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***CUB BROTHERHOOD***

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Old 08-04-2014, 09:49 PM
  #2501  
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Originally Posted by mnemennth View Post
While I won't comment on the senseless destruction of the atmosphere discussed here; any compressed gas BB gun of this sort can most certainly very easily be converted to CO2 used for Airsoft. It's like... made for it.

As for the R12... I've learned the hard way the joys of "retrofitting" to R134A; I say keep it and fix your older vehicle's AC properly, recover what R12 you can from the system, make double-damned sure you have no leaks and recharge with your very precious stock of R12.

Either that, or look into some of the classic car forums and sell it there for those who want to make show quality restorations; probably get enough to fund a whole new plane. Or a proper refit (with a proper aftermarket R134A evaporator and condenser) so your R134A-equipped car gets nice and cold, just like it did with R12.


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Tsssssssssssssssssssssss...


Originally Posted by acdii View Post
R-12 is going back a LONG way. Our oldest car is a 1995 and its R134a. If R12 is so expensive, what is it called Fre-on. OK I know very bad joke. My Cub made me do it.
lol, yeah R12 was a very efficient / effective refrigerant... R134a is, and has always been sub pare in comparison; although there are some replacement R134a refrigerants, which are an improved formulation of R134a with a 50% improved efficiency (so they claim)... then there's your R12 replacements, like Freeze12 which is no longer produced (got a few cans of that laying around as well)... enviro-safe 12a is another replacement for R12, but they are just a band-aid... as mnem states, doing a proper "clean" conversion to 134a is the way to go, but it's not cheap; compressor, dryer, hoses, expansion valve / orifice where applicable, evaporator / condenser where applicable, flush kit... and all has to be done correctly or it will be a money pit to try and maintain.... all I want is cold air, lol


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Old 08-04-2014, 10:54 PM
  #2502  
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Well, no. Auto AC is pretty easy, actually. ALWAYS flush the system, ALWAYS replace the Accumulator/Receiver Dryer to dispose of accumulated contaminants and oil, always drain the compressor of oil and then install the recommended amount of the correct oil for the type of refrigerant being used. You CAN retrofit a 1967 Chevelle with the original radial compressor to R134A and have it blow ice cubes, just as cold as an R12 system. I've done it.

The big issue with R134A is not that it's an "inferior" refrigerant; it's actually a better refrigerant. It runs cleaner, the synthetic oil used with it means compressors (as long as they remain uncontaminated) run twice as long, and they run cooler as well.

You just have to engineer the AC system correctly. R134A has a higher latent temperature; it also has a greater expansion coefficient when it changes state. This means that to work correctly, it has to operate in a high volume mode, where R12 works best in a high pressure differential mode. R12 systems use a series core or "serpentine" condenser; all the refrigerant travels back & forth across the airflow surface. The Evaporator is also usually serpentine core; though some later R12 vehicles were parallel-core; meaning the refrigerant is collected in a manifold at one end, which distributes it so it flows through all the cores simultaneously as it changes state to a gas again.

A proper R134A system has condenser and evaporator that are both parallel core. This is also why native R134A systems tend to have larger diameter tubing; they work on volume, not pressure.

Simple, really. Until they come along with variable displacement compressors; now THAT's all a whole 'nuther ball of wax...


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Old 08-05-2014, 06:01 AM
  #2503  
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I converted a Mercury Sable with a R12 system to R134a and I can say done correctly it was as cool or cooler than the R12.

As for the BB gun I don't think it was out for long about 2 or 3 year, it was probably a liability nightmare. Back then I don't think anyone had ever heard of Global Warming or what freon would do to the environment so we were blissfully ignorant on what we were doing.
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Old 08-05-2014, 06:46 AM
  #2504  
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Originally Posted by FlyerInOKC View Post
I converted a Mercury Sable with a R12 system to R134a and I can say done correctly it was as cool or cooler than the R12.

