PacificNWSkyPilot

My Feedback: (19)

You'll know you've really gotten it right when OTHER wives complain.....

~ Jim ~

shd3920

Why are some of you now trying to talk us out of a kit? My brother is the one with no building experience but I have built many kits including Guillows, and I have even built a Seniorita for someone else about 5 years ago but I dont have a clue as to remembering how the kit was, I just remember I did solid balsa windows and windshield as I was afraid to try the plastic. He purchased the kit, motor and radio and paid me a little to build it, thats all I remember about that project. Like I said I dont remember a thing about the kit thats why all the questions.

mike109

G'day HLLY

I know just what you mean. I leaned from a really good pilot who was a really bad teacher. He recommended planes that he liked to fly and which were totally wrong for me. Fortunately (?) he crashed the model (not really his fault) and when I turned up with a real trainer he lost interest in me and I had to continue my education in a rather messy way.

The plane that pulled it all together was the Kadet Senior because I could fly it and be comfortable flying it. It gave me the confidence and stick time to progress to other more complex models.

These days I teach the ones that the experts give up on and the Kadet usually does the trick because it knows how to fly better than I do. My students usually then go on to more complex models but the Kadet is the model that I find best for the learner who is having a hard time of it or who is "more advantaged in years".

I am currently building my eighth. All but one are still flying. I built it for a friend who only flies occasionally and it died from lack of maintenance. The oldest is now approaching 20 years of age.

PacificNWSkyPilot

My Feedback: (19)

Not trying to talk you out of anything...you had indicated that you were worried about how the dealer would view your not taking the kit (which I had to assume meant that you were either going to buy an ARF or not doing it at all, and if you were not doing it at all, then why worry that he'd ban you?).

Just responding to your own questions and concerns.

If you're determined to get the kit, then get the kit. THEN ask a mess of questions as you're working. I think a great number of the guys here stop into the thread and assume this is a work in progress, when in fact you haven't even picked up the kit yet.

I think some of them just want you to decide. Giving advice and then finding out that you don't even have the kit in question, and in fact are conflicted as to whether to get a kit or not, that's NOT why we're here. That's the part where you decide for yourself, and THEN you come into the threads asking questions when you need help.

This is the easiest, simplest kit in the whole world, designed probaby 40 or 50 years ago to be built on any flat table with a bottle of white glue, some pins, a modeling saw, sanding block and X-acto knife. It's no Guillows kit, it's a REAL model. It's so simple, in fact, that after seeing you ask so many questions that we simply started to assume that you're not capable of a simple kit even with a half-dozen pages of posts of encouragement, so we started to recommend an ARF.

That being said, there are already too many people at the fields these days, more are not needed. That's my own opinion, of course, although it's correct.

I'll check in at some point and see whether you decided to do anything at all. Because there is some question about that, to be sure. The odds are that like others I've seen come and go in here, you're just engaging in dialogue because you haven't anything better to do.

Later.

~ Jim ~

shd3920

Wrong in my area, maybe correct in yours. Our field is LOOKING for members to join as they are a dying breed in my area.

Also incorrect. I am getting the kit for him on or about the 4th, but I dont think I will acknowledge that in this post as it seems to be getting alittle mean in my welcome here. And I have been a member of RCU for many years, I am not a troll just looking for conversation. I am a busy guy with horses as well and I dont just hang around looking for attention.

I am very capable of building a kit, I have built many. It's MY BROTHER who wanted me to ask the questions to help him decide if he wants it so I don't waste 100s of $$$ on something he ended up wishing he hadn't gotten.

And as far as making you think its a kit already started. I stated in the first post that it was a kit he was thinking of getting and wasn't purchased yet.

This will be my last post as his decision has been made, unless someone gives me a reason to write something.

Good day folks.

PacificNWSkyPilot

My Feedback: (19)

Maybe I'm getting too old and intolerant for this.

But I have a point and maybe an observation or two.

Is your brother illiterate? Why can't he ask the questions? This is like a guy asking his doctor about "a friend" who has this or that happening to him. The doc knows who he's asking the questions for.

Sounds like you want the plane or a flying buddy (as your field membership is dying off) and your brother has been trying to figure out a way to tell you NO. Either way, buy a Realflight first. If he keeps flying the flight sim, then you can justify the expenditure on the plane. (HE, of course, meaning YOU.)

