planes due to a transmitter problem.
I know of two major problems with the 2.4 gig stuff:
[ul][*]Spread Spektrum low receiver voltage slow reboot [*]Futaba GUID reset to zero
[/ul]
In both cases the problems were dealt with promptly.
To repeat rumors that DSM2 is fundamentally flawed is irresponsible.
I wore red socks today and my plane crashed.
09-26-2010, 09:19 AM
#185
RE: Which JR\Spectrum receiver did you crash with?
Well, I've had enough...I just bought a 12FG to use with my L-39. I'm just not comfortable staying with the x9303/AR9100 setup. I absolutely love this combo, but I have no confidence with it in a $8000 jet anymore. It all boils down to that.
Clearly, this debate can, and will, go back and forth ad nauseum, but I'm done with it. My $.02-worth is fly the radio/receiver setup that you trust.
Clearly, this debate can, and will, go back and forth ad nauseum, but I'm done with it. My $.02-worth is fly the radio/receiver setup that you trust.
10-11-2010, 12:15 PM
#186
RE: Which JR\Spectrum receiver did you crash with?
I have to chime in here... I witnessed 4 spektrum/jr crashes this weekend.. And thats a normal weekend!![:@] One incident the plane locked out and would recover and continue to lock out and almost took out several people at our club.. Before the usual battery voltage comments and ect. are stated every battery passed the loaded voltage test and was 6 volts.The dsm2 technology is a flawed or outdated design and they ARE NOT going to tell you about it.. Since every futaba guy early on switched over to spektrum and they were first out they have a LOT of radios out there and would loose a whole lot or a lawsuit.. There is a reason why EVERY OTHER manufacture of 2.4 rc equipment uses the FHSS freq. hopping technolgy.. Planes falling out of the sky at massive events(not just overcrowded issues), rx's becoming unbound in flight, lockouts, JR japan releasing FHSS technology,ect.. I mean seriously the technology is that of a wireless mouse.. Mountains of wires and remote rx's and data loggers is just a BAND AID! Take this post however you want but if somone was buying a new radio and bought spektrum/jr they are buying obsolete technology and waiting for the crash..
10-11-2010, 02:33 PM
#187
RE: Which JR\Spectrum receiver did you crash with?
ORIGINAL: taildragger21
I have to chime in here... I witnessed 4 spektrum/jr crashes this weekend.. And thats a normal weekend
I have to chime in here... I witnessed 4 spektrum/jr crashes this weekend.. And thats a normal weekend
That said, I'm still not betting an $8000 jet on DSM...FASST for sure. And I'll eventually put FASST rx's in my other planes as $$$ permits. I agree with the comments about 'pick and stick' DSM compared to FHSS.
11-05-2010, 05:18 PM
#188
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RE: Which JR\Spectrum receiver did you crash with?
Funny thing. I keep looking at E-Bay and rcuniverse for great deals on spectrum or JR 2.4 stuff. So far, not much. Guess this DSM2 stuff ain't as much of a disaster as this thread would like you to believe.
Looking to steal a nice 12X. Anybody out there looking to dump one off on some poor unsuspecting guy?
Also looking to get good deals on 9 channel receivers. If they are so bad, I'm thinking like 20 bucks each.
I have at least one of each 5ch, 6ch 7ch and 9ch receiver. Lost one due to a servo locked up and a couple because I forgot to fly plane or tried to be better than I am. Can't say I have had a lock out. Maybe more of the issues with DSM2 are aerodynamic like stalling than radio lockout?
Keith
Looking to steal a nice 12X. Anybody out there looking to dump one off on some poor unsuspecting guy?
Also looking to get good deals on 9 channel receivers. If they are so bad, I'm thinking like 20 bucks each.
I have at least one of each 5ch, 6ch 7ch and 9ch receiver. Lost one due to a servo locked up and a couple because I forgot to fly plane or tried to be better than I am. Can't say I have had a lock out. Maybe more of the issues with DSM2 are aerodynamic like stalling than radio lockout?
Keith
11-07-2010, 10:49 AM
#189
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RE: Which JR\Spectrum receiver did you crash with?
ORIGINAL: rvnrcer
Funny thing. I keep looking at E-Bay and rcuniverse for great deals on spectrum or JR 2.4 stuff. So far, not much. Guess this DSM2 stuff ain't as much of a disaster as this thread would like you to believe.