As for the BB gun I don't think it was out for long about 2 or 3 year, it was probably a liability nightmare. Back then I don't think anyone had ever heard of Global Warming or what freon would do to the environment so we were blissfully ignorant on what we were doing.
Actually that BB gun was for sale for quite some time in the classified sections in the backs of some magazines.
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Old 08-05-2014, 08:27 AM
  #2505  
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I will accept your correction and thank you SrTelemaster150 my memory is a little foggy at best on the subject.
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Old 08-05-2014, 09:31 AM
  #2506  
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Originally Posted by mnemennth View Post
Well, no. Auto AC is pretty easy, actually. ALWAYS flush the system, ALWAYS replace the Accumulator/Receiver Dryer to dispose of accumulated contaminants and oil, always drain the compressor of oil and then install the recommended amount of the correct oil for the type of refrigerant being used. You CAN retrofit a 1967 Chevelle with the original radial compressor to R134A and have it blow ice cubes, just as cold as an R12 system. I've done it.The big issue with R134A is not that it's an "inferior" refrigerant; it's actually a better refrigerant. It runs cleaner, the synthetic oil used with it means compressors (as long as they remain uncontaminated) run twice as long, and they run cooler as well. You just have to engineer the AC system correctly. R134A has a higher latent temperature; it also has a greater expansion coefficient when it changes state. This means that to work correctly, it has to operate in a high volume mode, where R12 works best in a high pressure differential mode. R12 systems use a series core or "serpentine" condenser; all the refrigerant travels back & forth across the airflow surface. The Evaporator is also usually serpentine core; though some later R12 vehicles were parallel-core; meaning the refrigerant is collected in a manifold at one end, which distributes it so it flows through all the cores simultaneously as it changes state to a gas again.A proper R134A system has condenser and evaporator that are both parallel core. This is also why native R134A systems tend to have larger diameter tubing; they work on volume, not pressure.Simple, really. Until they come along with variable displacement compressors; now THAT's all a whole 'nuther ball of wax...mnem*Under pressure*
Well yeah it may be easy for you and I... but trust me I've had to straighten out 134a conversions that were done by a certified tech!!... that was back when they first introduce R134a, and the techs didn't know squat and used the wrong oils which caused the evaporators and condenser to corrode... yes the synthetics oils made it easier for these guys, but a licensed tech is a licensed tech, he should know what he is doing.

I'm old school, I just don't like change, lol

Originally Posted by mnemennth View Post
A proper R134A system has condenser and evaporator that are both parallel core. This is also why native R134A systems tend to have larger diameter tubing; they work on volume, not pressure.








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Old 08-05-2014, 11:08 AM
  #2507  
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I've just been informed via PM, we have gone off topic again... so on that note, lets bring it back on topic; any freon powered piper cubs out there?... I think I'm going to convert my co2 powered piper to run on R22. ... mnem ??



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Old 08-05-2014, 11:11 AM
  #2508  
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Here this should bring it back on track.

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Old 08-05-2014, 11:16 AM
  #2509  
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Nice! I love the paint job!
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Old 08-05-2014, 11:16 AM
  #2510  
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Hey, that's looking nice acdii !!... you won't loose sight of that color scheme.




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Old 08-05-2014, 11:23 AM
  #2511  
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Originally Posted by John_M_ View Post
Well yeah it may be easy for you and I... but trust me I've had to straighten out 134a conversions that were done by a certified tech!!... that was back when they first introduce R134a, and the techs didn't know squat and used the wrong oils which caused the evaporators and condenser to corrode... yes the synthetics oils made it easier for these guys, but a licensed tech is a licensed tech, he should know what he is doing.

I'm old school, I just don't like change, lol






John M,
Yeah... actually... I know exactly what you mean. I was working as a mechanic in the late 90s, when R134A was brand-new (where I went to school for it), and again in the late 00s (down here in Tejas) when everybody and his grandmother down here thought you could just screw a couple fittings on your R-12 clunker and refill it from a spray can and it was "retrofit".

