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  1. #1

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    Dte light for oil ?

    Can we run dte light as turbine oil? It seems a lot of other people are using this.

    I am concerned about the health effects of turbine oil and also cost.

    Cheers Brad

  2. #2
    Dr Honda's Avatar
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    RE: Dte light for oil ?

    I'm sure Barry will chime in... but yes. KingTech allows it's use.
    Tony
    Owner of A&L Motorsports, LLC

  3. #3
    marquisvns's Avatar
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    RE: Dte light for oil ?

    Negative, DTE is no longer an approved oil for our engines as we have bearing failure reports from Australia, however none from the US. This came from Phil Celima, who has extensive petroleum engineering background, here's what he has to say:

    "Over the past year the use of DTE light in jets has increased and unfortunately so has bearing problems.
    The issues with using DTE are:

    It will NOT mix with any other oil that is Synthetic ester based. It will form a white sludge that will block and damage the engine and components. If using or swapping over to DTE it is essential to ensure that no remnants of the previous synthetic oil remains in the tank. The tank and fuel system should be thoroughly flushed with pure kerosene first.

    Another problem with DTE is the oil is a higher viscosity, the problem here is that with a higher viscosity the flow through the lubrication orifice is lower.
    You can raise the mix from 4-5% to 5-6% there is enough range in pump limit to cope with this. But ideally the lubrication orifice needs to be 1 gauge bigger.

    I have had a lot of engines in for new bearings this year, not only Kingtech's but all makes and the alarming thing is that the time run figures are way under 20hrs."
    www.kingtechturbines.com
    kingtechturbines@gmail.com
    1-626-793-4677
    1-626-399-7588 Barry's cell/text

  4. #4

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    RE: Dte light for oil ?

    Ok thanks, looks like i will stick to turbine oil. It aint cheap though.

    Also is there an approved service center in australia for service and warranty?
    or do they have to be shipped to taiwan (expensive shipping)

    Cheers Brad

  5. #5

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    RE: Dte light for oil ?

    I just saw this on a website ( Noteworthy is the fuel option to run diesel fuel with a 5% volume blend of synthetic 2 stroke motorcycle oil )

    Is this true? is it safe to run this oil.

    Cheers Brad

  6. #6

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    RE: Dte light for oil ?

    ORIGINAL: marquisvns
    I have had a lot of engines in for new bearings this year, not only Kingtech's but all makes and the alarming thing is that the time run figures are way under 20hrs.''
    Now that's odd because I have run only on DTE light for many years, and my longest running engine has reached 65 hours and is still on original bearings. None of my engines has had a bearing change (except the PST which I sold). What's more, for much of that time I was running on just 3% oil. (All Wren engines) The only engine I have ever had to have bearings changed was a PST run on the "proper" Shell turbine oil at 5% and the bearings were wrecked every 20ish hours.
    So whatever problem you have been seeing it seems unlikely to be related to using DTE light.

  7. #7
    Dr Honda's Avatar
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    RE: Dte light for oil ?

    WOW... that's a bomb shell. I think that's the first negative report that I've heard. Most guys have had very long runs. The CD in Pittsburgh has 50 hr's on a Wren SS, and it's running strong. (3 years on DTE Lite)

    I personally switched to it this year because of the"Toxic" issues. I wonder if it's the actual oil... OR

    1) Since it's clear, people forget to put it in

    2) Since it won't mix... if it's a sludgging issue. (I know in the 2-stroke world, it's a HUGE no-no to mix oils)

    3) Not running the right version. (There are several DTE versions, with different additives)


    Barry....

    What is the mode of the bearing failure? Over temp? Lack of lube? stuck?

    I know the Wren 44 I have... the guy I bought it from burnt up 3 sets of bearings in 9 hr's run time. BUT... he was using 2-stroke, and the rear bearing was sticking. (loosing pre-load) But, on DTE... it's running smooth.

    I'm not trying to debate things... but that seems to be contridictive to everything I've heard. (I have a Degree in Physics, and worked as an R&D Chemist for 8 years before opening my shop, so it's in my nature to want to know why)






    ORIGINAL: marquisvns

    Negative, DTE is no longer an approved oil for our engines as we have bearing failure reports from Australia, however none from the US.

    That's strange. I wonder if down in OZ... they get a different blend?

    On RCU... we have Ausi-Jet's engine tech. (he works on big turbines too) I wonder what he's been seeing?? FYI... his name here is Knoby1.

    Finally... Is it still going to be OK in the USA, since we haven't reported failures?


    Tony
    Owner of A&L Motorsports, LLC

  8. #8

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    RE: Dte light for oil ?

