maxtenet

Hey guys,

I just got an old Tsunami kit and haven't built a kit for a number of years (maybe 30). Here's my question. What kind of glue to use? I used to build with ambroid and duco. I have used the cyanoacrylates also as well as epoxy. Whats best for formers, wing ribs, panels, etc. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Max

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

This may be a post of a 1000 answers. I use epoxy on hardwood to hardwoodhardwood fire wall to the balsa or hardwood sides. CA on balsa to balsa, thin on tight fits, thick or medium if I need a bit more time. Wood glue on parts where more time is required or when sheeting foam. A lot of folks have gone over to using only wood glue due to the CA reaction to the nose but I have gotten warps with wood glue so I switched back over to CA and just swatch how I use it. I don't work directly over it and I try to have a lot of ventilation. I tend to build more in the summer months when it is warm and I can have my door and window opened. For high stress areas or on hardwood I pretty much use 30 minute epoxy.

SeamusG

Here's Airfield Models Opinion

With Airfield Models site help I don't think that 1000 replies will be necessary.

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

Types of adhesives

<dir><dir>

Elmer's Carpenter's Glue

5 minute epoxy

30 minute epoxy

CA's

Formula 560

Gorilla Glue

Thread locks

3M 77 spray adhesive

- This is some great stuff that has lots of uses in our hobby. One that comes to mind right off the bat is when doing cockpits. You can use this spray adhesive to hold items like printed instrument panels in place. - Self-explanatory. I use thread lock to keep nuts and screws in place. Always use blue thread lock so you can remove the nut or screw later. Never ever use red thread lock because it's permenant, you won't get your nut or screw off ever again. - I don't use this glue too much because of the way it expands while setting up. This can be bad if you don't have the area secured properly because it can push the parts out of position before it dries. But I've found that it does have several really good uses, one especially good is if you have areas that need to be filled and secured. You can apply the glue and a little water and the glue will expand out into the area you want to fill. - This is a canopy adhesive and that's exactly what I use it for, for attaching the canopy to the fuselage - Yes, I know I said I didn't use these but that's not entirely true. I still use them for a couple of things. I keep thin CA around for hardening threads cut into wood for such things as wing bolts. I may also use it to help hold large constructions together while the Elmer's sets. I will put a couple of small drops on the wood to hold it all together while the wood glue dries. I also do reviews for RCU and I use the proper thickness CA adhesive that is called for in the instructions. I do this because we try to do review planes as the instructions call for. I do have medium and thick CA around but don't use them much. Especially the thick, too many people try to use thick CA to fill up gaps in wood joints but this can be bad, it can lead to a false sense of security because the joint will be weak. Nothing beats wood to wood contact in a joint. - I use this for critical stress areas on the plane such as wing joints, firewall attachments, horizontal and vertical stabilizer, securing hinge points, and other high stress critical areas. - I do have this around but I very rarerly use it. I will usually use 30 minute, but I have the 5 minute around for quick uses that aren't in critical areas of the plane. - This is my main adhesive. I use it for the majority of building with balsa and wood to wood contact. For ply's and harder woods I will use epoxy </dir></dir>

Well, that's about all I can think of right now.

Ken

I used to use CA's for my building but about 9 years ago I switched to Elmer's Carpenter's Glue, and I won't go back to the CA's. I feel that my building has improved since I've switched because I have more time to get a joint positioned correctly before the glue sets and you don't get those hard knots in the wood that are impossible to sand. Also I didn't like the reaction my body has to the CA fumes. Many call it a CA allergy, but after I've talked to a few doctors and a couple of chemists I find that it's not an allergy but a simple chemical reaction in your body. The CA fumes react with the moisture in your nose, throat, and lungs to produce some very bad reactions. Over time these reactions can become worse with repeated exposure. I've seen people that can hardly breath for 3 days after using it. I wanted to avoid that from happening before it got to that point. So..... here's what I use for my building.

