scale only 4 me

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Brushing lacquer just has less reducer (thinner) in it,, the more thinner the faster it goes off (dries). Sherman Williams also sells Brushing Lacquer, pricey at around $15/qt. but good quality,, I have used it.

Sanding Sealer is pretty much just Lacquer with Talc Powder mixed in, the talc helps it build and fill the grain. It also separates and the Talc settles to the bottom of the can very quickly, this coupled with the fast evaporation properties of lacquer makes it thicken up in the can. Keep the lid on always, and keep it mixed. Stir the can before each time you pour it out.

Best place to find Regular Lacquer is your Mom and Pop Paint store, the Big Box stores don't always have it. Typically a Gallon is around $25. I was in my local Lowe's the other day and noticed the Deft was $10/qt. the also had that Cabot SS @ $15/qt. I'd guess that the stuff they are selling for the DIY ers is more like the Brushing Lacquer thickness, where as the stuff you buy at a Pro Paint store will be intended to be sprayed (thinner but cheaper/gallon)

p.s.
GB, when I lived in CA I used to get my lacquer from Frazee, there's a few stores in the Vegas area too,, Frazee was one of the few store that would mix custom color lacquer.

heritageman

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Thanks guys, that was a lot of help. I'm thinking of trying that method on my p47 jug, with latex, and nelson clear coat. Does this come out to be a durable finish?

Gray Beard

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The glass you can hit with a hammer, the paint, not so much. If you use Klass Kote two part epoxy it is bullet proof. I used acetone to remove some over spray and it didn't remove the KK. After a crash the glass and paint didn't peel or chip. KK has a good web site with all the info you need.
Thanks scale, that's pretty much what I thought. My friend that gave me the web site to the Deft system asked me why I wasn't using the brushing lacquer any longer. I just couldn't find it and the sealer worked just as well. It only cost a bit over $8.00 a quart here. The brushing is $15.00 on line. I ran out of Deft the other day after glassing the wing so I haven't gotten to the fuse yet. Not in any hurry, after I'm finished glassing I have to sand. I have no words for how much I hate sanding. That's anything, not just planes!!

heritageman

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Gray Beard, klasskote is the best and priced to be. Rock solid.

Gray Beard

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For those of us on a very fixed income Klass kote pricing is out of line. I will agree it is the best paint I have used sense the old K&B two part epoxy. $60.00 is a bit too much for me just to paint a two tone 60 size plane like a Kaos. At that price it doesn't include there thinner or primer or shipping. That's why I'm using Latex on this build. Easy to locate, cheap to buy , very easy to color match and located at any good hardware store. Works well on gas powered planes but not on glow. Klass Kote is also not the lightest of paints but until I finish this build I can't compare the weight to latex.

heritageman

My Feedback: (4)

I'll be tuned in to see your outcome. Looking good so far.

yel914

Gene, thanks for this very useful thread. I'll give it a try on my next build. I'm just finishing up a Heinkel 51 and tried out a few painting ideas on it. I sprayed it with latex paint and then a couple of mist coats of Lustercoat for fuel proofing. Lustercoat eventually caused small hairline cracking-so that's out. I then shot Minwax polycrylic over the latex and Lustercoat over the polyc. The polyc seems to act as a barrier over the latex with great results.

johnboy151a

My Feedback: (68)

Sorry for the off topic question. Do you have any pics of your HE-51 build? Is this from the RCM plans?
John

Gray Beard

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The thread is over, now it's just shooting the breeze. I picked up a lot of good info from it and discovered a couple of snarks. Yel, knowing latex isn't fuel proof in the least I wouldn't do a complete plane with it. I have gotten away using it then giving it several fine coats of LK Clear and gotten away without cracking. Those were small parts though. Being gas powered the latex is fine for ths build. During the build I had a thought or two about going glow this time and doing the build as a light weight stock then going with a YS 1.20. I didn't. If I didn't have an engine for this plane I would have given the DLE 30 a lot of thought and done fewer mods. At this point in time with all the new gas engines on the market people would be silly to buy a glow engine. The cost of the fuel has gotten way out of hand and the price of the engines has gone up. My problem, I have boxes of glow engines. Can't sell them, don't want to give them away so I tend to still use them.

All Day Dan

My Feedback: (5)

Don't leave us now. Tell us what you do after the Deft is applied. Do you use a sandable primer? How about the paint? Dan.

yel914

Gene, I know it's a gamble with latex on a glow powered plane, but the advantages are just too tempting. Low cost, any color you want, easy to work with. Nelson's Clear Coat does a good job of fuel proofing, but it's a little unforgiving in this area (dries too fast) and not too cheap. The Lustercoat was worth a shot, but I'll probably keep trying other coatings just for fun. The gassers are nice but the sound of a four stroke is music to the ears!
Johnboy, the HE51 is from Hobby Helper CL plans I enlarged to 60" WS. Feel free to PM me if you need more info. Here's a teaser.

