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Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown

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Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown

Old 06-24-2012, 08:54 PM
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edgeflyer
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Default RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown

Anytime you get that high pitch noise from the pump and overload error, The pump is froze. Sometimes taping on t with a srewdriver handle will unstick it. I think these pumps are a little sensative to this happening. I've had it happen myself.
Old 08-18-2012, 08:17 AM
  #27  
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Default RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown

Three flights today and three flameouts! All after 4-5 minutes of mixed flying. Fortunatley I'm damn good at deadstick landings. Bubble trap was at least 80% full. Was a hot day for UK standards. 30degs maybe. Last flameout happened on a nice half throttle fly by. Any advice appreciated.
Old 08-18-2012, 09:34 AM
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Default RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown

Dominic, I have a few questions for you...

1) What's the serial number of your engine?
2) If you could replicate the flame out on the ground?
3) Is it at a certain RPM range from throttling up and/or down?
4) After flame out, press #1 button for message

Thanks,
Barry
Old 08-18-2012, 11:10 AM
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Default RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown

Thanks Barry. Annoyingly I don't have the s/n and can't get to it without taking the turbine out of my Futura. I'll do some more testing and see if I can replicate the flameout on the ground.
Old 08-19-2012, 01:01 AM
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Default RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown

Barry

If it helps this is one of the 2 k140's you supplied to me when I was a dealer in the UK.

I have one registered so the serial number will be the other one

My 140 is working fine in the F15. I know Dominic had issues with the pump. Was it replaced or just repaired?

Sorry I can't be more help Dominic as I don't sell KIngtech turbines in the UK now.

I'm sure Barry will sort you out.

Ian


Old 08-20-2012, 04:45 AM
  #31  
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Default RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown

Hi Ian - Pump was repaired but returned without new plastic shielding which I wasn't too impressed by. I'll try to do a video'd test run tonite over 5-6 minutes and see if I get a flameout.

One thing I would like clarified. The very end of the turbine is well into the bell of the exhaust pipe. Is this OK?

Barry - Can you look up the serial number based on what Ian says above? Does it have any bearing on the problem?
Old 08-20-2012, 09:48 AM
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Default RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown

Just did a test run of 7 minutes. Full power for couple of minutes at a time a no problem.

Before start temp 24DegC. Idle RPM 34K. Max RPM 114.5K at 476DegC.

Sound OK? So frustrating when the same problem can't be replicated on the ground.

What would be different in the air?
Old 08-20-2012, 10:09 AM
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Default RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown

I didn't know it's a 140, which case serial number would not mattered at all. Sounds to me you have fuel plumbing issue, check clunk, vent.....etc.etc, but before we rule out turbine related issue, make sure your pump pw and EGT are all normal.
Old 08-20-2012, 10:12 AM
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Default RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown

duplicated, bad firefox
Old 08-20-2012, 10:42 AM
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Default RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown

Pump pw and EGT are accessible from the GSU are presume? Would have been good to know that before testing. Will try again at the weekend then.
Old 08-20-2012, 02:32 PM
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Default RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown

Did you say you had air in the uat Dominic? If so I would certainly look at the plumbing. Maybe air us getting in in flight which doesn't happen when running on the ground.


Old 08-20-2012, 02:39 PM
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Default RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown


ORIGINAL: DominicM

Hi Ian - Pump was repaired but returned without new plastic shielding which I wasn't too impressed by. I'll try to do a video'd test run tonite over 5-6 minutes and see if I get a flameout.

One thing I would like clarified. The very end of the turbine is well into the bell of the exhaust pipe. Is this OK?

Barry - Can you look up the serial number based on what Ian says above? Does it have any bearing on the problem?
Just a thought. On my pumps the plastic shielding holds the pump to the motor. Worth checking that air isn't getting in there. Trying jiggling the pump when running the turbine as this may mimic movement in flight.

Old 08-21-2012, 04:01 AM
  #38  
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Default RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown

ORIGINAL: ModellbauUK
Did you say you had air in the uat Dominic? If so I would certainly look at the plumbing. Maybe air us getting in in flight which doesn't happen when running on the ground.
Yeah, some but not much. The CAT is always 80% to 90% full. Marc of GBRJets has told me that's normal. I'll double check with him though.
Old 08-21-2012, 04:02 AM
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Default RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown

ORIGINAL: ModellbauUK
Just a thought. On my pumps the plastic shielding holds the pump to the motor. Worth checking that air isn't getting in there. Trying jiggling the pump when running the turbine as this may mimic movement in flight.