Looking to steal a nice 12X. Anybody out there looking to dump one off on some poor unsuspecting guy?
Also looking to get good deals on 9 channel receivers. If they are so bad, I'm thinking like 20 bucks each.
I have at least one of each 5ch, 6ch 7ch and 9ch receiver. Lost one due to a servo locked up and a couple because I forgot to fly plane or tried to be better than I am. Can't say I have had a lock out. Maybe more of the issues with DSM2 are aerodynamic like stalling than radio lockout?
Keith
Funny thing. I keep looking at E-Bay and rcuniverse for great deals on spectrum or JR 2.4 stuff. So far, not much. Guess this DSM2 stuff ain't as much of a disaster as this thread would like you to believe.
Looking to steal a nice 12X. Anybody out there looking to dump one off on some poor unsuspecting guy?
Also looking to get good deals on 9 channel receivers. If they are so bad, I'm thinking like 20 bucks each.
I have at least one of each 5ch, 6ch 7ch and 9ch receiver. Lost one due to a servo locked up and a couple because I forgot to fly plane or tried to be better than I am. Can't say I have had a lock out. Maybe more of the issues with DSM2 are aerodynamic like stalling than radio lockout?
Keith
09-26-2016, 05:19 PM
#190
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well I flew for 1.5 years before putting one in. the plane quit responding after 1 twitch.. as luck would have it I was vertical, nose down going for a deadstick loop. straight in. Using a DX6 with AR610. 6 servos and 4000 ma 2 cell Life batt. reassembled flight pack from the wood pile , range checked great and the battery checks at 90% cap. I'm leaning toward a 2.4 jam..How do the different receivers match to interference.
10-01-2016, 10:34 PM
#193
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Duworm,
That is why I did not vote in the poll, I have had a few crashes, none of which were unexplained. If I had a crash that was unexplained then I would put here.
Here are some of my personal examples that address some of your post
Crash 1 - 82" piper cub AR7000 RX
The cause of this crash was a catastrophic power failure resulting in over 8 minutes of uncontrolled flight at full throttle( or near full throttle), before finally crashing.
Upon examining what was left of the plane it was discovered that the power switch was non functional the RX was knocked out of it's case but still worked. There are those who say "the switch was damaged in the crash", but that ignores the fact that either a complete power failure or a complete RX failure were the only ways to duplicate the symptoms of what actually happened. With the combination of the symptoms and the analysis of the crash it is VERY difficult to blame the radio for this crash.
Crash 2 - Pulse XT AR7000 RX
Flying in 15mph+ wind performing a low altitude rolling circle, the plane crashed immediately after turning downwind in knife edge flight. Again there are those who blame my radio, but how can this be justified? I knew I screwed up as soon as it happened, but there are witnesses who are convinced my radio was to blame. Since the crash happened immediately following a downwind turn in slow knife edge flight, I challenge anyone to legitimately blame this crash on the radio or RX.
Lockout - Ultrasport 1000 (no name 2100 mah Nimh 5 cell RX pack)
While starting into a high speed loop, all control was lost. The plane completed the loop, the engine went to idle and control came back. I immediately landed the airplane and checked the battery. Testing it with the Hobbico expanded scale voltmeter showed it as fine, I did not fly it again until I tested further. Upon testing the battery pack with a computer charger it was found that the battery voltage would drop below the required operating voltage with only a 1/2C load (1 amp). I also discovered that the pack would no longer cycle at anything more than about a 1/4C rate, at this point I determined that the lockout was not a lockout but a brownout due to a faulty battery pack. I am lucky to still have my US 1000!
That is why I did not vote in the poll, I have had a few crashes, none of which were unexplained. If I had a crash that was unexplained then I would put here.
Here are some of my personal examples that address some of your post
Crash 1 - 82" piper cub AR7000 RX
The cause of this crash was a catastrophic power failure resulting in over 8 minutes of uncontrolled flight at full throttle( or near full throttle), before finally crashing.
Upon examining what was left of the plane it was discovered that the power switch was non functional the RX was knocked out of it's case but still worked. There are those who say "the switch was damaged in the crash", but that ignores the fact that either a complete power failure or a complete RX failure were the only ways to duplicate the symptoms of what actually happened. With the combination of the symptoms and the analysis of the crash it is VERY difficult to blame the radio for this crash.
