clawhorn

Hi guys,
My name is Cody. I am 26 and Ihave been flying for 4 years now. I have purchased a couple used planes and have had to do some repair work, which gave me a taste of building. Now that my living situation has settled, I am looking to get into a my first build up from a kit. Iwanted some suggestions of a good, well planned kit that has step by step instructions and doesnt required the expertise of a well experienced builder, to put together. Iam not really a beginner, because I have done some extensive repair work on some balsa planes such as the carl goldberg eagle 2. I really want to build a piper cub or Decathlon because I really enjoy the flight characteristics of a classic tail dragger top wing plane. What kits do you guys suggest. Also if anyone has one they would sell that hasnt been started yet..please let me know!
Thanks guys.

Cody Lawhorn.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

For Cubs the easiest one I have found to build was the Great Planes. I'm not sure if you can still get the SIG or not. A bit harder one to build and I mean just a bit is the Goldberg anniversary Cub. Anything by Great Planes and SIG have very step by step instructions so are the instructions on the CG Cub but it has a bit higher parts count but I like the CG Cub best of all. I built one this year for a friend and he bought the glass cowl and LG from Fiberglass Specialties so it was even better. Tower used to have a great Decathlon kit but I'm not sure if it's still made or not. I haven't had a Decathlon come across my bench in a long time so I don't know what is out there today.

stevenmax50

My Feedback: (1)

I suggest going to the Sig or Goldberg website and picking out the one that looks good to you.  You cant go wrong with any of those. 

clawhorn

Thanks for the replys. Are there any other top win tail dragger scale planes that you migh suggest I look at in the kits?

EscapeFlyer

My Feedback: (1)

If you can land a Stick... That would be my suggestion for "other" top wing tail dragger. Nowadays you need to plans build one from RCM plans service. Das Ugly Stick by Phil Kraft...

I'd stick with a cub, Great planes.

Would you consider a mid-wing? Sig Something Extra or a Mid-Star?

Brian

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Just to throw some more info at you...

Clipped-wing cubs fly the best - The Full-Size wing is just too big.

The Carl Goldberg Cub (Clipped) is my favorite flier, but the instructions leave something to be desired.

The Great Planes has excellent instructions, but they clip the wing a little too short - by about 6". So if you leave one more rib on each side, you'll have a better plane.

Sig has two in about the same size - One has good instruction, while the older one does not, and I'm not sure which is which (Can anyone out there identify them?)

One more thing... Read this, it has lots of good info:

[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/article_display.cfm?article_id=1196]Kit Building 101[/link]

smithcreek

My Feedback: (25)

Midwest made a very nice Citabria kit, 80" wing that flys very well on a .91 four stroke. That kit is out of production but not too hard to find here on RCU or ebay. A friend has one and it does great scale aerobatics, flies and lands slow. Dynaflite still makes a Decathalon with an 89" wing that flys well also, and a small gas engine is perfect. IMO both of these are a bit more aerobatic and easier to take off and land than a cub.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

Because kits are being discontinued very fast these days it's hard to keep up with what is out there. The Taylor Kraft was also a good one but all of the stunt type high wing planes borrowed heavily from the Cub. What Minn mentioned about the clipping of the Cub wing is a great way to go if you want a high wing plane that stunts well. Out of the three Cub kits I like the way the Anniversary Carl Goldberg fly's the best. It's also the strongest one of the bunch. I didn't know SIG had two models of the Cub. When someone brings me a kit to build it is usually the GP or CG. Over the last few years it has been the CG Cub I see the most. This year I built one and it was a full wing for use on and off the water. It really is a nice flying machine.
The Tower Taylor was a .25 model, if you don't mind small then House of Balsa had one too.

clawhorn

Wow thanks for the advice. Why does the clip wing cub fly better than the standard cub? Also, is the clipped wing Cub a different kit, or does it just have a different main wing modification option in the build process? I really do like the look of the Taylor Craft.
 @ Ilikebipes - I would consider a mid wing plane. I just have never flown one except on the simulator. I have hundreds of hours logged on the simulator, but I thought a top wing plane would be fun to build, and potentially less easy to crash right away. I really want to build a P-51 Mustang too, however I just have always liked the classic flying style of the Piper Cub. Why do you suggest a mid wing like the Sig Something Extra / Midstar?
@ Minnflyer - thanks for the suggestion on reading the article. As coincidence has it, I actually read the entire article before writting this post. That is where I got the idea to probe for suggestions before going out a buying one.

