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  1. #176
    HoundDog's Avatar
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    RE: Top Flite Giant P-47 Build


    ORIGINAL: redbiscuits

    Glassing can add a lot of weight if you just glop it on and don't wet sand it back. The way I overcome this is by thinning my epoxy with denatured alcohol. I mix my epoxy in a graduated cup with equal parts of each (1 part resin, 1 part hardener, 1 part alcohol) Mix small batches as needed, a little goes a long way. Apply a thin coat of resin on the part you are glassing, lay your cloth on and get the wrinkles out, then try and squeeze out the excess resin with a plastic scraper or a playing card. At this point all your trying to do is adhere the glass to the wood. After it cures out, what I do, is come back and apply a second thin coat to fill the weave. I then wet sand with a sanding block and 320 grit to level the surface and take off excess resin, then I prime. Primer should also be sanded back as much as possible to avoid excess weight.
    It's a tedious process, and everyone has their own method of what works for them. But the end result is very gratifying. You can do a search and find a 1000 different ways,
    This one works for me.

    As for "scale" retract speed, I prefer my gear to just work. I don't use air restrictors to slow the gear down, I want enough pressure to lock and unlock them so I don't have problems. I would go with electric retracts if you are looking for a more scale gear cycle. Robart is releasing a whole line this year for all the Top Flight warbirds, and there is also a company out there that is retro-fitting air gear with electric motors. ( search: Down and Locked)
    The company that retro fits retracts is down and locked ... but if U buy Robart Electric Retracts that is what U get because that's the cmpany that robart has make theirs or tey modified their manfurturing process so they didn't have to be retro fitted for the Down and Locked electric parts ... Check it out. as for limitting the air to slow retracts it's done on the out flow so as to maintain the pressure in the retracts UP or Down and locking ... What eever U prefer is good.
    Remember ... Every one of these Things we fly Comes with a Number, When the R/C Gods call that Number, it's going in a Garbage Bag, No Sniveling Allowed.
    P-47 Thunderbolt Brotherhood #24 & #43

  2. #177
    redbiscuits's Avatar
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    RE: Top Flite Giant P-47 Build

    HD,

    Are you talking about adjusting the valve? I do that, but I don't actually put a restrictor in the airline. Some people even use a wheel collar for this so to have one gear retract at a slower speed than the other. It looks cool and scale, but I don't want to complicate things more than they already are.

    I think most jet guys are in agreement that they would rather have the gear function properly than function scale and fail them on landing. Watch someone with a 25,000 dollar jet, those gears on those things slam up and down, but most of the time they work.
    Gary-Waco Brother#171 If the build gets tough, always refrain from throwing things! ARCA, Austin Tx. www.austinrc.org

  3. #178
    redbiscuits's Avatar
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    RE: Top Flite Giant P-47 Build

    I learn a lot from ol' B-1 Bob, If you guys get a chance watch some of his videos, he is a master.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58Izty3bZIg
    Gary-Waco Brother#171 If the build gets tough, always refrain from throwing things! ARCA, Austin Tx. www.austinrc.org

  4. #179

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    RE: Top Flite Giant P-47 Build

    True enough. Are the electrics more expensive?

    HoundDog, I'm not in the market for the sequencer yet (probably not for a good year or so) but thanks for the offer. It gives me something to think about...

    Deryk
    Deryk - ol Cape Cod
    Building Newbie - TF Giant P-47

  5. #180
    redbiscuits's Avatar
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    RE: Top Flite Giant P-47 Build

    Working on the belly pan....
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    Gary-Waco Brother#171 If the build gets tough, always refrain from throwing things! ARCA, Austin Tx. www.austinrc.org

  6. #181

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    RE: Top Flite Giant P-47 Build

    Are you making the wings removable? I can't see from the instructions (yes, I downloaded and read through them) if it designed to be removable or not...
    Deryk - ol Cape Cod
    Building Newbie - TF Giant P-47

  7. #182
    redbiscuits's Avatar
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    RE: Top Flite Giant P-47 Build

    Yes, They are removable since this is an 85" wingspan. I think you may be talking about plug in outer wing panels, the answer to that is no, this is a one piece removable wing.