    So many people have been successfully using DTE light for so long that if you suddenly get reports from one place of it being a problem, then surely suspicion lies on that one place, not the oil?

  9. #9

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    RE: Dte light for oil ?

    Well, the K brand is selling their own blend of oil...

    That's a good way to increase sales
    Jetcentral Superbee, Rabbit, Cheetah
    Wren 44 in my Bergen Magnum44

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    RE: Dte light for oil ?

    Yes they are here is an clip from the site.

    KingTech Special Blend Oil 2 with Shell Tellus 32 & Synthetics

    Shell Tellus 32 is an equivalent to DTE Light, wonder what the synthetic component is that is coloring it a reddish color?




    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  11. #11
    marquisvns's Avatar
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    RE: Dte light for oil ?



    [/quote]


    That's strange. I wonder if down in OZ... they get a different blend?



    [/quote]

    Not impossible Tony, as this report came to us just last week. There were also other reports of DTE related bearing failures that I heard, and I do not have details as they weren't KingTech. Fortunately, none DTE KingTech users reported anything negative so far, at least not that I have heard here in the US. However to be on the safe side, we are removing it from the list until further data becomes available. Nevertheless, there's no relevance in warranty, we'll still take care of the engines using DTE. In fact, we look forward of studying the bearings when they reached 25 hours.

    Regards,
    Barry
    www.kingtechturbines.com
    kingtechturbines@gmail.com
    1-626-793-4677
    1-626-399-7588 Barry's cell/text

  12. #12

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    RE: Dte light for oil ?

    Is Kingtech going to remove their brand oil since it is mostly Shell Telus 32 or eq Mobile DTE Light?

  13. #13
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    RE: Dte light for oil ?

    Of course not, as I probably have to disagree. Mobile DTE's Shell equivalent would have to be the S1M32 or AW32 at best. The Tellus line has a different set of specifications that suites our purpose of lubricating KingTech engines better, especially with thermal stabilizer, anti corrosion agent and anti stat..... and much more that we have in it. Most importantly, it is proven, we have our engines running with this oil for more than the specified 25 hours and bearings still looked very good.

    Regards,
    Barry
    www.kingtechturbines.com
    kingtechturbines@gmail.com
    1-626-793-4677
    1-626-399-7588 Barry's cell/text

  14. #14

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    RE: Dte light for oil ?

    I've used DTE Lite in only one turbine and it's a T-500 for the last three years and it's still running great. The rest of my turbines which are newer I've just tried to use up what Turbine oil I've had around here. I mix a smaller jug ofthe DTE for the T-500 because 2.5 Gal will fly ya all weekend.
    Scratch it till it bleeds Convert it till it chokes

  15. #15
    marquisvns's Avatar
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    RE: Dte light for oil ?

    Like I said before, here in the US we have no report of bearing failure related from using DTE Lite. If you are comfortable with your experience and your engine is still under one year from the original purchase or bearing replacement, we'll back you up 100%.

    Happy Holidays,
    Barry
    www.kingtechturbines.com
    kingtechturbines@gmail.com
    1-626-793-4677
    1-626-399-7588 Barry's cell/text

  16. #16
    Dr Honda's Avatar
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    RE: Dte light for oil ?

    Thanks for giving us the input on that.


    I rebuilt my Wren 44 last year before changing over. Maybe I'll pull it apart to see if there is any damage in the bearings.
    Tony
    Owner of A&L Motorsports, LLC

  17. #17

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    RE: Dte light for oil ?

    Dang, just bought some DTE light for the first time. Havent used it yet so guess I'll sell it.

  18. #18

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    RE: Dte light for oil ?

    Regarding DTE Lite.
    I have 4 Kingtech turbines a k80 E 100G 140F and a 170F I don't know where Doctor Phil is getting his information from but I can asure you that it is incorrect so far I have put over 500 Lts of fuel through my Turbines and they are still running as good as the day I received them they have been back to the factory for there health checks and I am sure Wen-Fu would have bought it to my attention if there was a problem. As you can see I also live in Australia and know most of the jet guys here and so far I have not heard A WORD against DTE and I speak to jet guys right across the country. I was aproached sever years ago by Doc Phil wanting to service my turbines and told him that there was only one place my engines were going and that was back to the factory. As Barry has stated before when they go back to the factory they can check on the condition of all the hot stuff and if something needs addressng to rectify a problem they are the in the best place to do it.

  19. #19
    Boomerang1's Avatar
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    RE: Dte light for oil ?

    I fly in the same club with Phil Celima. I am currently in the situation where I fly 2 fuel mixes,
    one using turbine oil for a Jetcat (warranty) DTE light for Wren SS & 44's.