Thank you,

DeferredDefect

I've built the Goldberg Cub with a full span wing recently. It flies wonderfully and floats forever, and is not difficult to build. Importantly, it is very durable and will take a lot of abuse before showing any damage. The Sig kit is better quality and is more involved in the building process, but looks better in the end. Both can also be flown from floats or skis, which is lots of fun, but I think the Goldberg model is better suited to this. Goldberg makes a float kit just for this purpose.
I've flown another pilot's clipped wing Goldberg Cub, which is much more fun than the full span model. Landings are a little bit hotter, but this is not really an issue, especially if you are flying from a grass field. Aerobatics are much cleaner and the roll rate is quicker. I'm currently restoring a clipped wing Goldberg Cub and hope to have it flying in about a month. The construction is almost identical to the full span, minus the shorter wingspan, which is built in the same manner in both models.

You could also try the Sig Citabria, which looks pretty, but I have no experience with it. 

Sig Citabria
http://sigmfg.com/cgi-bin/dpsmart.ex...FV5.html?E+Sig

Sig Cub (full span)
http://sigmfg.com/cgi-bin/dpsmart.ex...FV5.html?E+Sig

Sig Cub (Clipped wing)
http://sigmfg.com/cgi-bin/dpsmart.ex...FV5.html?E+Sig

smithcreek

My Feedback: (25)

Duh, forgot to mention the Sib Citabria. I've never even seen one fly so can't vouch for it personally, but a friend had one and liked it. It's a Sig kit so it should be excellent quality.

Graemellis beat me to the post!

[link=http://sigmfg.com/cgi-bin/dpsmart.exe/MainMenuFV5.html?E+Sig]Sig Citabria[/link]

WacoNut

I have built the AMR 33% J-3 Cub, Sig 1/4 Clipped Wing, G/P 40 Cub and 3 Goldberg Cubs over the years.

The Goldberg Cub builds nice and is a decent flyer. The G/P Cub builds nice and is a good flyer and looks more scale. The Sig 1/6 and 1/4 Cubs are builders kits. These are alot of stick construction and take alot of effort but build into really nice planes. The Sig 1/5 Cub is a modern design and is a very nice build and looks very scale.

If I were to build another smaller Cub it would be the Sig 1/5.
Good Luck!!
Anthony

clawhorn

Sounds like alot of good reviews on the clipped wing cub. Have you guys ever built and flown a Great Planes Decathlon 40? I have the chance to pick up a kit for a fairly good price. However after doing more research, it seems these planes are not great flying planes. Alot of comments being made on this plane being very heavy and tip stalling. I never heard of tip stalling? Can someone tell me more about this? Also I have heard alot of recommendations of people saying to build the wing with Washout. What is washout? Should I scrap the idea of building a decathlon and stick to a cub?

huck1199

A nicelow wing kit is the Sig 4 Star 40 or 60. Not much harder to fly than a high wing.

WacoNut

Tip stalling is when the plane stalls it will drop a wing tip. This can be really tricky on landing or if pulling off the ground too quick before good flying speed is reached.

A Cub will teach you how to fly with rudder especially with the full wing version. I have built both versions and the clipped wing is fun for throwing around and the full wing is a good relaxing fun airplane. The fun part about flying a Cub for me is to try and make it look scale. In order to make a nice co-ordinated turn in a Cub you must use rudder to counteract the adverse yaw from the large wing.
I like flying low and slow
Anthony

SeamusG

Hey Cody - check with Jerry at Thompson's Hobbies (Wads just north of Colfax on west side 303.238.5821). He's one or our area's best builders. He's definitely old school w/ electric power but makes for an excellent building mentor. And, Jerry has an excellent selection of good wood. Please buy local to keep our LHSlocal. If you're familiar with Arvada Associated Modelers check with Dan Undercoffer (spelling) who is also a very good builder - pattern, electric, foam, composites. There's a couple of other good pattern builders (Lanny, Mike & Joe P.). Obviously I'm not so good with the names. Duane Gaus (vacuum fiberglass fabrication) - pylon racer. Also, Chris Harris did a very decent Citrabria a couple of years ago.