You have no idea how many $1400-2000 estimates I wrote up to fix "my dumba** brother's screwups". Good thing the shop had financing.

The really bad part is... at first the car manufacturers REALLY didn't know how to work with R134A either; there were a number of OEM systems that NEVER worked right straight from the factory because, as we know, many decisions on the assembly line are made by "Management" rather than "Qualified Engineers". The mid-to-late 90s were a nightmare of incorrectly mixed parts, especially from GM and Chrysler. Saturn was actually the first GM line to get it right cuz they started out with young engineers who were designing with R134A in mind, rather than reverse-engineered R12 systems.


[EDIT]
Originally Posted by John_M_ View Post
I've just been informed via PM, we have gone off topic again... so on that note, lets bring it back on topic; any freon powered piper cubs out there?... I think I'm going to convert my co2 powered piper to run on R22. ... mnem ??



John M
What? No Cubs ever had AC retrofit in them?

[/EDIT]

mnem
RIP, Saturn. You were the best of GM; that's why you had to be sacrificed on the altar of Corporate Greed.

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Old 08-05-2014, 11:28 AM
  #2512  
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Hey acdii how about filling us in on all the gory details of that airplane?!
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Old 08-05-2014, 11:36 AM
  #2513  
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Originally Posted by FlyerInOKC View Post
Hey acdii how about filling us in on all the gory details of that airplane?!
Yeah... you got one of theses on there yet?




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Old 08-05-2014, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerInOKC View Post
Hey acdii how about filling us in on all the gory details of that airplane?!
Thats a SIG 1/5th kit, Very nice and light construction, one of the best kits I have built so far. Its covered in SIG Koverall, and all SIG dope. I learned the hard way, start with Nitrate dope, then switch to Butyrate. I started with Butyrate instead and it takes way too many coats for a nice finish, which is why it is taking so long to get done. The white was sprayed on and came out flat, so am going to hit it with a coat or two of clear to make it all the same sheen, then rub it down a bit with auto polish.

I am not one for "traditional" paint schemes, I like to be different so I came up with that design on the fly, I wanted the Red White and Blue colors from the start, and the design just came to me as I started looking at it, then laid out the tape and started painting. The engine will be an OS 70(unless I find a nice twin on the cheap before cutting the cowl). Other than that nothing special being done on it. I havent done any mods to it either, though I am considering a different hinging technique for the door, not liking how it looks with the kit way of doing it.

The things left to do, I have to finish covering the window door, clear coat the fuse and under the wings, install the links for the tail, and put the glass in. The wings need the servos installed, ailerons hinged, and struts painted. Engine just needs the cable soldered and hooked up. last thing is the cowl and its ready to fly.
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Old 08-05-2014, 12:42 PM
  #2515  
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Why didn't you invert the engine and save the cowling? I have an old Saito .80 in my 1/5 SIG Cub and it fits nicely. Thanks to a 90 degree adapter (from a Saito twin) the exhaust exits the bottom with a stock pipe and the muffler runs along the belly.
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Old 08-05-2014, 01:16 PM
  #2516  
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Originally Posted by acdii View Post
The engine will be an OS 70(unless I find a nice twin on the cheap before cutting the cowl)
That would look nice with a Saito FA-90TS up front, but they're not cheap, even on ebay... there's a FA90T on ebay for $113, 5 bids... but that's the one with the shared crank journal; don't like those as much... the FA-90TS is a true staggered horizontally opposed engine, but damn near a grand if you want one bad enough.


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Old 08-05-2014, 02:50 PM
  #2517  
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Originally Posted by acdii View Post
I am not one for "traditional" paint schemes, I like to be different so I came up with that design on the fly, I wanted the Red White and Blue colors from the start, and the design just came to me as I started looking at it, then laid out the tape and started painting. The engine will be an OS 70(unless I find a nice twin on the cheap before cutting the cowl). Other than that nothing special being done on it. I haven't done any mods to it either, though I am considering a different hinging technique for the door, not liking how it looks with the kit way of doing it.
Found a RW clipped wing cub with similar colors... I like this color scheme too... checker board would be a PIA to paint.