Crash 2 - Pulse XT AR7000 RX
Flying in 15mph+ wind performing a low altitude rolling circle, the plane crashed immediately after turning downwind in knife edge flight. Again there are those who blame my radio, but how can this be justified? I knew I screwed up as soon as it happened, but there are witnesses who are convinced my radio was to blame. Since the crash happened immediately following a downwind turn in slow knife edge flight, I challenge anyone to legitimately blame this crash on the radio or RX.
Lockout - Ultrasport 1000 (no name 2100 mah Nimh 5 cell RX pack)
While starting into a high speed loop, all control was lost. The plane completed the loop, the engine went to idle and control came back. I immediately landed the airplane and checked the battery. Testing it with the Hobbico expanded scale voltmeter showed it as fine, I did not fly it again until I tested further. Upon testing the battery pack with a computer charger it was found that the battery voltage would drop below the required operating voltage with only a 1/2C load (1 amp). I also discovered that the pack would no longer cycle at anything more than about a 1/4C rate, at this point I determined that the lockout was not a lockout but a brownout due to a faulty battery pack. I am lucky to still have my US 1000!
I'm glad you still have your Ultra Sport 1000, an excellent...honest
.....aircraft.I'm not an micro electrical engineer, nor a former AMA champion.But I've seen some things along the way that I can share about JR & Spektrum, and claims of radio defects.
I was 20 ft away from our clumsy "I'm getting hit" champion back in the 72mhz. days. I watched his low altitude inverted pass and clearly pulled the elevator stick back. Thus, a smoking hole, & what's he yell ? " Who's on my channel ? ".
Ive learned that there are way, way more pilot errors or maintenance errors causing crashes than radio failures. We all know this and none of us are incapable of screw ups.
I'm also throwing a flag on flat fabrications. I'd like to hear from anyone who EVER witnessed 4 radio failures at one field on one day. That is a hysteria driven statement made to lend "evidence" to back up their argument. Come on.
ALSO to spread falsehoods like DSM2 is junk, "how could they sell us this outmoded junk ?" as if the company was ripping people off is bunk.
Don't fly Spektrum OR JR then. Have fun learning the pathetic Futaba programing, especially their lousy manuals.
I've been using this "Junk" Spektrum & JR for around 12 years, on collective pitch helis, warbirds, EDF'S and have NEVER, had a radio failure or any crash that wasn't my fault completely.
Buy and fly whatever you want. Just making stuff up, or trying the scientist route with no evidence is irresponsible.
Horizon has done a lot to advance this hobby, and I and most people I know love their service.
Also, understand Futaba has a warranty & repair facility. Why ? Because they break and fail too, seriously
. EVEN....GASP...FHSS stuff ��.Hey, I was at my field and 4 guys with Futabas lost their signals , and killed 3 pilots !!!
Whatever, my daughter would say
Doug
10-02-2016, 09:08 AM
#194
It is kinda funny how as years have gone by (this thread dates to 2010) and more and more people have learned that a rock solid power supply is what is needed , that these "Spektrum killed my plane" threads have come to be pretty infrequent lately . Which is a good thing of course , more people using a proper setup leading to fewer crashes being the desired end result . From the very beginning of 2.4 I realized the importance of not allowing the receiver to drop below it's reset voltage because the 72MHZ with no on board processor that instantly comes back had all of a sudden became the 2.4GHZ with microprocessor that takes a second or two to get it's act back together after the power comes back . And those seconds of course feeling more like minutes of "I ain't got it" time to the brownout victim till crunch time . What I'd really like to know is how many of these "Spektrum killed my plane" people actually hooked up both a Volt meter and an Amp meter and wiggled the sticks and actually measured whether the power drawn was gonna exceed the ability of the batteries (or BEC) to deliver the needed power while originally assembling the control system into the plane ? And for that matter , actually had the mechanical linkages properly set up so as to not be stalling servos before they reach the ends of their commanded travel ? (which of course results in maximum current being drawn) . Having bought the DX7 / AR7000 combo when it was first available and now owning 3 DX7 TXs with about 25 or so AR 7000 RXs and literally thousands of flights since I bought the first one (2007 maybe ?) I'd say the proper power supply is the key to why not once ever has anything more than my own dumb thumb incidents ever crashed any one of my planes .