Without a doubt - ya gotta do a build thread so that the gurus can up their posting counts.

JollyPopper

My Feedback: (6)

I have no firsthand knowledge concerning the cubs you guys mention. I like 'em all. But the 81" Midwest Citabria builds into a beautiful airplane. I would seriously recommend one to anyone.

SeamusG

There's a full sized Citabria locally flown (Boulder airport I think). If you do one it might be interesting to visit the full sized one. PM me if you're interested - owner is a client of a friend.

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

When the original Cub was designed, they used a squirrel in a cage for an engine. It needed a HUGE wing in order to generate enough lift to fly - It would be like flying a 40 size Cub with a 25 engine.

Later, pilots realized that if you put a real engine in it, it performed MUCH better, AND with the extra power, they didn't need all of the extra drag provided by that HUGE wing, so they literally "Clipped" a few feet off of each side.

The biggest problem with the big wing is that due to it's length, it generates a lot of Adverse Yaw. you can actually see it yaw to the left in a right-hand turn (And vice versa).

The clipped wing eliminates the excess yaw and will allow it to do some very nice aerobatics, but the plane will still float like a trainer.

It is actually MORE difficult to fly with the full-size wing due to the fact that you have to move that huge surfboard-sized wing through the air. Straight flight is ok, but turns result in a lot of adverse yaw.

Build the clipped wing - even if you're a rookie.

As for the Citabria, this is NOTHING like a Cub!!! The Citabria is an ADVANCED airplane. I have seen many very experienced pilots crash a Citabria because they expected Cub-like flying characteristics.

A Citabria has a fully-symmetrical wing and a very short tail. They are notorious for snapping on takeoff or landing if you don't know what you're doing.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

Mike, I want to thank you for that, I have never heard that story of the Cub before but it has that ring of truth so I will repeat it often. I think Mike went through everything about clipping the wing. The roll rate really does improve with a shorter wing. I enjoy flying both the full length and clipped.
Like all new pilots I just had to have a cooler plane so one of my very first stunt planes was the GP 40 size Decathlon. I used a OS .70FS for power, WOW!!!!!! I really loved the plane and learned a lot from it, things like never taking my eyes off the plane while flying. I had no problems with ground looping or taking off and landing. Last year I had a Decath giant scale with a 90 inch wing. It was an ARF I got in a trade. It flew just like any of them, very well. I traded it off for a couple gallons of fuel though. I had it right at the time I was getting sick of big planes so I didn't have it long.
Too many people think {as Mike mentioned} that because it looks like a Cub it should fly like one. Nothing could be farther from the truth. The Decath is a high performance plane.
By the way, I love watching the adverse Yaw of the full wing Cub. I think it looks cool. How to build a clipper is shown on the plans, you just leave off a couple of wing bays but build the wing as usual.

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Note: A Decathlon and a Citabria are the same plane - It's just that the Decathlon has a bigger engine

smithcreek

My Feedback: (25)

Citabria also had a flat bottom wing, which may explain why the Midwest Citabria (which has a flat bottom wing) is pretty darn easy to fly. They may have also stretched the fuse and enlarged the tailfeathers.

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

I stand corrected

Ok, they are VERY SIMILAR

clawhorn

Thanks for all of the input guys. I went ahead and made a decision. I found a GP Super Decathlon .40 kit version for a good price so I bought it. I should have it in about 1.5 weeks from now. Once I get it , Ill be sure to do a well documented build and post pics as I go. Man I am so pumped to get this build project started, I cant wait. What size engine should I fly it with? I heard a couple of people say they are using a .70 engine to fly it with, what do you guys think?

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

70 4-stroke