Of course, if your membership existed, you'd be able to ask these questions of them. This is basic stuff. Any club has multiple members who could answer any and all of these questions.

And now suddenly you have built lots of them? This is a very simple, basic, easy kit. Why all the questions then? You're asking the questions FOR him? Why not just answer the questions for him if you've built lots of them? That's a fair question.

What will you do next? Go to the field and tell everybody there that you've flown lots of them? You have a problem with being a beginner, for some reason. To be perfectly honest with you, I have a problem with beginners who can't be honest enough to admit they're beginners. When they get to the field with a plane with an APC prop in it and slice themselves up, or put it in the air and endager others because in fact they CAN'T fly, that's when the lies becomes dangerous, even life-threatening.

Be man enough to admit you're just starting out. There's no shame in that.

Whatever's going on with you, it all doesn't add up. Not to you being a pilot, or a builder. Alzheimers might explain it, but obviously that would be even worse.

And I'll admit this; at this point I don't care what the explanation is, because there's lying going on and I've seen enough to know all I need to know.

Good luck there, Bud.

~ Jim ~

shd3920

What an ass to believe you know me . . .

Simply because it is MY RCU account so that is why I am typing the questions. RCKen reprimanded me before about opening a separate account for someone else with my computer, thus the same computer address number. So I have to do this questioning under my account.

Never had a membership as of yet, but that is due to personal family issues.

No, just the opposite, he can't wait to get started on the build

I have built many of them, given many away, built one for someone else years ago, and currently have two here now completely finished. I could show some photos of them but I have nothing to prove.

Like I said for I dont know how many times, I am asking the questions so that he dont end up with a kit that he wishes we didnt get

Because I don't have the knowledge of the Senior kit

I have no problem admitting that I am a beginner when it comes to flying and have never even attempted to fly a plane before, thus the reason for joining a club this spring, and I see nothing wrong with having a family member share this interest.

I am a beginner, so be it. I have a problem with club members claiming they dont need more members in their club. Why the hell would clubs chase away potential RCers wanting to learn. Not much of a club if they chase beginners away.

I agree

And as far as lying and 'him' being 'me', I can show you all the proof you want to see in photos, and even show a photo of my brother whom you claim don't exist because its really me. But, again, I have nothing to prove. I was simply asking advice on a kit before I spent the money to get something that in the end wasnt really wanted.

Thank you, and have a great day

hllywdb

Hey Jim,
I pride myself in being able to piss off ANYBODY's wife! Just being able to PO your own is for ametures

Mike,
One of the first things I tell new trainee's is that the plane knows how to fly just fine, your job is to learn to let it, then give it suggestions on where to go. I have often put a Kadet into a spiraling dive, then set the TX down on the ground and walk away. They are amazed when it rights itself and flys just fine. But it makes the point and lets them relax a bit.

Disclaimer: These actions were performed by professional pilots on a closed course. Do not attempt this at home.

Masonhornet

This is getting weird...

shd3920

Yes it is getting weird. Started from me asking about advice on a kit, to turning ugly, to being weird. I got the info I needed and he likes the kit so that is the last I have to say about this issue. But if someone makes a comment that cries for reply I will give it, but as far as I'm concerned this issue is CLOSED

Top_Gunn

My Feedback: (6)

Don't let one fool sour you on RCU. The Kadet Senior is a good plane, you and your brother should have a great time building it, and it will be a blast to fly. If you should need help about something, this is a good place to get it. Sometimes you'll get nonsense, too. Best to ignore it.

wazzbat

Well said!

mike109

G'day shd

Did you see the photo of the close up detail of how I put the windscreen in my latest Kadet? I'd be interested in your comments.

This thread has gone the way that many popular threads go. Initially it was pretty focused but as the page count grew it became a bit "fuzzy". Don't worry about that, just get whatever you have decided on, build it with your brother and enjoy it.

My brother and I used to fly control line back in the 1970s. He was the pilot, and I was the builder and pitman. We had a great time racing Goodyear models, Rat Race and he flying combat. But sadly, he moved away to go to uni and that was the end. Later I continued with a young friend of ours and eventually he and I married sisters. We still fly occasionally and chat about our modeling exploits quite often. Later still my son and I flew together for a few years but again his studies took precedence and he has since moved away and married. These days I fly at my local club (my third RC club) and am known locally for the Kadet Wing that I have. I have many other planes too but I always come back to the Kadets when I want quiet relaxing flight.