    As with a lot of TF kits, the sheeting tends to have flat spots in it from the stringers (or lack thereof) having a pretty far spacing in the bulkheads. In the fuse I added some extras, and the same thing here too. There is plenty of room to add another stringer to keep the sheeting more round. The bulkhead 3C must have been mis-cut at the factory, because the stringer didn't follow the notches, I simply moved the notch.
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    Gary-Waco Brother#171 If the build gets tough, always refrain from throwing things! ARCA, Austin Tx. www.austinrc.org

  8. #183

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    RE: Top Flite Giant P-47 Build

    I just couldn't see from the instructions where the bolts went. It looked like the wings were permanently attached. Cool! 

    With some tax refund etc, I'm going to order from my local hobby shop and get going! How hard is it to build? This'll be my first build since I was a kid and I've been advised that bigger is easier for a build.
    Deryk - ol Cape Cod
    Building Newbie - TF Giant P-47

  9. #184
    redbiscuits's Avatar
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    RE: Top Flite Giant P-47 Build

    There are a lot of things to consider before tackling a build of this size, space and commitment being just two of them. You will need a solid, LEVEL building surface such as a solid core door to lay out your plans and build over the top of them. Some of the steps in the building process can take up to a week or more to complete, so having enough space to work while leaving the build-up pinned in place is almost mandatory. Also I don't now how well tooled you are for building, razor saws, sanding bars, blades, squares, straight edges, drills, bits, tap and dies, soldering iron, etc, etc,...Buying all this stuff at once could be very expensive.

    Although this is a very well engineered kit, I don't think it's geared towards a beginner. If you want to build, I would suggest something a little smaller to get your feet wet again. Maybe a Carl Goldberg Super Chipmunk or something along those lines. I would just hate to see you get overwhelmed and burned out halfway through a build.
    I scratch built a giant stick from RCM plans 2 years ago. It goes fast, not a lot of "extras" to buy, and you have a plane you can head to the field with in a couple of months, not a year later.
    I'm not trying to discourage you in the least, I know how exciting it can be dreaming about a gorgeous warbird, then reality sets in when a giant box of sticks arrives at your door and your already 250.00 in the hole, and that's just the beginning.

    I did a build on my Rebel, have a look through it and see what you think. I even built it twice!
    http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_96...tm.htm#9802406

    But if you have your heart set on a big warbird, then I say go for it, you will learn a lot in the process. If you get stuck, there are a lot of nice folks on here that will give you 100 different ways of getting you unstuck.
    Most of all, take your time and do a good job.
    Gary-Waco Brother#171 If the build gets tough, always refrain from throwing things! ARCA, Austin Tx. www.austinrc.org

  10. #185

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    RE: Top Flite Giant P-47 Build

    Yeah, I have a guy around here that built the exact same one, so if I get stuck I could even take parts over to his house or ask him to come over. It is easier from what I hear the bigger the plane is. I thought of doing a smaller one, but if I'm going to end up building a big one anyway sometime, I might as well build this one.... I don't know at this point.

    I am really good with my hands and I love building. I see what you mean about the commitment in it. How long has it take you to build? I do have the room and surfaces to build and most of the tools. I'll need bar sanders and a razor saw etc... I can get the kit and start the build while I'm getting better and better at flying. 
    Deryk - ol Cape Cod
    Building Newbie - TF Giant P-47

  11. #186

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    RE: Top Flite Giant P-47 Build

    I also teach at a high school that has quite a wood-shop, so that'll be a huge advantage. What did you use for glue? Zap, epoxy, Not sure of the best thing to use...
    Deryk - ol Cape Cod
    Building Newbie - TF Giant P-47

  12. #187
    Doomking's Avatar
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    RE: Top Flite Giant P-47 Build

    Biscuits
    If you still looking for the green cromate for your inner doors, I used the Krylon can at Lowe's. Pretty close in color and I used it on my GS TF P-51 and the small version of the TF P-47.
    On the bench next is of course the GS TF P-47. All components already been bought, Robart gear, Zenoah G62, Robart scale wheels, smoke sys, Scale cockpit, Razorback canopy.
    I have to agree with you on glassing.
    When I glass my planes I always use the Poly sys with great results. Also I do rivets both ways with canopy glue (raised kind) and burned ones with trim iron. Panels lines with 1/64 chart tape.
    Everyone has their own method that are comfortable with which doesn't make all the other ones less viable.