SeamusG

OK - Is RCU site software getting weird again? Prohibiting quick replies ...


What happended to RCKen's reply?

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

Sorry, I posted this but the editor wacked out the formatting. Let me try to post it in a different way this time

I used to use CA's for my building but about 9 years ago I switched to Elmer's Carpenter's Glue, and I won't go back to the CA's. I feel that my building has improved since I've switched because I have more time to get a joint positioned correctly before the glue sets and you don't get those hard knots in the wood that are impossible to sand. Also I didn't like the reaction my body has to the CA fumes. Many call it a CA allergy, but after I've talked to a few doctors and a couple of chemists I find that it's not an allergy but a simple chemical reaction in your body. The CA fumes react with the moisture in your nose, throat, and lungs to produce some very bad reactions. Over time these reactions can become worse with repeated exposure. I've seen people that can hardly breath for 3 days after using it. I wanted to avoid that from happening before it got to that point. So..... here's what I use for my building.

[*]Elmer's Carpenter's Glue - This is my main adhesive. I use it for the majority of building with balsa and wood to wood contact. For ply's and harder woods I will use epoxy[*]5 minute epoxy - I do have this around but I very rarerly use it. I will usually use 30 minute, but I have the 5 minute around for quick uses that aren't in critical areas of the plane.[*]30 minute epoxy - I use this for critical stress areas on the plane such as wing joints, firewall attachments, horizontal and vertical stabilizer, securing hinge points, and other high stress critical areas.[*]CA's - Yes, I know I said I didn't use these but that's not entirely true. I still use them for a couple of things. I keep thin CA around for hardening threads cut into wood for such things as wing bolts. I may also use it to help hold large constructions together while the Elmer's sets. I will put a couple of small drops on the wood to hold it all together while the wood glue dries. I also do reviews for RCU and I use the proper thickness CA adhesive that is called for in the instructions. I do this because we try to do review planes as the instructions call for. I do have medium and thick CA around but don't use them much. Especially the thick, too many people try to use thick CA to fill up gaps in wood joints but this can be bad, it can lead to a false sense of security because the joint will be weak. Nothing beats wood to wood contact in a joint.[*]Formula 560 - This is a canopy adhesive and that's exactly what I use it for, for attaching the canopy to the fuselage [*]Gorilla Glue - I don't use this glue too much because of the way it expands while setting up. This can be bad if you don't have the area secured properly because it can push the parts out of position before it dries. But I've found that it does have several really good uses, one especially good is if you have areas that need to be filled and secured. You can apply the glue and a little water and the glue will expand out into the area you want to fill.[*]Thread locks - Self-explanatory. I use thread lock to keep nuts and screws in place. Always use blue thread lock so you can remove the nut or screw later. Never ever use red thread lock because it's permenant, you won't get your nut or screw off ever again. [*]3M 77 spray adhesive - This is some great stuff that has lots of uses in our hobby. One that comes to mind right off the bat is when doing cockpits. You can use this spray adhesive to hold items like printed instrument panels in place.
[/list]
Well, that's about all I can think of right now.


Ken

SeamusG

Ken - do you use any of the glues for fuel proofing the engine or tank areas?

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

Jim, are you asking about the wood glue?? I fuel proof from the fire wall all the way back into the wing area with epoxy thined down with alcohol. Going that far back had helped me with some big fuel leak problems this year. I have never tried any of the wood glues but it would be helpful if it is fuel proof.

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

I use epoxy to fuelproof the engine area as well as the fuselage where the tank is mounted. However, I prefer to use heat to thin the epoxy with instead of alchohol. Just put a "blob" of epoxy on the wood, heat it with your heat gun, and then use a disposable epoxy brush to paint the wood with the epoxy. The heat will thin it down to almost the consistency of water. This makes it easy to spread with the brush and it allows it to soak into the wood as well.