Perhaps you might like to run a build thread some time. I have been working on my latest Kadet recently and have been collecting photos of the progress so far. To date I have one almost completed wing half and one which needs a wing tip and some other details. I will probably not join the wing once the halves are finished as it will be easier to store the two halves and I will join them when I am nearer to covering.

Once again I will use cloth covering on this plane despite the recommendations by others to not do so. I find cloth coverings easier and neater to use and the small additional weight is easily repaid by the fact that the cloth is tougher and lasts longer.

One final comment on building. I often find that when I am building that I reach a point and am not sure what to do next. When this happens I stop and go and do something else. When I come back I then try to make just a small advance on the project. Just one glue joint or one piece of wood cut and this usually is enough to clear my head and I am on my way again.

Enjoy your kit - what ever it is.

Mike in Oz.

Tall Paul

On Kadets:
http://www.angelfire.com/indie/aerostuff/kadets.htm
Seniors fly OK but not well with .40 2-strokes.
The larger motors.. .46 and up are slightly better choices.
I prefer 4-strokes... .65, .70, and only occassionaliy will put a .91 in a Kadet. Overkill.
Film covering.
Add diagonals to the fuselage on the top rear and bottom. Really stiffens the structure, makes it stronger.
3-channels fly it fine.
For 4-channels, reduce the dihedral about 1/2.
Strip ailerons or barn doors. One servo for each.

shd3920

Yes I studied it and that is exactly what I was talking about. What I'd like to know is this. Is there enough framework around the side windows to use screws the way you did the windshield?

That has crossed our minds until the rude comments started here in this thread. We were going to but it wouldn't have been a step-by-step build, but it would have been enough to make it interesting. [/quote]

We will be covering with Ultracote medium blue and yellow.

mike109

G'day

The wood around the window frame is double 1/4 x 1/4 balsa and spruce AND it has a skin of 1/32 ply. It is quite strong. It has to be strong in this area as it is where the wing holding dowels are located (with lots of epoxy). The screws I used are only about 1/8 inch long and I think I used 5 to distribute the load. It is only holding a piece of plastic sheet in place while I apply the canopy glue. The earlier ones I did were done without the screws and this was more difficult as I had to hold the plastic sheet in place with tape while the glue dried. Using the small screws really makes the job quite easy by comparison.

One of my recent models was covered in Sky Blue and Yellow Monocote. I was worried that the blue would make the model hard to see. I need not have worried. It was fine so your proposed colour scheme should be fine. I even covered my small 80% AstroHog completely in Sky Blue. It was really cheap as no one wanted the colour. I was worried that the model would simply disappear in the sky but it does not and is really quite easy to see especially for a small model.

My Seniorita was not painted or covered at the front. I started out to fuel proof it by doping it then spraying it with clear lacquer but the clear lacquer looked so good that I just sanded it lightly and gave it a few more coats and never covered it. It worked really well. The rest of the model was covered in see through red Solafilm with white wingtips. I ran out of red.

Cheers

Mike in Oz

fatboys124

My Feedback: (2)

I have two one i built three channel and a rtf, the one i built is for sale reciever ready and i may even have a radio and reciever for it,they are both taildragers with pull pull tailwheels most fun ive ever had flying let me know if you want the one i built Dave

Gravity Storm

On Kadet Senior
I have three kadet Seniors and two kadet Senioritas. My oldest Senior is powered by a Enya 40 Flies great I even mount a video camera on top of the wing. I have a seniorita with a 35 that will pull the wings off if your not careful. My brother and I used to fly together he started with the Kadet Mk II flew great a little quicker that the Senior and Seniorita. Building the Kadets is great. I am a big fan of sigs kits. Good luck.

CGRetired

My Feedback: (1)

Do you guys also need a reminder about being civil? This thread has gone pretty well so far. I may not agree with some of the posts, but that's my personal opinion and I would appreciate it if you guys kept your personal opinions to your self, especially when they become confrontational.

If you want to keep this going, then keep on the subject and follow the rules. I can easily lock this down.

I would have thought that RCKen's deleting a post would send a message. I'll be more forward than that.

Keep it civil or I'll close it down. Simple enough?