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Old 08-05-2014, 02:58 PM
  #2518  
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I hear ya there.
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Old 08-05-2014, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerInOKC View Post
Why didn't you invert the engine and save the cowling? I have an old Saito .80 in my 1/5 SIG Cub and it fits nicely. Thanks to a 90 degree adapter (from a Saito twin) the exhaust exits the bottom with a stock pipe and the muffler runs along the belly.
I did exactly the same thing W/an FA-91S. Only the front of the rocker covers protrude.
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Old 08-05-2014, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by acerc View Post
I hear ya there.
I know those wings are for a biplane... I want to say pitts, but I'm always wrong... quite a fare sized one at that !!


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Old 08-05-2014, 04:12 PM
  #2521  
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Originally Posted by John_M_ View Post
Found a RW clipped wing cub with similar colors... I like this color scheme too... checker board would be a PIA to paint.




John M,
Having done some custom paint in my day, I would say that pattern wouldn't seem to be so hard to do. First mask off a lattice pattern for the 1st color. Paint & unmask. Then just mask off the same lattice pattern covering the 1st color, then shoot the 2nd color. If you study the way the pattern colors alternate it becomes a little clearer.

A coat of clear between the 2 patterns would probably be a good idea.
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Old 08-05-2014, 06:02 PM
  #2522  
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Originally Posted by John_M_ View Post
I know those wings are for a biplane... I want to say pitts, but I'm always wrong... quite a fare sized one at that !!


John M,
Yep. A 46% Pitts. Here is the thread if interested. I am in the paint process now. Pitts S1-S by EMHW
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Old 08-05-2014, 11:09 PM
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Looked in on your S1-S. VERY nice build! Now I know what it would look like if a Edge 540 and a Pitts 12-S got together and had a baby...

I dunno; clearly the S1-S is a performer... but dang, it hurts my heart to see the Pitts body lines without the NACA Cowling. It reminds me of this thing they had in the JC Whiplash catalog in the 80s; a faux Rolls-Royce "Hood" to put on your VW Beetle in place of the original front-end trunklid. It feels the same; it's just somehow... wrong. Not of the same spirit.

I know you'll love it every much as I love my little Python, though! You sure wouldn't have spent this much time building it!

[EDIT]

I'm sorry; I honestly didn't mean that to be as mean as it sounds. I love my little Python fiercely, and I guess I'm just not good at sharing the love. Please see my comments on your build thread and know I mean no ill-will. Quite the contrary. Congratulations!

Also, I went looking for some pics of the Valach 170 you're using and stumbled across this; a bench test of a Czech manufactured 170 4-Cylinder. It's a pretty beast and I just had to share!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=B3wvj3evc1E [/EDIT]


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Old 08-06-2014, 05:52 AM
  #2524  
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Originally Posted by SrTelemaster150 View Post
I did exactly the same thing W/an FA-91S. Only the front of the rocker covers protrude.
I did have to make two small holes to clear the rockers too but it look good have those two chrome bumps on the chin. At least it looked better than having a cylinder head sticking out the side.
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Old 08-06-2014, 01:40 PM
  #2525  
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While I'm waiting for my engine to arrive... I thought I'd add a step to the super cub and do a few other things to personalize it... the rear landing gear mount gets in the way of the step mount under the belly, so I had to compensate some, but it worked out ok.

It is what its is... mine came from the 4 fingered china-men factory.. I wished I had sent the whole thing back for a complete replacement... after getting the wing damage sorted out... I notice some rear bulkheads in the tail had some slight damage, and the plastic pull - pull tubes were loose at the exits... so I just went ahead and pulled the covering off the bottom of the fuse, made the repairs and recovered with some white ultracote... is that a dark cloud over my head? sure looks like it.... should be ready to for the maiden flight soon... just waiting for that dark cloud to move, lol.


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