Ken

scigs30

My Feedback: (8)

Most of my builds are with white wood glue and some Epoxy were called for. I did build one model with CA, never again since this stuff dries way too fast for me and gets everywhere.

sensei

I use only thin, and medium CA on all my giant scale airframes, and epoxy laminating resin for glueing sheeting on foam.

Bob

Lightfoot

My Feedback: (1)

I had the same experience with CA. I only use Titebond for construction and have had excellent results. I use epoxy for most plywood parts and for fuel proofing firewalls. I thin with denatured alcohol.

ARUP

If you want a surface smooth after sanding then don't have CA anywhere near it! I use 30' epoxy for high stress joints, Ambroid, Duco and Sig Bond and similar wood glue everywhere else. I only use CA to make building jigs and set up fixtures.

maxtenet

Wow!

I never thought that I would get so many informative responses. I am going to have to think this through before even laying the plans out. Thanks so much for the help guys. Especially RCKen!

Max

sensei

Have you ever heard of spline board for sanding? You can get CA, epoxy, or anything else on any outside surface of your airframe and achieve a perfect smooth surface every time with a spline board or a spline table, I have been doing this for years.

Bob

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

I hate to call it the great glue debate but like I said, it is the post of a 1000 answers. Not one of them is ever going to be the one that gets etched in stone. Everyone has a favorite way to do things and glue and covering are just two of them. I have very little trouble sanding CA, I watch how and where I use it. I get too much warping from water based wood glues. I want a glue to dry in seconds so I can move on with the build. I started with Ambroids and testors. When I was showed the CAs my building changed for the better. Others can't stand using it for both health reasons, speed and the way it hardens wood to creat a sanding problem. Like covering, glues are a choice thing and worth testing so you find out what you like best. All work just fine to bond wood.

scigs30

My Feedback: (8)

I have seen great builds that used Airplane Cement, White and Yellow glue and CA glues so the choice is personal. I have never seen a proper glue joint fail except for a RTF fly model, and we think that may have been hot glue. I like wood glue, but most flyers at the club like med and slow CA.

Rodney

I have to say that RCKen's comments are just about perfect as they mirror my feelings very closely. I have at least 10 types of glue in my work area and there are times when each different type is the bettor choice. Now most of my building is done with an aliphatic, usually Titebond II but other carpenters glues work as well. I also like his comments about using heat to thin out epoxies. I've seen to many poor results where alcohol was used to thin the epoxies. The one glue I have not used but may as foamy electrics enter my hanger is "hot glue", right now I use Gorilla glue on most foam problems as long as I can clamp or hold the parts in position while the glue cures.

ARUP

Can't sand compund curved surfaces with those! Everybody has their 'faves'! Thanks for reply! (sorry about hijac Maxtenet)

maxtenet

Thanks again! I just started building the plane and have amassed about six different glue types. Now I am having trouble coming up with an appropriate surface for building. The card table ain't gonna cut it. I forgot what I used many years ago. Something flat which I could stick pins in. Any suggestions there.

Max

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

Max,
 How much room do you have?? there are many different things that can be used. My normal recommendation if you have the room is a hollow core door. Check at your Lowe's/Home Depot/Menards/Home improvement store and you should be able to find many different sizes and possibly one small enough to fit into a tight area. They usually aren't that expensive, and many times you can find one that has small defects that you can pick up for a reduced price. You can push pins into it, but it can be a bit tough though. You can simply put a ceiling tile on top of that to push your pins into.

Another source I have heard others use, but I have not tried myself is to get a piece of MDF cut for you at the home improvement store. MDF is a processed product and is usually very flat and workable. Once again, like with the door you can put a ceiling tile on it in order to push pins into it.

The key to whatever you use is that it's flat. Flat surface will build a straight and true airplane. Another key is that it will remain flat. The hollow core door has a structure inside that will resist sags, and a product like MDF is processed so it too will resist sagging in the future.

Hope this helps

Ken