    Fabio

  13. #188
    Doomking's Avatar
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    RE: Top Flite Giant P-47 Build

    Cape....
    You will need for sure few types of glue for the build.
    5 min and 30 minutes epoxies.
    Thin, Medium and Thick CA.
    Stay with brand names and you will do just fine.
    For the epoxies if you are not familiar, if in doubt always use the longer set time. More often than not 5 min epoxies turns to be 3 min and the 30 min like 20.
    If this is your first KIT build I have to agree once again with biscuits.
    Even though you think that building big it is easier, it actually requires more of your time and expense than the smaller version one. Big scale = Big investment in time and money.
    Top Flite also offer the P-47 Kit in a 60 size which is the exact replica of the giant scale one, but it goes together rather quickly with roughly half of the investment and with the same great flight characteristic of any Top Flite plane.
    The box alone is half of the GS size just to give you an idea how much more wood is there to put together.
    If you want to invest in one plane alone, than I would go with the giant scale.
    Even though it will require more time ,money and patience, it will be almost impossible to wipe that smile off your face the first time you make a low pass WOT across your flying field.
    Good luck either way.

    Fabio

  14. #189
    HoundDog's Avatar
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    RE: Top Flite Giant P-47 Build

    You said"On the bench next is of course the GS TF P-47. All components already been bought, Robart gear, Zenoah G62, Robart scale wheels, smoke sys, Scale cockpit, Razorback canopy." U said you are using Robart Gear and Wheels. Anyway the wheels that come with the AF Vesion are 6" Dia and 1-5/16" Wide. The reason is I lost one in the corn last year and tried t use a number of differant wheels all were 1-1/2" in width and wuld not fit all the way in the wheel well. No one that I could find made a wheel that was 6" Dia by 1-5/16" wide. Anyway it's the only Items that you can not buy as a replacement from Top Flight. My question is are the Wheel Well insertes on the Kit deep enough to accomidate the 1-1/2 wide wheels and allow the gear to close compleatly?
    Remember ... Every one of these Things we fly Comes with a Number, When the R/C Gods call that Number, it's going in a Garbage Bag, No Sniveling Allowed.
    P-47 Thunderbolt Brotherhood #24 & #43

  15. #190
    redbiscuits's Avatar
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    RE: Top Flite Giant P-47 Build

    1.5" wide x 5" wheels will work, but just barely. I had to shim up the inner side of the retract to accomadate for them. I almost had to shim them up so much that the 85 degree stance looks more like 90 degrees now. I am using the 5" Dubro inflatable wheels as recommended by TF. 5" wheels will work if you shim them up, or you could go with 4.5" and probably keep the 85 degree stance. I had to go with 1/2 inch smaller wheels on my 60 size because the recommended wheels just wouldn't retract dependably every time, and they would hang up sometime when coming down.
    I'm going to keep the 5" and just deal with the stance being off a little for now. If I start having problems when I get everything hooked up, I may have to go with smaller wheels. I will see when I get there.
    I don't see any posible way of 6" tires being able to retract unless you move the whole gear back to the scale position as Peter Oz did in the big thread in the warbird section.
    Gary-Waco Brother#171 If the build gets tough, always refrain from throwing things! ARCA, Austin Tx. www.austinrc.org

  16. #191

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    RE: Top Flite Giant P-47 Build

    Is there any need to make the landing gear tilt an additional 15° forward, like on a P-51? I've heard some guys mod that, so just out of curiosity... I'm assuming that is stability in landing. Or is that what you are talking about and I'm misunderstanding?
    Deryk
    Deryk - ol Cape Cod
    Building Newbie - TF Giant P-47

  17. #192
    redbiscuits's Avatar
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    RE: Top Flite Giant P-47 Build

    I don't think you can get 15 degrees but you might be able to get a few. Anything will help on a nose heavy warbird, especially if you plan to fly off a grass field. It's just something you have to play with when building. You can shave a little off the maple gear mounts to achieve a little rake forward but that's about it. If you go to far with it then it will affect something else in the operation.

    You will see how fun retracts really are when you get there.
    Gary-Waco Brother#171 If the build gets tough, always refrain from throwing things! ARCA, Austin Tx. www.austinrc.org

  18. #193

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    RE: Top Flite Giant P-47 Build

    Do I detect a hint of sarcasm?
    Deryk - ol Cape Cod
    Building Newbie - TF Giant P-47

  19. #194
    redbiscuits's Avatar
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    RE: Top Flite Giant P-47 Build

    Retracts and gear doors will do that to any good man. If my wife sees me working on retracts she will head the opposite direction.