Will do. Possible I suppose that the movement in flight could be disturbing something like the pump. I'll test with some jiggling and see if any adverse affect on running. Thanks for the suggestion.
Old 04-14-2013, 06:58 AM
  #40  
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Default RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown

New season and back to this model to see if the K140F will run properly. Basically a No based on today. First flight got a flameout and that's what it said on the GSU. Tried again on the ground and got same but noticed that I was getting 'Pump limited reached' before the flameout. Took the BVM UAT out of the system (fuel tank direct to pump). Started up again and got same result with 'Pump limit reached'. Took the fuel tank out of the system by taking fuel line out of the pump into my fuel jug. Same! Got 'pump limit reached'.

I've re-plumbed this complete system twice so it's not a blockage. I've sent the fuel pump back once, it was repaired and sent back. What else could be the problem? I'm thinking the fuel pump is still faulty. 2 years I've had this turbine and not got it to wrong properly yet. [:@]
Old 04-14-2013, 08:21 AM
  #41  
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Default RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown

while it does sound like a pump it could also be a solenoid closing at high flow if plumbed in backward or anything between the pump and turbine, try disconnecting the tube from the turbine and test running the pump at various speeds and see if you see/hear a problem.
Old 04-14-2013, 08:36 AM
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Default RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown


ORIGINAL: KC36330

while it does sound like a pump it could also be a solenoid closing at high flow if plumbed in backward or anything between the pump and turbine, try disconnecting the tube from the turbine and test running the pump at various speeds and see if you see/hear a problem.
I concur with KC, sounds like solenoid not opening all the way and pump limit reached.

1) what is your pump limit currently set at?
2) on the ground, what's your pump pw at full RPM, if possible?

Sorry for your troubles,

Barry
Old 04-14-2013, 08:47 AM
  #43  
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Default RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown


ORIGINAL: marquisvns


ORIGINAL: KC36330

while it does sound like a pump it could also be a solenoid closing at high flow if plumbed in backward or anything between the pump and turbine, try disconnecting the tube from the turbine and test running the pump at various speeds and see if you see/hear a problem.
I concur with KC, sounds like solenoid not opening all the way and pump limit reached.

1) what is your pump limit currently set at?
2) on the ground, what's your pump pw at full RPM, if possible?

Sorry for your troubles,

Barry
Just a thought, but can he just remove the fuel solenoid from the system and run it? That would narrow it down further.
Old 04-14-2013, 09:01 AM
  #44  
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Default RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown

If there are two T fittings and a shutoff valve, then he could turn off bypass during start up, and after it is running turn the bypass on.
Old 04-14-2013, 09:09 AM
  #45  
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Default RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown

Pump limit is 0428. I'll do another test to see if I can get 'pump pw at full RPM'.

Have done another test replicating the issue and video'd the GSU while running. Will post the vid soon as uploaded.
Old 04-14-2013, 11:22 AM
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Default RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown

Complete cycle from start up to the fault and then shutdown and cooling.

'Pump limit reached' happens at 4 minutes.

I don't have additional Ts or valve to create the bypass. I'm very doubtful its the solenoid as on the first flight I did get full throttle for a while before the flame-out. Still think I've got a duff pump.

Worth swapping the solenoids around?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAxl6rwEq6Y
Old 04-14-2013, 12:27 PM
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Default RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown

that's a turbine engine, not a harley at a red light, you don't rev the engine up and down like that, that video was useless IMO.
Old 04-14-2013, 12:40 PM
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Default RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown

ORIGINAL: KC36330
that's a turbine engine, not a harley at a red light, you don't rev the engine up and down like that, that video was useless IMO.
Fine. Good to know. Thanks for your input. Didn't realise I was doing that to be honest. Lesson learnt.

For a Kingtech Rep you certainly are eloquent with your advice.
Old 04-14-2013, 12:50 PM
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Default RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown


ORIGINAL: DominicM

ORIGINAL: KC36330
that's a turbine engine, not a harley at a red light, you don't rev the engine up and down like that, that video was useless IMO.
Fine. Good to know. Thanks for your input. Didn't realise I was doing that to be honest. Lesson learnt.

For a Kingtech Rep you certainly are eloquent with your advice.

the video shows no fault of the turbine, it runs fine up till you start jamming the throttle stick up and down to induce a fault (the pump can't possibly keep up with your up/down/up/down demands), i'm sorry you needed that sugar coated.
Old 04-14-2013, 01:01 PM
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Default RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown

Oh I see now. It's my fault. OK. I'll do another test tomorrow and move the stick very gently and see if I get the same issue. Fairly sure I will.

But I'm just curious, you're inferring that moving the throttle too quickly will always cause this type of problem? I would have thought the ECU would control the acceleration of the engine regardless of how the user moves the stick.

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