    Phil did mention to me to be careful & not mix fuels as he thinks DTE is mineral based & turbine
    oils are synthetic based & the two will not mix properly.

    I have not been particularly fussy on flushing out pumps/solenoids/fuel lines etc on my Wrens, just
    drain the tank with one brew & fill with the other, no problems so far but I'll clean & flush just to be sure.

    Don't know about the viscosity issue. Oil's only mixed at 5% so once it's thinned at 95% I think the JetA/diesel
    vs home kero viscosity differences would be more a concern. - John.

  20. #20
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    RE: Dte light for oil ?

    All i use is DTE lite. My Wren Super Sport had 87 hrs run time on it with only DTE lite. The internals when service were very clean....

  21. #21

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    RE: Dte light for oil ?

    Dam i'm even more confused now !! But I will have to go with what the manufacturer says.
    I was looking forward to using dte because I think I get a skin reaction when using turbine oil, also the price is up there.
    Cheers Brad

  22. #22

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    RE: Dte light for oil ?

    Hi All,
    Interesting thread.
    I have been running DTE light with Diesel in my K140 for a total of 690 minutes.
    so far so good. Runs like a dream and I will be continuing to use the DTE.
    At 20 hours I will send it back to the factory and get their opinion on the state of the bearings.

    Regards,

    Paul.

  23. #23

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    RE: Dte light for oil ?

    Something I was told was that DTE doesn't provide the between run protection as well as turbine oil. It leaves the bearings a little dry compared to a turbine oil. I was told to mix 4% DTE to 1% Synthetic 2T 2 stroke oil for protection between runs. I use a PAO based synthetic 2T oil that mixes well with DTE. I tested it in a mixing cup for a few days to make sure it doesn't seperate out. I imagine that Kingtech is doing something similar for their oil only substituting the DTE for the Shell product.

  24. #24
    Aussie Bart's Avatar
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    RE: Dte light for oil ?


    I must say, this is all a bit confusing!!>>

    Phil quotes “It will NOT mix with any other oil that is Synthetic ester based. It will form a white sludge that will block and damage the engine and components.” Meaning as far as Phil is concerned mixing mineral with synthetic (even if it is only remanets in the tank) is a no no. >>

    Kingtech have used this as an advice to drop DTE light but Kingtech have now released a Tellus 32 mineral oil blended synthetic oil at an 80/20 ratio??>>

    Mobil Jet II has a viscosity of 27.6 (@ 40o c) Dte Light is 32 cst which is exactly the same viscosity as Tellus 32.>>

    Tellus 32 is just a dumb arse hydraulic oil (I know as I sell thousands of litres of the stuff), DTE light is a Steam turbine circulating oil.>>

    Mobil Jet II has a flash point of 270o , Tellus 32 flash point is 210o , DTE Light flash point is 218o .>>

    Phil is a smart dude who knows his stuff, but I just can’t understand why Kingtech would remove DTE light and replace it with Shell Tellus 32 claiming it is better where in real life it is the same if not worse than the DTE light.>>

    And oh yeah, before you start with the blending stuff, both oils have the same anti oxidization, anti foam and air release agents in them, in fact DTE light is designed to operate in environments up to 150o c where all standard hydraulic oils start to breakdown and suffer shear from 110o c and up.>>



    ORIGINAL: marquisvns

    Negative, DTE is no longer an approved oil for our engines as we have bearing failure reports from Australia, however none from the US. This came from Phil Celima, who has extensive petroleum engineering background, here's what he has to say:

    "Over the past year the use of DTE light in jets has increased and unfortunately so has bearing problems.
    The issues with using DTE are:

    It will NOT mix with any other oil that is Synthetic ester based. It will form a white sludge that will block and damage the engine and components. If using or swapping over to DTE it is essential to ensure that no remnants of the previous synthetic oil remains in the tank. The tank and fuel system should be thoroughly flushed with pure kerosene first.

    Another problem with DTE is the oil is a higher viscosity, the problem here is that with a higher viscosity the flow through the lubrication orifice is lower.
    You can raise the mix from 4-5% to 5-6% there is enough range in pump limit to cope with this. But ideally the lubrication orifice needs to be 1 gauge bigger.

    I have had a lot of engines in for new bearings this year, not only Kingtech's but all makes and the alarming thing is that the time run figures are way under 20hrs."

    Bart

  25. #25

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    RE: Dte light for oil ?

    For what is worth I have burnt over 60 Lts of DTE in my Kingtechs I mix 700 Mls to 50/50 Jet A and Diesel. I have put over 500 Lts through my K80 and K140 alone not counting the others.
    Cheers
    Mav

    ( I have spoken to Barry about this crap)


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