bigtim

My Feedback: (13)

another fuel proof clear comes from www.warbirdcolors.com I have used it for several projects and it works well and its water clean up you need to add a catalyst/hardener for the fuel proof affect but its a solid product for applying over latex if you want to use a glow engine

bigtim

My Feedback: (13)

Dan a sandable auto primer works well the Rust-O-leum rattle can stuff is decent,its also a high build paint so you can really lay it on and when its dry it sands really smooth,I have been using warbirdcolors paints for glow projects and there primer is outstanding and sticks to just about every surface I have used it on, it also sands well

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

I have mentioned before I'm sure, I'm the worlds worst person to ask anything about painting, a true hack. I give hacks a bad name. In the past I have painted one with just auto primer and Klass Kote and one with ZERO primer and some old Sig Lacquer paint. I think it was lacquer anyway. I shot one with Lusterkote and used there primer. The glass work comes out so smooth and when it gasses off I think almost any paint will stick right to the glass/lacquer without any problem. When I prime I end up sanding most of it off anyway so I don't give it a lot of thought. Someone like Scale may give you a better answer or any of the true scale builders.
Just for fun I may do a thread on painting this plane if it comes out worth mentioning. If it doesn't then I will just hide my head in shame again after another botched job.

All Day Dan

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Thanks, Dan.

stevenmax50

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I just finished covering a P-51 with 3/4 oz cloth and 2 part glass resin.  Sure wish I had seen this thread first.

Gray Beard

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Steve just sent me a page about glassing and all I could do was laugh. It delt with how not to get those nasty wrikles in the glass when using resin. I'm sorry but here are a couple of photos of my round fuse after two coats of Deft, notice there are no wrinkles in the glass, not even over the turttle deck. I did it in one sheet over the top and one over the bottom. I did the back half of the fuse first then the front half. You can't even find the seams and there is now some light sanding to do and then the third coat before I do the final 50/50 coat. I lay the glass down dry, smooth out any wrinkles I can then brush the deft down the center of the fuse. That holds the glass down. Then I brush from the center down or at an angle, sort of like I do with a heat gun when shrinking covering. It just chases the wrinkles out and down. It's not a deep thinking process.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

Finished glassing but haven't sanded yet. The plane is covered with a really heavy coating of the 50/50 final coat. I really put it on heavy but it's really easy to sand off, just really messy when you sand off the baby powder. I will have to do it tomorrow morning. A monsoon is blowing in so it's too hot and muggy to be outdoors sanding right now.
The plane started out at 6 pounds, as thick as the final coat is, it now came in at 7 pounds 3 ounces. I'm betting it comes in at the mid 6 pound range when finished. 1.3 pounds isn't even bad for a plane this size. This is the first time I have ever bothered to weigh a plane before, during and after so I'm really wanting to know how it comes out myself.
Gene

All Day Dan

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Gene, Is the 50/50 coat applied with a brush and was the Deft thinned? Dan.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

I don't thin the deft for any of the steps. I buy those cheap throw away brushes, run a bead of thin CA along the crimped edge so I don't get a lot of brush hair in the work. I was just tossing the brushes then I discovered if I put the brush in a baggie and removed the air from the bag then sealed it the brush could be used over and over day after day. That saved a bunch of money.
I use those pudding cups a lot in my shop for things like epoxy mixing and I use them to measure the baby powder and deft. One to one. I just toss the powder in a big plastic container then the deft and stir. The reason I put it on so thick is I like to empty the plastic container so i can use it again. I'm not going to waste the mix so I slather it all on even if it doesn't need it. It sands right off.
My plan is to sand tomorrow but Harbor freight has a sale on the HVLP spray gun, $10.00 so maybe I can put the sanding off for another day?? A road trip sounds like a lot more fun to me!!!

drube

I'm going to try deft on my H9 Hellcatand noticed that there is also a spray can version at Lowes. www.lowes.com/pd_84835-1075-015-13_0__ I wonder how many cans I would go through instead of brusing it on. Any thoughts?

Thanks

All Day Dan

My Feedback: (5)

Gene, Thanks for the reply. I always applied the lacquer based sandable auto primer over the sealer. The next time, I'll use the talc method. It's a good idea that I never thought of.

drube, I tried spraying the sealer once and it did not work. The sealer just laid down over the cloth and did not fill the weave. It takes the brushing actition to get a good fill. Dan.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

The brushing goes right through the glass and anchors it then you are able to chase the glass wrinkles away and smooth it out, sort of like chasing the plastic covering with a heat gun. I have never tried the spray for glassing but I doubt it would work. This isn't like painting, you sort of just slather it on. Neatness doesn't count at all. When I said i had globs of the finish coat I wasn't joking. Globs just means it's on thicker and I have to lean a bit harder on my sanding block.You can buy a can of spray and try it, see how it works. This complete plane used 1 and 1/4 ouart of deft and that was me just slathering it on. 1 quart would have been fine for someone trying to be neat with there work. I'm going to have to run my building board through the over head sander at the wood shop just to clean it off.
Mr. Piggy

drube

Thanks guys, i'll stick to brushing it on.