    Being new here Deryk, you may not know yet of the "another bloody one" thread in the warbird section. It is years in the making and is a good lesson in building this kit.
    http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_22..._1/key_/tm.htm

    You can search a lot of different things in there, almost every possible modification of this kit has been covered by lots of different people.
    Gary-Waco Brother#171 If the build gets tough, always refrain from throwing things! ARCA, Austin Tx. www.austinrc.org

  20. #195
    redbiscuits's Avatar
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    RE: Top Flite Giant P-47 Build


    ORIGINAL: Doomking


    If you still looking for the green cromate for your inner doors, I used the Krylon can at Lowe's. Pretty close in color and I used it on my GS TF P-51 and the small version of the TF P-47.
    Fabio
    Fabio, Thanks! I'll look into that. Was it called green cromate or does it go by another color name?
    Gary-Waco Brother#171 If the build gets tough, always refrain from throwing things! ARCA, Austin Tx. www.austinrc.org

  21. #196
    HoundDog's Avatar
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    RE: Top Flite Giant P-47 Build


    ORIGINAL: redbiscuits

    I don't think you can get 15 degrees but you might be able to get a few. Anything will help on a nose heavy warbird, especially if you plan to fly off a grass field. It's just something you have to play with when building. You can shave a little off the maple gear mounts to achieve a little rake forward but that's about it. If you go to far with it then it will affect something else in the operation.

    You will see how fun retracts really are when you get there.
    The ARF Version the "TARHEEL HAL" Balances perfectly with a G-62 Up Front and the Retracts in their proper place seem to work perfect as is. Iwould have to cot out the bottem of the plastic wheel well if I were to use a wheel wider than the one supplied with the Model. If U look at the world models Giant Scale Version the whole gear struts are placed at about a 10 to 12 degree angle to the leading edge to acheive the forward sweep. That would be to much work and It's not needed. Just my 2 cents worth.
    Remember ... Every one of these Things we fly Comes with a Number, When the R/C Gods call that Number, it's going in a Garbage Bag, No Sniveling Allowed.
    P-47 Thunderbolt Brotherhood #24 & #43

  22. #197
    HoundDog's Avatar
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    RE: Top Flite Giant P-47 Build

    Some Interesting Reading for P-47 Buffs List of Surviving  Birds:



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...7_Thunderbolts

    Remember ... Every one of these Things we fly Comes with a Number, When the R/C Gods call that Number, it's going in a Garbage Bag, No Sniveling Allowed.
    P-47 Thunderbolt Brotherhood #24 & #43

  23. #198
    redbiscuits's Avatar
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    RE: Top Flite Giant P-47 Build


    ORIGINAL: HoundDog

    Anyway the wheels that come with the AF Vesion are 6'' Dia and 1-5/16'' Wide. The reason is I lost one in the corn last year and tried t use a number of differant wheels all were 1-1/2'' in width and wuld not fit all the way in the wheel well. No one that I could find made a wheel that was 6'' Dia by 1-5/16'' wide. Anyway it's the only Items that you can not buy as a replacement from Top Flight. My question is are the Wheel Well insertes on the Kit deep enough to accomidate the 1-1/2 wide wheels and allow the gear to close compleatly?
    I see what your problem is. If you pull the plastic wheel wells out you may have to trim the ribs to get the 5" wheels to retract all the way. You would also need to glass the inside of the wheel wells to give the sheeting on top more strength.
    The closest thing to the 1-5/16 wide is the Dubro Lightweight 4-1/2" wheels. But it sounds like you may not want that small of a wheel. Scale size for this plane is 5-1/2" I think.
    http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXD784&P=ML
    Gary-Waco Brother#171 If the build gets tough, always refrain from throwing things! ARCA, Austin Tx. www.austinrc.org

  24. #199
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    RE: Top Flite Giant P-47 Build

    The green krylon paint at lowe's that I bought looked real close to green chromate.
    I just looked at the can cover to get an idea of the color and I think I found a pretty close one.
    If you need it I can post a pics of the real can.

    Fabio

  25. #200
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    RE: Top Flite Giant P-47 Build

    If it's not to much trouble Fabio I would really appreciate a photo.
    Gary-Waco Brother#171 If the build gets tough, always refrain from throwing things! ARCA, Austin Tx. www.austinrc.org


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