CGRetired, Beginners Moderator.

rcmichael

My Feedback: (21)

I live in Colorado at 5280 ft ASL. I have flown an 80 inch wingspan version of the Kadet with ailerons. It flys well and believe it or not is not overpowered with a O.S. .90 ci fs. My only recomendation is to build in landing flaps to decrease the glide and make landing quicker. It flys great like a trainer should but floats too much. It's really a little too easy to fly, perhaps cutting a few in off the wingtips would also make it a better trainer.

hllywdb

I find the seniors are best with nothing more than a bushing 40 (remember the recomended motor is 29 to 40 back when 29's had less power than some of today's 15's) and the seniorettas with a bushing 25 and am usually around 1/3 throttle most of the time even then. More motor than that is a waste as there is far too much drag. It is designed as a floater and suits it's purpose best as just that. Nice, slow, and gentle.

I agree with Mike on the color. Yellow is great and the plane is big enough that you don't get disoriented anyway. I prefer the transparent yellow or red, it's nice to see all the stick work. Kind of like the old stick and tissue rubber powered models.

CGRetired

My Feedback: (1)

We have one member of our club that has been trying to sell one - on consignment - a good friend passed away and left a rather large collection of planes to the club for eventual sale. One is a Senior.

Ron, the guy that is trying to sell them, has used it for about two years now, for a demo trainer plane at our club public events. He has not sold it yet, but keeps on using it as a demo-trainer.

The plane is in just about every club newsletter.. so he is trying.. but at the same time, well, it's a great trainer.

He buddy-box'es it up and puts potential RC students on it and has a ball with both the plane and the potential student.... and club member

It's a great platform.. for many reasons.

CGr.

hllywdb

Agreed, CGR
I think so many flyers, even those of us who train, get a bit too removed from those first flights. We tend to do things by instinct, we have done too many test flights for beginning modelers and rarely get into trouble no matter how far out of trim it is that we foget just how nerve racking those first flights are for a beginner. When "Vertical Performance" meant a sucessful takeoff, "Down lines" were something to be avoided at all costs, and "Spin rate" was what was happening right before the plane became a kit again.

These timeless designs became classics because they really are a newbie's best friend, just as they were kitted. Yes, we can add alierons, larger motors, etc and they seem to make them fly better for us, but for a beginner the only modifications should be color choice and maybe bigger wheels for a grass field. I will probably always have a Kadet Senoir or Senoiretta handy in 3 channel for teaching and the other one is the old Golberg Jr Falcon in 2 channel with a Cox 049. They have been around unchanged for decades for good reason.

shd3920

I apologize to all for losing my temper, I will behave [sm=angel_smile.gif][sm=shades_smile.gif]

mike109

G'day

I agree that the Kadet does not need a great deal of engine. I have yet to put a two stroke in any of mine but this is not because I don't think they would work but simply because I like four strokes. I think, from what I have seen of many trainers and engines, that an OS LA 46 would be more than enough.

I do like the fact that with my four strokes I can take off easily across our strip (about 40 feet) because our strip runs East-West and we often have strong Southerly winds. When this happens I just use "the cross strip" and when I land I turn into the wind once I have slowed down enough.

There is another reason I like Kadets. They make excellent engine test platforms. I have powered my Kadet Seniors with an OS FS40, Enya 46 4c, Saito 45 Mk 11 (just not enough go until I changed the cam), ASP 52 four stroke, Saito 56, ASP 61 Four Stroke, Saito 62, Laser 70, Saito 72 and even an ASP 91 in the ARF.

Of that collection, the Saito 56 and the ASP 52 and 61 were the best matches and the most sensible, the OS FS40 was real fun as it needed to be coaxed into the air and the Laser 70 and Saito 72 were well overpowered and spent most of their time at about 1/3 power. The ASP 91 was insane and I was sure that if I left it there that I would eventually rip the wings off so out it came and at the present time the plane is engine-less though I am thinking of putting my very old OS FS60 (open rocker) in it.

My friend's Kadet with the MDS 47(?) flies well but the engine is not great. Another that I put together for a young lad flies well with a very old Magnum 46XL.

I have a couple of Enya 40ss plain bearing engines and I flew one in my LT-40. I was assured it would not be powerful enough but this was not the case and the engine was a perfect match for the airframe.